Shortlived Boxster engines survey

[arthrodriver]

Earlier in this thread a gentleman spoke about familiarity with the ball bearing causing the IMS problem. I was poking around and found a reliability site on ball bearing failures. Yikes. At the component level there are multiple sources of problems: Inadequate shaft surface finish, defective race grinding, ball separation defective, bad seals,on and on. These things seem fragile. Then there's installation...

The electric motor usage is the main source of these studies with 3 axis accelerometers providing vibration wave forms which are compared against expected results. In that industry the little sensors are standard products. Interaction of the ball bearing components can accelerate their own failure, harmonics etc, etc ( I am not an engineer).

So the gentleman who wondered why Porsche, why? I second. Along the trail of tears for this engine has there been any attempt to correlate sources of the bearings with failures? From the looks Porsche has been successful running cams right on aluminum where others have failed. Makes one wonder.

[imon_2nd]

Had my new-to-me 2004 S in the shop for IMS, clutch, RMS, etc. Turns out, the engine must have failed while the first owner had it, which was the first 42,000 miles. The second owner had no records from that period when I bought the car Monday with 98K miles. He was not aware that the motor had been replaced in 2006. If the IMS fails in the 2006 motor, the engine has to be split open to replace it. So, I'll live with it.

BTW, the clutch plate was at about 50% wear and the throw-out bearing was shot. Otherwise, everything else about the car checked out fine.

[fooddrink]

thanks for sharing details, will be helpful to green hand like me

[Cbonilla]

Not a shortlived failure, but to me any such failure is short lived in a car like this, at least below 200k miles, especially if its a known weak point

2003 Boxster S, 105k miles
Tiptronic (so I never had the chance to address it at a reasonable cost as the trans has never ben out of the car)
Regularly serviced

Never tracked, owned it since it was 9 months old with 6k miles.

IMS failure (in the opinion of my shop, the engine hasn't been torn down)

Problem started with a horrendous clatter that I assume was the pistons meeitng the valves. Oil spewed out of the engine and onto the ground

Pissed at the class action settlement that Porsche agreed to (I'm sure the lawyers got paid handsomly) that allowed these cars to stay on the road and only be repaired after they failed within a short mileage window. Shameful

Happened a month ago, still deciding what course to take -- do I throw good money after bad?

Carlos

[hrt1009]

Greetings from Downunder.

I have looked through the previous pages on this thread and read a number of forums related to IMS failures. But, I have not come across any posts which deal with the incidence of IMS failure vs the driving habits of the owners.

Is there any information on whether engines allowed to spin freely but, kept below say 4000 RPM are more or less prone to IMS failures than engines that are pushed hard?

[mikefocke]

Originally Posted by hrt1009

Greetings from Downunder.

I have looked through the previous pages on this thread and read a number of forums related to IMS failures. But, I have not come across any posts which deal with the incidence of IMS failure vs the driving habits of the owners.

Is there any information on whether engines allowed to spin freely but, kept below say 4000 RPM are more or less prone to IMS failures than engines that are pushed hard?

Speculation is that spun hard once warm is better as it forces more oil, and the owners tend to more frequently change the oil.

Good oil, and no less than half the recommended interval.

[ymkmkrz]

I have owned 3 M96 cars. I still have two of them. Never experienced an engine failure on any of them. jake raby, flat 6 innovations,
Solved the IMS issue in a
Variety of ways culminating in his end all upgrade away from bearings. Visit his website where you can read anything and everything you would ever
Need to know.

It is possible to buy an 8k m96 car, Spend 4k on it and have a reliable Porsche for as ling as you want ti keep it. Or you can go the cheaper route and change to an upgraded bearing every time you need a clutch as a
Maintenance item. Either way the problem is easily resolved.


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[EdHunter]

Hi all,

I am also brand new to the forum. Two weeks ago I purchased an '04 Boxster S 550 Spyder 50th anniversary edition from a Porsche dealership for slightly less than $19000, 32k miles. Apparently there were only 1953 of these 550 Spyder 50th anniversary edition models manufactured, and only 500 were sold in the US. The car has obviously been immaculately maintained, looks fantastic and drives like a dream. The deal seemed almost too good to be true. With all things that seem too good to be true there's usually a catch, and after searching around on the internet I've discovered what that catch is.

From my research it seems the 2001-2005 Boxsters have the highest rate of IMS failure, and the rate of failure in the '04 50th anniversary edition Boxsters and 911s is exceptionally high. Basically it seems it's not a question of if the IMS failure will occur, but when. Basically this car is a ticking time bomb that could blow up at any time. I was a tad irked at the dealership's failure to disclose the known manufacturing defect in these engines to me at the time of purchase, but in hindsight not surprised.

So after some deliberation, I've elected to have the replacement LN bearings installed, and while they are doing the replacement the RMS seal will be replaced and the oil changed. Total cost of doing this is $2500, which seems a worthwhile investment to me. The car is back at the dealership now as I write this having this work done. I'm also in the process of purchasing a 5 year extended warranty on the power train, at a total cost of $3400.

I have to say that it's really a shame to find out that such a beautiful car that's such a blast to drive, made by such a premier brand name as Porsche, has such a disastrous design flaw and checkered history. It's been even more dismaying to read about Porsche's callous response to those affected by the catastrophic failure of these engines out of warranty. Certainly has negatively affected my opinion of the brand name. Hopefully, after the bearing replacement I'll be able to enjoy driving the car worry free for years to come, but this will always stay in the back of my mind. As they say, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

[Brian in Tucson]

Originally Posted by EdHunter

Hi all,

I am also brand new to the forum. Two weeks ago I purchased an '04 Boxster S 550 Spyder 50th anniversary edition from a Porsche dealership for slightly less than $19000, 32k miles. Apparently there were only 1953 of these 550 Spyder 50th anniversary edition models manufactured, and only 500 were sold in the US. The car has obviously been immaculately maintained, looks fantastic and drives like a dream. The deal seemed almost too good to be true. With all things that seem too good to be true there's usually a catch, and after searching around on the internet I've discovered what that catch is.

From my research it seems the 2001-2005 Boxsters have the highest rate of IMS failure, and the rate of failure in the '04 50th anniversary edition Boxsters and 911s is exceptionally high. Basically it seems it's not a question of if the IMS failure will occur, but when. Basically this car is a ticking time bomb that could blow up at any time. I was a tad irked at the dealership's failure to disclose the known manufacturing defect in these engines to me at the time of purchase, but in hindsight not surprised.

So after some deliberation, I've elected to have the replacement LN bearings installed, and while they are doing the replacement the RMS seal will be replaced and the oil changed. Total cost of doing this is $2500, which seems a worthwhile investment to me. The car is back at the dealership now as I write this having this work done. I'm also in the process of purchasing a 5 year extended warranty on the power train, at a total cost of $3400.

I have to say that it's really a shame to find out that such a beautiful car that's such a blast to drive, made by such a premier brand name as Porsche, has such a disastrous design flaw and checkered history. It's been even more dismaying to read about Porsche's callous response to those affected by the catastrophic failure of these engines out of warranty. Certainly has negatively affected my opinion of the brand name. Hopefully, after the bearing replacement I'll be able to enjoy driving the car worry free for years to come, but this will always stay in the back of my mind. As they say, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

Dream on, Ed.

[Brian in Tucson]

I'm starting the process of replacing the engine in my 01 Boxster base. Replacing the 2.7 with another 2.7 from the same era.

My current engine is severely wounded because of the previous owner putting off repairs and maintenance and severely overheating the engine. It leaks oil and smokes. I got mine for cheap $3300, but it had a plethora of problems that slowly I've been correcting. The engine I'm putting in is a 2000, lately in a 2002. It's one of those engines that Porsche rebuilt with a beefed up IMS, and I've replaced the RMS and the front crankseal. About 60K on the engine since the rebuild. I've also done the water pump. And it will be getting headers and a new rear exhaust which will make it a true dual ex. system. And maybe a spin on filter adapter. Amazing all the spendy goodies you can throw at these engines.

It's a project car, it needs new struts and the cv joints need to be cleaned, repacked and new boots installed. But it has good interior, a relatively new top, and a paint job.

[algiorda]

Welcome to the club Ed.

I also have a '04 BSSE and was in the same exact position as you. You are doing the right thing. I had my RMS, IMS, and AOS replaced a little over a month ago with 53k miles on the car.

I paid the same for my car as you. The question is; what is our car worth now with this work done? I've seen some estimates as high as $25k for a primo maintained BSSE.

[EdHunter]

Hello and thanks, algiorda. That's an interesting question, it does seem like installing the replacement bearings and registering the installation with LN should increase the value of the vehicle to some degree, since the IMS flaw is the reason these vehicles depreciated so much to begin with. By how much it increases the value I'm not sure, but considering that these '04 BSSE's are rare and any limited edition Porsche model should in theory be collectible and sought after, I would have to think your estimate is probably accurate. Maybe even conservative, since there's probably a good deal fewer of these remaining that are still in good condition and have intact original engines than there were ten years ago.

[Oldcarguy]

Hi Ed,

Welcome from another fellow 550 Anniversary owner! If you would like, be sure give us some info and a pic or two in our 550 Anniversary thread:

Official 2004 Boxster S 550 Anniversary Edition thread

Looking forward to hearing more from you in the forums. Enjoy your new ride

Originally Posted by EdHunter

Hello and thanks, algiorda. That's an interesting question, it does seem like installing the replacement bearings and registering the installation with LN should increase the value of the vehicle to some degree, since the IMS flaw is the reason these vehicles depreciated so much to begin with. By how much it increases the value I'm not sure, but considering that these '04 BSSE's are rare and any limited edition Porsche model should in theory be collectible and sought after, I would have to think your estimate is probably accurate. Maybe even conservative, since there's probably a good deal fewer of these remaining that are still in good condition and have intact original engines than there were ten years ago.

[algiorda]

I've seen quite a few Mid-twenties prices for the BSSE. I've also seen some 2004's which claim they are Special Editions, but they are Black body, black interior. I thought the BSSE only came in GT Metallic?

https://www.carsforsale.com/vehicle/details/25973290

https://www.carsforsale.com/vehicle/details/190326 ??? is this a BSSE?

[EdHunter]

That's correct, the BSSE only came in GT silver. So I'm highly doubtful that the bottom one is a BSSE. Plus the wheels are wrong, the wheels on BSSE's should be seal grey. The top one looks like it probably is one. The only way to really be certain is to look for the commemorative BSSE batwing plate on the center console with the production number on it. If it doesn't have one of those, it's not a BSSE.

[orlando]

Hate to see all these engines go down. I had a boxer with only 79k on it that wen't down on me. Pissed me off because I just got the windows tinted on it.

[jccash]

175,000 miles on my 99 986. Good luck with your project mine needs a paint job looking for a place in the Orlando area that’s good and cheap I’m ok with slow


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[BrakeExpert]

I wanted to say this to the engineers and to the consumers, us. The Boxster is a fun car to drive, and as of right now, one of the best bang per buck cars you can buy for the fun. One with a ripped rear window will sell as low as 5k, and if the IMS bearing doesnt go, awesome.

The IMS bearing if you ask me never should have been designed from conception. My thoughts on the new ferrari transmissions were the same, a bad idea from the get go. Ferrari didn't wanna raise the engine to alter the cneter of mass so they have an engine with a transmission on the rear AND FRONT of it, the front one only working with 4 gears. Sounds crazy, right? And as the 3 crazy guys on top gear proved on less-than-asphalt, had major problems with its design.

So thus is the IMS bearing. At its core, its a shaft located under the crankshaft, and thus from designing the engine, shoving the crankshaft UP, ie higher center of gravity. from 'racecar' perspective, this is thus bad. What gets me is that, annoying as it is, Ford's 4.0L v6 is considered a pain because its got both a front and rear timing chain. but it works. I see no reason why Porsche didn't put a gear on the end of the crankshaft and use that to run the chain. The IMS is a part inside the engine that didn't need to be there. Its not like say a Honda f-series/k-series balance shaft, and those are used on SOME models, not all, and are removed by any track racer at the beginning of the engine-modification process. In my opinion, a shaft below the crankshaft was a bad idea conceptually. I'm sure this was discussed but I wanted to state my opinion as a Boxster lover, a guy who loves to tinker, a master mechanic, a speeder and a cruiser.

I would also attack Porsche's idea behind the integration of the valve cover and cam caps into one piece as a dumb idea, questioning how much money they saved in a gasket and additional several bolts. Granted we let this one go because Porsche's loose oil, they just always have, whether its on the floor or out the tailpipe, tis a way of life. but an oil leak can be forgiven, theres not a moment where its one drop too low and immediatly can blow your engine up (okay yes there is but there's a dipstick.)

Upon learning about this bearing, I did what others do. Freaked out and started driving while keeping the RPM above 2500 whenever possible. If I was cruising at 45mph in 5th, my mind would say "oh, a 986 engine" and id downshift to 4th. Gotta keep the oil spitting onto the bearing seal so it doesn't dry out. And this becomes commonplace. And the other side of my mind says...would it have been so hard to run a single chain, or two overlapping ones, or a rear chain off a crank cog, or a big fat roller bearing lubed by engine oil, or a timing belt, gears, freakin pushrods, there are a million other ways and so many more cars NOT doing this and they're so much more reliable. It woulda been more conventional, cheaper, lighter, the list goes on and I wanna talk to the engineer who said this was a smarter idea than any other technology because...we can sell more aftermarket engines? Whatever the reason, mister engineer, stop making engines.

Also for a 2.5L this engine is really heavy. Rant over and out.

[thstone]

After replacing my engine 4 times, I can confidently say that you can have a shop replace a 2.5L engine for less than $4,000. You just have to be a careful buyer.

2.5L engines with 90K miles can be purchased on eBay for $2500 or less. I have paid $1,850, $2,250, and $2,475 for my replacements.

I just checked eBay and there is a 91K mile 2.5L engine listed for $2200 + $250 shipping. You can easily get this for $2,250 with shipping.

Plan on $500 for consumables/parts and $1250 to swap the engines. For an experienced shop that knows what they're doing, its an 8-10 hour job and should be done in 2-3 days. When I had my last engine swapped in Nov, 2018, my local shop had the old engine completely removed in about 2 hrs!

If you want to keep the car, $4K is pretty cheap to extend the life of your existing Boxster for another 75,000-100,000 miles.

If you want to sell the car, putting $4K into a what is now a $3K car (because of the failed engine) will be pretty much break even.

Of course, if you can DIY the engine swap, then you're that much further ahead.

[HumbleBumble]

My 2000 986S developed a crack in 4-6 side head (drivers side) at 69k. The car never overheated, so I was somewhat perplexed that this could happen. Most likely a casting flaw which took it's time to show itself. I decided to go ahead and do the repair, which involved finding a used head and having it reconditioned, as well as having the coolant system flushed and cleaned. All told it came to about $8,500. Fingers crossed the other side is good.