Shortlived Boxster engines survey - Page 6 - 986 Forum

seningen · 07-15-2010, 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clickman

Seems odd that a porous block would wait 132k before starting to leak. The porosity must have led to a crack.

It is possible it has a cracked cylinder head
or a freeze plug popped.

it is also possible that the oil cooler is leaking.

it is possible that one of the gaskets between the block halves is leaking.

it is possible that the head bolts have stretched and there is a head gasket leak.

many things could cause intermix.

mike

ALarracuente · 08-30-2010, 07:28 PM

Hello Guys:
Avid reader, newbie poster. Here's my story. A little long but I assure you, worth reading, specially for those of you with a blown engine in your Boxster.

A poor man’s dream…
I bought my 99 Boxster back in 2006, 1 day before turning 40 (talk ‘bout midlife crisis). The odo read 8148k miles, hard top, all original, for only $23K. Not bad, considering that cars are normally 40% more expensive here in Puerto Rico than in the states. One owner (a nice mid-aged lady), all maintenance records, driven 3-5 miles a day... Nevertheless, the low mileage should have raised a big ol' flag in my mind but, I was so impressed with the condition of the car that went ahead with the purchase. I drove the card HARD for the next 18K miles and enjoyed the heck out of it. The best car I’ve ever driven.

The nightmare begins…
October 2009 and 26K+ on the odometer: I stopped for lunch for about an hour after a 2 hour traffic jam in 90+ degree weather. The car did not overheat or nothing. As I was starting the engine, it turned for what it seemed a turn or two and then heard a muffled clunk from behind seat. After that, the engine would not turn anymore. Suspecting battery/starter issues, tried to push-start but the car would come to a halt as soon as I left the clutch out, ouch.... Having blown plenty of VW engines before, had a feeling of de-ja-vu. Towed the car back home and started looking for the culprit…
Checked battery and starter, took off serpentine belt, tried to turn engine by hand and was not able to go past 1/4 turn either way, checked for bent valves with a probe, all good. Damn, looking more and more like internal damage. Not looking good for Porsche’s reputation. It was Friday and I knew how I would spend the rest of my weekends to come.

Light at the end of the tunnel…
Saturday: Got the engine out in less than 3 hours with help from my brother (an experienced tool-dye tech later found to be of great use making special Porsche tools

) and started tearing down. Took off the heads, split the crankcase halves and there it was. Cylinder #1 sleeve had slipped. Good news though, since the failure happened while cranking the engine, it did not exploded like a grenade. Neither the rod, crank or case appeared had sustained major damage and seemed ‘rebuildable. I guess I was lucky after reading other stories on the Internet.
I did the proper research to see the way to go with it. I even considered parting the car out in Ebay and other forums after getting the dealers quote of (12K for a reconditioned engine or 20K new one) but, love for the car and my wife’s confidence in my mechanical abilities kept me from it. Finally, chose to send the block to Charles Navarro from LN Engineering and put brand new Nickies and JE pistons on it. Charles suggested going all the way to 2.9L with the addition of a 996 crank, around $1K more for a good core but well worth it. He also offered me a discount on IMS and thermostat upgrade which seemed appropriate and well worth the price. All in all, the process of sending the block to Charles, and getting it back took 3 months. The total cost for LN’s work was $5443.03 +SH. This included 89mm Nickies with JE pistons (12:1), upgraded IMS, billet IMS hub, billet IMS tensioner, 78mm 996 crank, a 160F thermostat and housing and magnetic drain plug. My brother, an experienced machinist and self-made mech engineer, was very impressed with LN’s machine work and quality of parts used like the JE Pistons.
Additional parts like bearings, cylinder head gaskets, bolts, engine gasket set, oil, fluids, etc. the total cost of the rebuild ran up to $6700. The project took me around 12 labor hours of tear-down and 24-30 hours of engine assembly. Troubleshooting chain timing issues took me another 12 hours work. I actually had the cams 180 off. Guys, remember to rotate the engine 180 before switching to the other head, LOL.

Riding to the sunset…
In the end, the engine has over 7K miles on it and running WAY stronger than new. Oil changes (three since the rebuild) look normal with little or no metal particles. MPG are aroud 25-27 highway, not bad for Puerto Rico traffic and weather. I’ve clocked 0-60 time in the low 5’s (2001 ‘S’ territory) and lower-end torque is greatly improved over 2.5 stock. I have a Dyno test scheduled next week (now that the break in period is over) to see how it measures against stock numbers. I bet anything it has to be around 240-250 to the wheels! Sure feels like it.
For those of you considering rebuilding a blown-up Boxster engine, there’s my story. Let it be a example that Boxster engines can be rebuild with basic VW engine rebuild experience, a budget, patience and a supporting wife, a Porsche shop manual, a good set of metric wrenches and, an ingenious T&D tech brother to help you make any special tool you may need.

Good night and good luck,
Fred Larracuente
Guaynabo, Puerto Rico

sturgedm · 09-12-2010, 06:23 AM

I did report this to this forum way back in 2005 when it happened. But here we go again .... my 1999 boxster from the non-german assembly plant (finland i think) blew up. I took into Scotsdale Porsche in AZ they said the engine had a "hole in it" i assume thet ment the engine pushed the cylinder sleeve though the block or head or something like that.

I let the car sit for 2 years and then let Brandywine Porsche in Newtown Pa. install a factor fresh Porsche re-built engine. They offered to install a rebuilt 3.4 instead of standard 2.5. At the time Eric Delahaye managed Brandywine Porsche service - this guy is a genius and a true proffesional.

Ok, this part breaks my heart, but here goes .... To purchase and install the 3.4 was $20,000.00 to purchase and install the 2.5 was $9,000.00. Porsche N.A. offered no, i repeat NO, help.

I could not afford to do the 3.4 so I just did the 2.5 standard engine. Final bill was more like $12,000.00 due to other work i had done when engine was out.

Now with that said the factory rebuilt engine pulls better than the original and i am very happy with the project (allthough i wish i did the 3.4).

Again Porsche N.A. did not offer any help, as a life long Porsche owner (this is my 3rd Porsche) i doubt i'll buy another due to this experence. But i will always keep this 986 at this point i am committed finacially to it - and want to leave it to my daughter.

I am spec'ing out a Viper for my next car .....

Bobiam · 09-12-2010, 06:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sturgedm

I did report this to this forum way back in 2005 when it happened. But here we go again .... my 1999 boxster from the non-german assembly plant (finland i think) blew up. I took into Scotsdale Porsche in AZ they said the engine had a "hole in it" i assume thet ment the engine pushed the cylinder sleeve though the block or head or something like that.

I let the car sit for 2 years and then let Brandywine Porsche in Newtown Pa. install a factor fresh Porsche re-built engine. They offered to install a rebuilt 3.4 instead of standard 2.5. At the time Eric Delahaye managed Brandywine Porsche service - this guy is a genius and a true proffesional.

Ok, this part breaks my heart, but here goes .... To purchase and install the 3.4 was $20,000.00 to purchase and install the 2.5 was $9,000.00. Porsche N.A. offered no, i repeat NO, help.

I could not afford to do the 3.4 so I just did the 2.5 standard engine. Final bill was more like $12,000.00 due to other work i had done when engine was out.

Now with that said the factory rebuilt engine pulls better than the original and i am very happy with the project (allthough i wish i did the 3.4).

Again Porsche N.A. did not offer any help, as a life long Porsche owner (this is my 3rd Porsche) i doubt i'll buy another due to this experence. But i will always keep this 986 at this point i am committed finacially to it - and want to leave it to my daughter.

I am spec'ing out a Viper for my next car .....

So those prices are several years old and it would be worse now!

Re Viper, didn't I just read that they were being discontinued???

ALarracuente · 09-12-2010, 11:06 AM

I agree with Sturgedm. Is a pity that Porsche did nothing to help in your case or mine. I got the 'you r just a poor boy that got a Porsche and don't have the money to let us maintain it for you so, go away' treatment when I went to the local dealer for info and advice. Needless to say, I will NEVER buy a brand-new Porsche nor take my car to them for service.

My Boxster is a Stuggart built so I do not think is related to where they were assembled. According to Charles Navarro, and other experts, sub-standard manufacturing and engineering decisions are a major factor on 996 engine failures. I'll bet the 'nickies' I installed on my engine will way outlast any OEM cylinder sleeves out there. the JE pistons look way better quality than OEM too.

Guys, my message is that, a full rebuild can be done for fewer than 7K if you do the work yourself and keep everything OEM, maybe a little more depending if you take the opportunity to upgrade a thing or two. The main hurdle you will have is to build or acquire the Porsche special tools #9612 and others (see list at http://www.baumtools.com/pdf/porsche_timing_tools.pdf). Aside from the 9612 and the cam tensioner tools, my brother built all of the tools for me fairly easily. The one you cannot go without is the piston pin and clip installing tools (9608 & 02). The cam alignment I did it by 'feel'. So far, I put over 8K miles on it with no issues.

I love Porsche cars, always will, but don't like Porsche 'the company' very much right now...

Regards,
Fred

JoeBoxer02 · 09-17-2010, 07:53 PM

I bought my Boxster 02 a few months ago, It currently has about 64,000 kilometers.. I was just reading about all those engine problems. Thousands of dollars in repairs, whoa .. what did I get myself into ??

Is there any preventive measures I can do to reduce the risk. What years were affected? Do they all have that porous engine block ? What problems happen before the " BIG ONE" occurs !! What do I have to look for?

Bobiam · 09-18-2010, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeBoxer02

I bought my Boxster 02 a few months ago, It currently has about 64,000 kilometers.. I was just reading about all those engine problems. Thousands of dollars in repairs, whoa .. what did I get myself into ??

Is there any preventive measures I can do to reduce the risk. What years were affected? Do they all have that porous engine block ? What problems happen before the " BIG ONE" occurs !! What do I have to look for?

According to my expert Porsche mechanics, there will be metal fragments in the oil filter prior to an IMS bearing failure. Always worth tearing apart the filter to inspect it. If found, stop driving it and do an immediate IMS shaft bearing replacement.

Jake Raby · 09-19-2010, 08:17 AM

Yesterday Charles and I just finished our 3rd M96 101 Engine Assembly class for the year.. So far this year 18 students have gotten the direct hands on instruction and experience required to assemble the M96 engine correctly the first time.

My focus is assisting the DIY efforts more so than shops in 2011, the cars are no longer worth the 100.00/hr+ labor rates to assemble or repair an engine. I have devised a support program for the DIY efforts. You'll like it.

Paul · 10-06-2010, 06:32 PM

Tell us more!

Paul · 10-15-2010, 06:26 PM

For the first time in over 36 years of Porsche ownership, I have finally had an engine failure. Upon trying to start my 01 a few mornings ago, it turned about 2 or 3 times normally then spun free. At first I thought it was the starter drive, but upon observing the front pulley turn when bumping the starter, the timing must have slipped. Glad it happened in my garage and not on our recent 2400 trip! Absolutely no indication before it happened,even a recent oil analysis and a good look at the oil filter showed nothing.

My plan is to tear it down and see if I can fix it, if not time for a 3.8!!!

Very interested in teardown, repair, and reassembly instructions.

Paul · 11-19-2010, 06:54 PM

Jake,

Based on my description above, what do you think I'll find when I finally find the time to work on one of my cars (probably in January)?

What would you check first?

Since everything but the spark plugs and serpertine belt are original on the 2.7, it will need at least a flywheel, clutch set, IMS, RMS, water pump, and AOS.

I've found a new 3.8 X51 for around 12k, but Porsche will not cover it with the 2 year warranty unless it is installed in car that originally had a 3.8 and only if it was done at a Porsche dealer. So I can understand and support your stance on warranties!

WalterB · 11-20-2010, 07:26 PM

Does anyone know of a site that shows the exterior parts? The exterior black guards located in the front portion of the rear wheel well are broken and i need a replacement. Any help?

danyl55 · 12-31-2010, 07:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob O

While it's sad and very depressing to read about engine failures on our cars (especially ones with so few miles), one must keep in mind that we haven't heard from the thousands of others with no problems at all. As is ALWAYS the case with these type of forums. One only hears about the problem children and not the A students. Like mine for instance. 58,000 miles and the only issues with it so far have been an ignition switch failure ($29 diy fix with an audi switch from the local dealer) and a short in the driver's seat heater (not fixed yet simply because it doesn't bother me and isn't causing any other problems). Otherwise its' been trouble free. No MAF issue, no top issues, no broken chain tensioners (oh wait.. that was the 911!!) nothing. Change the oil, brake pads, and various filters, get new tires occasionally and that's about it. And yes.. I take it to the track. (ok.. so I've probably jinxed myself)

It's truly sad and I sympathize with those who have had engine failures. Unfortunately, there's no way at all to determine the actual failure rate. We don't know if its .0005% or 5%. Of the thousands and thousands of Boxsters sold, how many owners post here and on the other forums? Not that many. And Porsche won't release any info about failures. Any "surveys" one might see on the net are suspect at best, and probably (certainly??) not statistically sound. They're interesting to read but, sadly once again, one can't draw any valid conclusioins from them. If only........................

Maybe we should start a thread about our UNbroken Boxsters.

Bob

good idea Bob--my 97 has 120k and only a water pump replaced and routine maint. I don't track the car--just enjoy the hell out of it in the twisty mountains.

danyl55 · 12-31-2010, 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobiam

According to my expert Porsche mechanics, there will be metal fragments in the oil filter prior to an IMS bearing failure. Always worth tearing apart the filter to inspect it. If found, stop driving it and do an immediate IMS shaft bearing replacement.

if you find metal fragments in your oil filter I think I'd do more than an IMS--just saying--

Oaktown 986 · 12-31-2010, 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by danyl55

good idea Bob--my 97 has 120k and only a water pump replaced and routine maint. I don't track the car--just enjoy the hell out of it in the twisty mountains.

Amen brotha... just hit 95k with nothing but standard maintenance for an 11 year old car.

Frank M · 12-31-2010, 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wake&moto

What extended warranties, if any, will pay to fix the said problems addressed in this thread?

this is how some may operate:

many aftermarket warranties cover only lubricated parts. the IMS is a lubricated part. It is sealed with it's internal lubrication. however the seal would not be covered. once the seal disintegrates the bearing fails. DENIED

if there is a lubricated part failure then proof or evidence of regular lubrication must be provided.
in one example of a failed component a blued or black color indicate no lube.

mtinrunner · 01-01-2011, 02:23 PM

Our 2000 S with the 3.2 failed at 54K with a mixing problem. It wasn't opened up but was thought to be a cracked case because of where the water was dripping into the oil pan. I didn't bother with Porsche on a 10 year old car. Heck the stealership didn't even know what was wrong with it. They even changed the coolant bottle which wasn't leaking hoping for a miracle. We took it back twice and the temp light began flashing again the next day. They wanted $7500 to open it up without a clue as to what was wrong. Replaced it last week with another 3.2 with 32K miles, new mount, new clutch, tune for 7K. I hope it lasts a little longer.

clickman · 01-01-2011, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mtinrunner

Our 2000 S with the 3.2 failed at 54K with a mixing problem. It wasn't opened up but was thought to be a cracked case because of where the water was dripping into the oil pan. I didn't bother with Porsche on a 10 year old car. Heck the stealership didn't even know what was wrong with it. They even changed the coolant bottle which wasn't leaking hoping for a miracle. We took it back twice and the temp light began flashing again the next day. They wanted $7500 to open it up without a clue as to what was wrong. Replaced it last week with another 3.2 with 32K miles, new mount, new clutch, tune for 7K. I hope it lasts a little longer.

Where did the "new" 3.2 come from? Had it been rebuilt? Had any of the failure modes been addressed?

mtinrunner · 01-02-2011, 09:25 PM

Norm, the transplant came from a wreck. hadn't been worked on. I was quite surprised the mount was shot already as well as the fact the clutch was toast on my car with 54K miles and my wife putting on most of those miles. I'm not sure what you mean by failure modes. It was looked at by several mechanics and deemed not to be worth opening up. It wouldn't maintain coolant pressure while sitting and coolant leaked into the oil pan. From where the leak was coming it was deduced that it had to be from a crack in the case. A quarter inch metal chunk was found in the oil pan, its origin unknown. The car never overheated.

clickman · 01-02-2011, 11:19 PM

You said when you put the replacement engine in you did the engine mount, clutch and "tune"(?).

I was wondering if that replacement engine had anything done to it before you put it in your car. Things that get talked about on M96 forums all the time, like replacing the intermediate shaft bearing and rear main seal. If not, why. Thanks.