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Old 04-23-2019, 01:40 AM   #1
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One more battery thread..

I purchased a Odessey PC925 last summer in my quest to reduce weight. It worked out great, however during the winter I had a few weeks without a battery tender and it seems I managed to kill the battery. It was completely empty, didn't take charging in the beginning but after a few attempts it came back to Life. Now it works, but it can only take approx 2 days before it needs recharing again, so soon or later I will get stranded.

So, Im thinking about taking the leap to a Lithium battery, if I need to invest in a new battery again I might just as well try to cut even more weight.
Im looking into the Antigravity ATX30, given the data it looks like it should at least be in par with the PC925. (880ca / 30ah vs 925ca / 28ah for the PC925)

So, before I place the order Id would love to get your view..
-Is there any way to save the PC925?
-Is it reasonable to Think that the ATX30 will work?


The car is a combined DD/Track car, and I am aware of battery consumption, I never run stereo or such with the engine off.
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Old 04-23-2019, 05:25 AM   #2
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I just saw an ad for the Antigravity lithium battery in this month's PCA magazine. I'm curious to know if a CTEK 3300 battery maintainer will work with it.
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Old 04-23-2019, 07:18 AM   #3
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Just be aware that these batteries are rated in "cranking amps" not the industry standard "cold cranking amps".
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Old 04-23-2019, 08:56 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by Robert986 View Post
So, before I place the order Id would love to get your view..
-Is there any way to save the PC925?
-Is it reasonable to Think that the ATX30 will work?

The car is a combined DD/Track car, and I am aware of battery consumption, I never run stereo or such with the engine off.
Without know your duty/usage as a DD you might be able to get by BUT the juice probably ain't worth the squeeze as in you'll constantly need to keep on a maintainer. A lot is also dependent on what vampire electronics remaining in car. As a dedicated track car, which typically are kept on maintainers when not in use, then absolutely no problem as that's what these batteries are designed for... very low demand cycling.

You might be able to salvage the Odessey w/ a high quality maintainer like the C-Tek 7002 which has a recondition feature.

Good luck
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Old 04-23-2019, 11:27 AM   #5
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Without know your duty/usage as a DD you might be able to get by BUT the juice probably ain't worth the squeeze as in you'll constantly need to keep on a maintainer. A lot is also dependent on what vampire electronics remaining in car. As a dedicated track car, which typically are kept on maintainers when not in use, then absolutely no problem as that's what these batteries are designed for... very low demand cycling.

You might be able to salvage the Odessey w/ a high quality maintainer like the C-Tek 7002 which has a recondition feature.

Good luck
Thanks, you might be totally correct but I dont really understand. If the PC925 have 28ah and the ATX30 30ah, would not the ATX30 last just as long? When my PC925 was fresh it had enough juice. Do I need to calculate ah:s in a different way since it is a Lithium battery?
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Old 04-23-2019, 11:28 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by JFP in PA View Post
Just be aware that these batteries are rated in "cranking amps" not the industry standard "cold cranking amps".

Hmmm wasn't aware, is this related to operating temperature? The box is only used during summer if that helps.
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Old 04-23-2019, 01:43 PM   #7
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Hmmm wasn't aware, is this related to operating temperature? The box is only used during summer if that helps.
Many light weight battery manufacturers do not comply with normal battery industry standards as set by the BCI. One of the ways they hide the overall weakness of these units is by not publishing CCA or cold cranking amps, which is normally measured at 0 degrees F(Cold cranking amps (CCA) is a measurement of the number of amps a battery can deliver at 0 F for 30 seconds and not drop below 7.2 volts.), and instead publish the CA, which is measured at 32F, and obviously a much higher number than the same battery would have at 0F. In battery's, CCA is an accepted indication of the units reserve capabilities under duress.
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Old 04-23-2019, 01:49 PM   #8
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What's the best battery to put in the 2003 986 Boxster S?
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Old 04-23-2019, 02:13 PM   #9
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ETX14

!!!
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Old 04-23-2019, 02:38 PM   #10
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ETX14

!!!
CCA is 220? Is that right?

I was looking Autozone for a battery and their Duralast Platinum CCA is 850.

https://www.autozone.com/batteries-starting-and-charging/battery/duralast-platinum-battery/319458_321493_25697

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Old 04-23-2019, 03:00 PM   #11
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duralast - twice the price and an additional 40 lbs.

the deka is a very light race battery. not something for day to day driving unless minimum accessories and life on a battery tender. having said that, starts my triumph w inline 6, gear reduction starter and 10.5:1 compression like a champ with no trickle charge between starts. good unit and fraction of the price of the branded stuff.
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Old 04-23-2019, 03:52 PM   #12
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duralast - twice the price and an additional 40 lbs.

the deka is a very light race battery. not something for day to day driving unless minimum accessories and life on a battery tender. having said that, starts my triumph w inline 6, gear reduction starter and 10.5:1 compression like a champ with no trickle charge between starts. good unit and fraction of the price of the branded stuff.
My Boxster is my DD, even in the winter time. Had a couple of times over this last winter I had to hook up a battery charger to get the car started. No issues since it's now warmer weather. The Deka battery comes with a 1 year warranty, the Duralast has a 3 year warranty. I'm more concerned about starting the car in the winter time and warranty then I am in weight savings. I imagine the battery in my car right now weighs around the same as the Duralast battery. Yeah losing 40 lbs that's located high in the car would be nice, but not necessary for me, the price is cheaper, but at a cost in CCA and warranty.
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Old 04-23-2019, 04:05 PM   #13
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that's great. i was replying to the op.
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Old 04-28-2019, 06:10 AM   #14
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If the car has a factory stereo amp will a lightweight battery (ETX14) be problematic?
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Old 04-28-2019, 08:45 AM   #15
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I think that you will find that any of the lightweight batteries will have trade-offs. It comes down to what trade-offs you are willing to accept. I think that you will find AGMs, like your Odyssey, can often be damaged if you run them flat to the point where they do not recover. That is why it is crucial to keep a battery maintainer on them. The good part is that they work well in the cold as well as warm weather.

The Antigravity battery that you mention is a Lithium Ion, basically made of the same type of batteries most electric cars are going to, like Teslas. There are a few issues with lithium ion batteries. First, they do not tolerate overcharging whatsoever, that is why the Antigravity batteries have built-in battery management to handle this. Without it, bad things could happen. They also lose a fair amount of CCA in the cold, so they aren't great for a daily driver, unless you live in a very temperate climate (ah, Sweden, I don't think so...). These batteries also can be damaged by super high discharge rate, so if you short the output, even momentarily, you can damage cells.

There are also lithium iron phosphate batteries, like those from Shorai, which I have some experience with as a local shop that races Porsches uses. Lithium iron phosphate batteries are good because they take really high charge rates, tolerate overcharging (so they are inherently safer than lithium ion) as automotive systems run at a higher charge voltage than three fully charged lithium iron phosphate cells, and have high discharge capacity. There are issues though, as they have the same cold weather issues and can also be damaged if they are shorted. Then they are pretty much junk. The Shorai batteries also SHOULD be used with a specific charger that balances the cells, and is required (IMO) if it gets severely discharged. I have had to "restore" a few of these batteries by charging individual cells. The nice thing is that these batteries have a connector made for the specific cell balancing charger that gives access to individual cells. These batteries are good when lightweight is the highest priority, but are not something you just install and forget.

My $.02: I would stay with a traditional lead acid battery unless you are really serious about saving weight and disconnect the battery when it sits for more than a few days. Any lightweight battery will have trade-offs, no matter what the manufacturer claims. In general, you are trading capacity for weight, which is not an issue in powersports applications like motorcycles, etc., which do not have constant loads applied like street cars do. In street cars, you have constant loads that while very small (like 30mA or less) WILL discharge a lightweight battery much faster than a big old lead acid. On a daily driver, sometimes DE/track car I think the trade-offs of going to a lightweight battery aren't worth it. The PITA of having to fish for the frunk release cable just once is enough that I wouldn't do it. I have MUCH better things to spend my money on.

P.S. For BrandyB, the stereo or amplifier doesn't affect the battery unless you are running the stereo with the car off. So, no, the stereo is not an issue when it comes to lightweight batteries.
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Old 04-28-2019, 10:21 AM   #16
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What Qmulus said!!!

+1


He nailed it.
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Old 04-29-2019, 12:08 PM   #17
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Thanks all of you, sorry I havent really had time to follow up on this thread..

-Regarting the The Ah:s I Think if the PC925 is good enough, then the ATX30 should be enough.

-Cold starting: Yes I live in Sweden but I only drive during summer when the weather is ok, so basically its 50+ F. Soo I guess that's not a show stopper.

-Li ion vs Li phosphate.. Good find there Qmulus, I was actually thinking that the Antigravity battery was Li phosphate, but its obviously not..

I Think Qmulus post gave some great insights, I guess the only reasonable thing to do is to stick to using PC925 and maybe make a fixed install of a Ctek or similar charger to make the "Daily" charging a bit more practical.. Actually, now I have charged the PC925 more or less every day the last two weeks and I do feel that it seem to have re gained some of its former capacity, I might be imagining but well see.

Anyway, weight saving is a fun sport, well worth the chase.. At least to me :-)
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Old 04-29-2019, 09:38 PM   #18
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If you happen to have a CTEK charger with a de-sulfation mode, it may bring it back. You can also try bring it in to a Odyssey distributor that has a diagnostic / testing capability. They can run a cycle on it to see if it will come back and also load test it to see where it is at after.

I have ruined a 925 by trickle charging it improperly. Thereafter I have used a CTEK on them all winter and also when the car sits in summer. I think the 925 is the smallest or lightest duty you want to put in a street car.

I had thought that one could let them run flat and let them sit, and then revive later
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