Jake Raby exhaust evaluation

[blackbox]

since I am the person that started this thread about exhaust systems, I find it funny that other members (jake excluded...haha) are more interested in discussing other forums. I think we are getting a little off subject.

Thanks for the quick response Jake. I only asked about testing because I wanted to modify my stock exhaust for sound without loosing any hp or torque. I am currently running a stock 3.2. I look forward to any more test data you can offer.

[Jake Raby]

Originally Posted by blackbox

since I am the person that started this thread about exhaust systems, I find it funny that other members (jake excluded...haha) are more interested in discussing other forums. I think we are getting a little off subject.

Thanks for the quick response Jake. I only asked about testing because I wanted to modify my stock exhaust for sound without loosing any hp or torque. I am currently running a stock 3.2. I look forward to any more test data you can offer.

Sorry to have taken your thread off onto a wild tangent...

None of my developments have been made for sound and they never will be... I only concern myself with gains in torque, HP, Efficiency and RPM range... I always want a car to be faster than it sounds :-)

Sound can be an additional byproduct of other performance attributes, but its not something I shoot for as a particular goal... Otherwise I'd be just as guilty as all the guys building "fart cans" with no development behind them at all...

[Jake Raby]

The joys of crossposting... Of course a "Parrot" ended up posting my comment about armchair wrench turners over at PPBB at the link below..

http://www.ppbb.com/scgi-bin/boards/986/main.pl?read=1527015

I stated exactly what I feel and will stand behind this, because I am confident in the abilities of the components we have developed,and the data I have collected from them through time in the lab and in my personal cars. This data is continually supported by the results that others experience through first hand experience with the components- not assumption. (JFP's experiences are just one example)

Of course I cannot reply to the posts of those on PPBB because the site "expelled" me....

PPBB has a lot of great people, but it also has some people that are totally in left field.. They have no data and probably don't own a tool box, but they'll argue based on something they read in a book...

So when all the traffic from PPBB comes here to look at this post that was linked, just realize that you aren't getting the "Rest of the story" about why I am not welcome to post there... They never did deposit or cash the check that I sent them for sponsorship of the site for some crazy reason.. It's been MIA for over 6 months now.

I was treated like a red headed step child on PPBB and my Clients had their posts deleted for absolutely no reason.. The answer is YES, I am bitter about this! Anyone with a spine would be just as bitter... We are busting our asses to develop and create solutions (and SHARE them) for these engines and what do we get in return??? Pure BS!

Feel free to crosspost this. I stand behind what I post, just like what I develop.

[Stefan (Boston)]

As long as Jake Raby is going to relentlessly continue with his hijack, I would like to add my 2¢.

PPBB is a free discussion board. One of the common topics is "is this product any good?" Your products are fair game.

How can you (and why would you) make personal statements about someone's qualifications when you know absolutely nothing about them?

The truth (and discussion about what is the truth) is the friend of the honest businessman and the enemy of the dishonest.

[Jaxonalden]

Originally Posted by Jake Raby

Yeah I saw that thread... Having used crows feet to torque flight controls in aircraft, it really confused me that none of the experts knew the formul for calculating torque angle....

Between them they have probably built an accumulative 5 engines....

Jake,

I'm a former USAF aircraft mechanic and it's is hard to believe that people “in the profession” don’t know the tools of their trade or how to do simple calculations. Makes one wonder about the quality of the product they produce.

Keep up the great work. I’d love to swap my 3.2 for one of your Stage II 3.6’s. With a torque curve (or lack thereof) that flat it must be a ball to drive.

[mts]

Originally Posted by Stefan (Boston)

As long as Jake Raby is going to relentlessly continue with his hijack, I would like to add my 2¢.

PPBB is a free discussion board. One of the common topics is "is this product any good?" Your products are fair game.

How can you (and why would you) make personal statements about someone's qualifications when you know absolutely nothing about them?

The truth (and discussion about what is the truth) is the friend of the honest businessman and the enemy of the dishonest.

That's fair if Jake is allowed to freely participate in the discussion too. If his posts are deleted and he's asked not to participate at PPBB at all things get just a little one sided pretty quick. He's out there actually doing work on these cars and posting results. It's really easy for some others to hide behind the internet and post whatever they want with no factual basis for anything.

My 2 cents is PPBB lost a very valuable resource when Jake was kicked off and are much worse off for it.

[Stefan (Boston)]

I don't think it's necessary for the designer of a part to be involved in a discussion for the discussion to be informative, interesting, and even illuminating. After all, Porsche doesn't have reps online in the discussion forums defending every complaint against their cars or addressing the claims that their parts are insufficient.

I have never heard of PPBB deputies deleting posts or banning people for no reason. And they do respond to questions about why posts have been deleted.

The archives for PPBB are available and they prove that Jake's posts are mostly about self-promotion, self-aggrandizement, putting others down, and little about informative content.

I don't doubt that Jake has a lot of valuable experience and information but as far as PPBB is concerned, it's not a big loss for the above-mentioned type of posts to be discontinued.

[grantsfo]

Jake keep up the good work. As far as PPBB goes thats the place I go to learn more about carbon fiber trim pieces or best type of wax to use on a new 987. You dont belong there. Stick with more technical sites. Us folks who know about issues as well as potential of M96 are behind you. Your reputation with this platform will take time just as it did with T4's. Most of these guys dont know how you go after engine platforms.

Youre used to this stuff from 914 world and you developed the leading edge for the T4 platform. No doubts you will do similar thing for M96.

I just need to figure out what I'm going to do with my race car so I can use some of the parts you are developing! Boxster is sort of odd duck in SCCA racing. I'm trying to figure out best class for my diverse interests across AX, hillclimbing and perhaps road racing.

My little 2.5 Box recently set an SCCA GT3 class record at a hillclimb that has been held for 23 years. I'm still thinking a small displacement high output Boxster has a home somewhere.

[mts]

Originally Posted by Stefan (Boston)

I don't think it's necessary for the designer of a part to be involved in a discussion for the discussion to be informative, interesting, and even illuminating. After all, Porsche doesn't have reps online in the discussion forums defending every complaint against their cars or addressing the claims that their parts are insufficient.

I have never heard of PPBB deputies deleting posts or banning people for no reason. And they do respond to questions about why posts have been deleted.

The archives for PPBB are available and they prove that Jake's posts are mostly about self-promotion, self-aggrandizement, putting others down, and little about informative content.

I don't doubt that Jake has a lot of valuable experience and information but as far as PPBB is concerned, it's not a big loss for the above-mentioned type of posts to be discontinued.

It's interesting that Jake does almost none of the negative stuff you decribe above on this forum and provides a TON of informative content......hmmmm. Since you indicate its no big loss for PPBB for him not to post on PPBB anymore perhaps he can spend more time on this forum. We'll happily take it! Sounds like a win-win for both forums!!

[Jake Raby]

So... Why don't we see if some good can come from this crossposting and the war between the forums.

When I wrote Rob back after his email a few months ago I agreed to disagree and to move forward and try to make this all work out.

Since this thread has brought a lot of things to light I'd still be willing to sponsor their site and offer information much like I do here... and do so without any self promotion.. Skyler posted there that I was still welcome to post, but thats not what Rob had emailed to me.

I think that how we handle this situation now says more about the people involved than anything else and I am certainly open to working out the details and abiding by their rules... I abide by everyone elses and have been since Rennlist was still a "list"....

I am open, lets just see if they are.. If any PPBB admin would like to chat, just let me know as I feel we can resolve this for the mutual benefit of the entire community and the M96 engine.

[jmatta]

I'm sorry to continue the hijack of this thread, but I posted a comment defending the magnetic drain plug on PPBB and also mentioned the low temp t-stat, which took on a life of it's own. I am not an engineer, but a Porsche owner and truly appreciate the work Jake and Charles have put into making these cars more reliable. I have upgraded my '02 S with the "easy" components (i.e. external) in hopes it will extend the longevity of my engine.

There are those that will argue every point, regardless of what makes sense or is factual...I don't have time for them and can see how it can be very frustrating dealing with their uninformed comments and opinions. Let their engine implode (if they even own one) then see who they go crying to.

BTW, I've deleted my link to PPBB; the place didn't impress me anyway. Too many "so called" experts that want to argue everything, except their own opinion.


J Matta
aka JGM911

[renzop]

There is nothing wrong with PPBB. There is nothing wrong with 986 forum. If you don't like one, don't go there. Web forums are communities and like real-world, physical communities, they acquire the personalities, prejudices and proclivities of those that live there. If those folks ain't your kinda folks its very easy to move out. But don't bash them. It lowers people's opinion of the basher not the bashee.

[jmatta]

My intent was not to bash the posters at PPBB; I just feel the place is too "clique-ish" for my taste, hence my de-link. JPA in PA does his best to make reason...he must like abuse.

For me, I enjoy the technical discussions and have learned quite a bit about our engines from Jake and Charles. To read the posts where everything and anything is challenged ("the sky isn't really blue") gets old.

[Stefan (Boston)]

I think it's ok to challenge that the sky is blue as long as you also challenge that the Earth is flat.

[Thumper]

Originally Posted by Stefan (Boston)

I think it's ok to challenge that the sky is blue as long as you also challenge that the Earth is flat.

Sounds as if this forum may not be suited for your personality. It appears that all you want to do is "stir the pot", which is unfortunate and serves no useful purpose.

[Jaxonalden]

Originally Posted by Stefan (Boston)

I think it's ok to challenge that the sky is blue as long as you also challenge that the Earth is flat.

Wow, now that's deep. You should be a philosopher.

[Norminhouston]

Depends on the definition of "is".