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Old 01-05-2021, 09:15 PM   #1
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Intro post & track car build progress

Hi all, new to the forum. Figured I'd intro myself and my current track car project (986 S, unfortunately won't meet BSR but still going to turn it into something lean and mean for time attacks and general HPDE fun)

I'm new to the forum, but only kind of new to track driving. Been tracking my cars for about 4-5 years now, anywhere from 6-12 track days a year, depending on the year). I had a 991.1 C2S as a daily/track car split for a while, and now I have a 991.1 GT3 as a dedicated track car.

Just picked up a 2000 Boxster S that I'm converting to stripped down full track car this winter and starting to head to the track with it in a couple weeks for it's first shake down run.

So far with the car, I've:

- Removed spare, tools, etc...
- Removed frunk & trunk liners, carpet, plastic trim, sound insulation
- Removed stereo head unit, speakers, amp, cd changer, rear speaker shelf
- Removed Interior heavy carpets & sound insulation from engine bay/behind seats. Haven't removed the rest of the interior carpet yet so I can still drive the car around on the streets until my trailer gets here (ordered already)
- Removed some dash and door trim so far
- Removed spoiler motor and assembly, left in up position
- Removed convertible top motor and transimission/gearing, just manually operated at the moment.
- Got a fiberglass roof shell (from Getty Design) just waiting on the latches to come in to remove rest of soft top and mount this instead
- Replaced driver seat with Sparco lightweight fiberglass seat. Removing passenger seat for now, will eventually put in another race seat there
- Swapped from the 18" Sport Design wheels to the 17" BSR-sized turbo twists
- Installed PSS9 coilovers
- Installed stainless brake lines, speed bleeder valves, Sebro rotors & Ferodo DS3 pads
- Installed an eBay cheapo muffler that weighs only 11lbs compared to the factory 30+ lb muffler
- and probably a bunch of other stuff I'm forgetting. Have been wrenching away on this car for the past 2 months off & on. Lots of normal maintenance and repairs as well (oil change with new LN spin-on adapter & magnetic plug, new spark plugs, replacing wheel bearings, etc...)

Currently have some adjustable control arms, swaybars, drop links, tow links coming to complete the suspension overhaul as most of the original boots and bushings were falling apart so figured may as well just do the whole makeover now while in there

Looking forward to heading to Thunderhill with some folks on 1/18 to give it the first proper on-track shake down and see how things go!

Some progress pics.....








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Old 01-06-2021, 08:04 AM   #2
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consider some oiling mods before serious track use.

very similar to my car btw, and it surprises plenty of people on the track.
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Old 01-06-2021, 08:49 AM   #3
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I've been mulling over oiling options and I see so much conflicting info it's hard to figure out what actually is needed or even works. Some swear by Accusump or bust, others seem to say that deep sump kits (either the 0.5 or 2qt variant) are enough, others say deep sump but only if it has a metal baffle, and there's even a camp of folks who track their cars without any of this and haven't had problems. It's really overwhelming for someone new to the 986/996 platform.

I'm trying to look for as much data-backed claims as I can on these to make a decision, but so far I'm leaning more towards a deep sump + baffle as the possible direction to take this on my next oil change.

Thoughts? (I know this will likely incite a massive debate about what the right thing is )
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Old 01-06-2021, 11:20 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by rezanourai View Post
I've been mulling over oiling options and I see so much conflicting info it's hard to figure out what actually is needed or even works. Some swear by Accusump or bust, others seem to say that deep sump kits (either the 0.5 or 2qt variant) are enough, others say deep sump but only if it has a metal baffle, and there's even a camp of folks who track their cars without any of this and haven't had problems. It's really overwhelming for someone new to the 986/996 platform.

I'm trying to look for as much data-backed claims as I can on these to make a decision, but so far I'm leaning more towards a deep sump + baffle as the possible direction to take this on my next oil change.

Thoughts? (I know this will likely incite a massive debate about what the right thing is )

Quadcammer is right.
Here's my own opinion, based on some experience and some research;

First: regarding those who tell you that they track it successfully with no oiling mods: These are NOT the fast guys.

Second: some of this depends on the tracks you frequent. If you have longer, sustained high-G corners (especially left-handers) then your needs are more critical than others.

There is an argument (which you've no doubt come across) which says the accu-sump takes too long to kick-in and by the time it does the damage is done. And yet, there are thousands of racers using them. they can't all be stupid.

MY own car (which was much like yours, but which has now been dismantled in favor of a spec boxster so I can go racing) I went with the 2-qt deep sump with the separation plate, plus the steel X51 style baffle. I think one of the most important keys to this setup really IS the separation plate, because once the oil is under that plate (in the sump) it CANNOT climb back up the sides of the crankcase, regardless of the G's it's under or for how long. This, combined with a mindfullness of RPM in those critical corners (read about this below) kept the motor alive pretty successfully.

My new-to-me SPB has an accusump. It'll be my first personal hands-on with it. But I think I'll also do the above mods to the sump. (I wish I hadn't sold the kit already! darnit! haha)

So the mindlfullness of RPM in corners;
I don't recall which of the racers on this forum brought this to my attention first, but it just makes sense. If you're driving through the apex at the top of the powerband (say 6000RPM), you're moving a LOT of oil and that sump will go dry twice as quickly as it would at HALF that RPM (say 3000RPM).
So I tend to short-shift, leaving me in a gear that's 1-higher than I really feel like I want to be. I can't do this everywhere, of course. But two things happen when I do it successfully: 1) the sump stays wet, and 2) I find I frequently carry more corner speed than I would have in the lower gear.
This isn't a skill I've perfected yet, because I'm still sacrificing drive too frequently, being in too high a gear to really get after it. But I'm convinced this technique can be learned and honed so that I can use it in places where it WON'T sacrifice drive. Obviously this works better for HPDE than for racing, until such time as it's dialed-in.
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Old 01-06-2021, 11:43 AM   #5
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Quadcammer is right.
Here's my own opinion, based on some experience and some research;

First: regarding those who tell you that they track it successfully with no oiling mods: These are NOT the fast guys.

Second: some of this depends on the tracks you frequent. If you have longer, sustained high-G corners (especially left-handers) then your needs are more critical than others.

There is an argument (which you've no doubt come across) which says the accu-sump takes too long to kick-in and by the time it does the damage is done. And yet, there are thousands of racers using them. they can't all be stupid.

MY own car (which was much like yours, but which has now been dismantled in favor of a spec boxster so I can go racing) I went with the 2-qt deep sump with the separation plate, plus the steel X51 style baffle. I think one of the most important keys to this setup really IS the separation plate, because once the oil is under that plate (in the sump) it CANNOT climb back up the sides of the crankcase, regardless of the G's it's under or for how long. This, combined with a mindfullness of RPM in those critical corners (read about this below) kept the motor alive pretty successfully.

My new-to-me SPB has an accusump. It'll be my first personal hands-on with it. But I think I'll also do the above mods to the sump. (I wish I hadn't sold the kit already! darnit! haha)

So the mindlfullness of RPM in corners;
I don't recall which of the racers on this forum brought this to my attention first, but it just makes sense. If you're driving through the apex at the top of the powerband (say 6000RPM), you're moving a LOT of oil and that sump will go dry twice as quickly as it would at HALF that RPM (say 3000RPM).
So I tend to short-shift, leaving me in a gear that's 1-higher than I really feel like I want to be. I can't do this everywhere, of course. But two things happen when I do it successfully: 1) the sump stays wet, and 2) I find I frequently carry more corner speed than I would have in the lower gear.
This isn't a skill I've perfected yet, because I'm still sacrificing drive too frequently, being in too high a gear to really get after it. But I'm convinced this technique can be learned and honed so that I can use it in places where it WON'T sacrifice drive. Obviously this works better for HPDE than for racing, until such time as it's dialed-in.
Thanks, this is great info. The 2qt deep sump + x51 baffle is essentially the path I've been looking closest at. It seems like a reasonable middle ground across all the arguments. Which 2qt kit did you go with, and did you ever have any problems bottoming it out on deep compression turns/dips on track?

I've been considering possibly the LN one: https://lnengineering.com/2qt-deep-sump-oil-pan-kit-inc-pickup-tube-extension-windage-tray-x51-baffle.html but I know there are others I should consider as well.
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Old 01-06-2021, 01:32 PM   #6
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Tried replying before, but not sure why it didn't work? Let's try again....

Thanks, that's great info. The 2qt deep sump + x51 baffle is essentially what I was looking at as it seems to be a good middle ground across the various arguments I've seen. Which specific kit did you use? I'm looking at the LN one which includes x51 baffle, but I've also seen a few others that seemed comparable and possibly better priced.

Also, did you ever have problems with bottoming out the 2qt (it sticks out a good bit lower looks like) kit while on track? I'm particularly worried about high compression "dips" that we have in a few places on our local tracks here in Nor Cal.
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Old 01-06-2021, 01:55 PM   #7
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I have the 2 QT LN Deep sump on my Boxster and never hit it on the ground, either when I was overly lowered on KSport coilovers with skidplate (never hit the skidplate either) or on moderately lowered with PSS9 with no skidplate. I just made sure to go diagonally across any speedbumps.

Like maytag referenced above, I do some short shifting. I personally shifted around 6,500 or below, and if I could go through a sweeper at the top of 3rd or midrange of 4th, I always chose 4th. And for slower corners, I would keep 3rd vs 2nd, and most times I could learn to roll more speed. It also depends on the turn, T7 at Road Atlanta it is faster for me to go to 2nd, and the braking works out for me to go from 3->2 there. Places like T1 at VIR, here I am vMin around 44-45, if I could shift to 2nd there I could gain some time, but I do some much trail braking there, that I am too fast go 3->2 before the turn in, and I don't have the skill to go 3->2 right at the apex.

On my first track day I had slightly overfilled my car with oil, and went through T8/9 at Roebling in the top of 3rd gear, and when I tracked out and then shifted to 4th, I blew a huge smoke bomb. I haven't ever blown one since but I have seen plenty of them. Not running through a sweeper near the top of the gear and not overfilling my oil fixed it for me.

The other mod that I think helped me was a switch to run both of my radiator fans on high, combined with the 2 QT Deep sump, and I ran 10W50 Millers Nano, kept my oil in control and allowed me to have good Used Oil Analysis reports.

Please post some video next time you get out to the track!
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Old 01-06-2021, 03:03 PM   #8
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Hmm, again I tried replying and it didn't work. I think replying through email notification link doesn't work for me so just using Quick Reply now

Quote:
Originally Posted by steved0x View Post
I have the 2 QT LN Deep sump on my Boxster and never hit it on the ground, either when I was overly lowered on KSport coilovers with skidplate (never hit the skidplate either) or on moderately lowered with PSS9 with no skidplate. I just made sure to go diagonally across any speedbumps.

Like maytag referenced above, I do some short shifting. I personally shifted around 6,500 or below, and if I could go through a sweeper at the top of 3rd or midrange of 4th, I always chose 4th. And for slower corners, I would keep 3rd vs 2nd, and most times I could learn to roll more speed. It also depends on the turn, T7 at Road Atlanta it is faster for me to go to 2nd, and the braking works out for me to go from 3->2 there. Places like T1 at VIR, here I am vMin around 44-45, if I could shift to 2nd there I could gain some time, but I do some much trail braking there, that I am too fast go 3->2 before the turn in, and I don't have the skill to go 3->2 right at the apex.

On my first track day I had slightly overfilled my car with oil, and went through T8/9 at Roebling in the top of 3rd gear, and when I tracked out and then shifted to 4th, I blew a huge smoke bomb. I haven't ever blown one since but I have seen plenty of them. Not running through a sweeper near the top of the gear and not overfilling my oil fixed it for me.

The other mod that I think helped me was a switch to run both of my radiator fans on high, combined with the 2 QT Deep sump, and I ran 10W50 Millers Nano, kept my oil in control and allowed me to have good Used Oil Analysis reports.

Please post some video next time you get out to the track!
Awesome, thanks! Did you do the regular 2qt LN kit or the one with the x51 baffle? I'm currently running stock 0W40 Mobil 1, but haven't really started to look into whether I should be using something else. Weather here isn't too cold in Nor Cal, but does occassionally hit 100-105 at the track in the mid summer months.

BTW, I don't have any videos of the boxster out on track yet as my first day is coming up in a few weeks, but just for fun here's a video in my GT3 at laguna seca here locally: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWaitWYn3_w

Will post up videos of the shake down in the boxster when I get it out.
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Old 01-06-2021, 04:15 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by rezanourai View Post
Awesome, thanks! Did you do the regular 2qt LN kit or the one with the x51 baffle?.
I have the one that includes the x-51 style metal baffles, which I thought was their only version:

https://lnengineering.com/2qt-deep-sump-oil-pan-kit-inc-pickup-tube-extension-windage-tray-x51-baffle.html

Pedro/Tuners motorsports sells a 2 qt deep sump.that reuses the stock plastic baffle.
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Old 01-06-2021, 06:17 PM   #10
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I used the same one y'all linked: LN with windage tray and baffle. I also bought somebody's sump guard (might have been LN?) Because it was easier than making one, haha. Like Steve, I never had a problem, no signs it ever bottomed out, and I LOVE to use the curbs, hehe.

GT3 through the corkscrew..... man.... THAT would be a hoot! Thanks for posting that.

I still think this forum need 2 things more:
1) a forum dedicated just to our own track videos.

2) a "racetrack exchange", where we can sign up to host someone else on the forum at our home track, in exchange for the same. It would make it so much easier for us to see some other tracks we don't usually get to see: fly in, drive the other member's car, fly out. ;-)


It's not a gt3 at the corkscrew, but here's my f430 through the "attitudes":
https://youtu.be/rbuIyLDdCj8

My D/E boxster at the same track:
https://youtu.be/OCZkupx3U2I



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Old 01-06-2021, 08:29 PM   #11
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Nice videos, never driven that track. Looks fun!

LN seems to push the XP9 oil for race/track use, but that stuff is pretty expensive. Is it worth the extra price?

I see most everyone on 986 platform using 10W30 or 10W40. Should I move away from the factory 0W40 for track use on this engine? My newer 911s (both Carrera S and GT3) did fine with track use on 0W40 but those engines are very different from a 20 year old M96, so I am not going to assume that the same "just works" here too
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Old 01-07-2021, 06:13 AM   #12
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Nice videos, never driven that track. Looks fun!

LN seems to push the XP9 oil for race/track use, but that stuff is pretty expensive. Is it worth the extra price?

I see most everyone on 986 platform using 10W30 or 10W40. Should I move away from the factory 0W40 for track use on this engine? My newer 911s (both Carrera S and GT3) did fine with track use on 0W40 but those engines are very different from a 20 year old M96, so I am not going to assume that the same "just works" here too
The XP-9 is only good for 750 miles from what I have seen, and so that wouldn't work for me since I drive to/from the track, in some cases I exceed that mileage before the weekend is up, if the track is far. If you are trailering and just driving track miles, I guess you would be able to get more than 1 weekend out of it. The folks I know running it seem to like it and they all trailer their (dedicated track) cars.

In my Boxster (2000 S) I went with Millers Nano after reading their 996 race car case study, I ran their 5W40 first and then went with their 10W50. I was able to get 4,000+ miles out of the oi (combo of highway driving + track, if I was trailering the car I would not attempt to get 4000 track miles), supported by UOA. So that helped offset the cost for me since the Millers is pricy

I went to 10W50 from the 5W40 because it seemed to perform better when hot with regard to oil pressure, but I don't have any hard data to back that up, just a notion from checking the oil pressure/temp gauges that I had positioned within the camera view.

In my Cayman I am running Motul 5W40 sport, which is an Ester based synthetic that is positioned between their 5W40 x-cess and the 300-V track only oil. I have gotten good UOA out of that and target a 4,000 mile interval, again with a combo of highway driving to/from track days.

Yes to a track video forum and cool videos in this thread, thanks for sharing! Track exchange hosting sounds good but I wouldn't want to drive anyone else's car or let them drive mine, what if it chooses that day to blow up I would feel bad
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Old 01-07-2021, 06:40 PM   #13
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Thanks steved0x. I plan to trailer the car, and probably will put anywhere from 100-200 miles on the car per track day depending on which track and how many sessions/runs I get in. I had planned on changing oil every 5 or so track days (change by 1000 miles), but seems like with the Millers Nano maybe I can stretch that further? I have never done UOA before on other cars, but I plan to start with this engine. If I can get closer to 8-10 days out of an oil change and still have clean UOA then I don't mind spending a bit more on each change. I'll look into the Millers, never used or known anyone who uses it before so new to me.
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Old 01-07-2021, 08:08 PM   #14
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Are y'all using Blackstone for your uoa? Or is there another option? (Nothing wrong with Blackstone, as far as I'm concerned, just curious)



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Old 01-08-2021, 05:56 AM   #15
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Are y'all using Blackstone for your uoa? Or is there another option? (Nothing wrong with Blackstone, as far as I'm concerned, just curious)



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your local CAT service center also does oil analysis. The Blackstone one is easier to read the results

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