Spec Boxster Build

[thstone]

Originally Posted by maytag

Out of curiosity, did the driver who hit you end up kicking-in to help? I know you said he was apologetic.

He helped with ~10% of the total bill (which had 5 digits to the left of the decimal).

And even that was bizarre. About half of that amount was comprised of used air-cooled 911 parts. He offered them to me to re-sell. Thanks, but I thought that he should have sold them and then offered me the proceeds. Ultimately, the repair shop took the parts and gave me a cash credit that was less than the re-sale value of the parts since they had to store, list, sell, and ship them.

[seningen]

Originally Posted by thstone

He helped with ~10% of the total bill (which had 5 digits to the left of the decimal).

And even that was bizarre. About half of that amount was comprised of used air-cooled 911 parts. He offered them to me to re-sell. Thanks, but I thought that he should have sold them and then offered me the proceeds. Ultimately, the repair shop took the parts and gave me a cash credit that was less than the re-sale value of the parts since they had to store, list, sell, and ship them.

Ouch --

I'll be honest, I don't expect to be paid from an on track incident... I drive what I can either afford to fix or afford to walk away from.

There are some folks I share the track with whose cars cost more than my house!

Not sure what my mental state will be when I cause something.
things can go wrong so quickly on track -- and we're all amateurs out there.

I try really hard to play nicely and in the big picture of things, conservatively.

I think I'm more of a "just stick my head in the sand and hope for the best" kind of racer, as opposed to the "stick my nose in the corner and pray :-)"
I'd rather give space or spots than trade paint.

Probably why I get to watch a lot of good racing in front of me :-)

Mike

[maytag]

Originally Posted by seningen

Ouch --

I'll be honest, I don't expect to be paid from an on track incident... I drive what I can either afford to fix or afford to walk away from.

This has always been my approach as well. I'm coming from the bike world, but it would have never occurred to me to ask someone who ran into me at the racetrack to participate in the repair costs. That's why I asked the question, though. I'm allowing for the possibility that it's different in the car world.
And truthfully: I'm also witnessing a trend that people are now suing track day promoters and race organizers for injuries and damages incurred. It's like they think the waiver means nothing.....

Not talking about this incident specifically, of course... just generally


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[thstone]

Originally Posted by maytag

This has always been my approach as well. I'm coming from the bike world, but it would have never occurred to me to ask someone who ran into me at the racetrack to participate in the repair costs. That's why I asked the question, though. I'm allowing for the possibility that it's different in the car world.

Its not different in the car world. I am the same as you - I assume that I will have to pay for any damages to my car regardless of fault. And I have.

This situation was a little different and let me explain - there is a certain level of agreed and accepted risk that every driver takes when going wheel to wheel racing. But its a shared risk. We accept that none of us are professional drivers and mistakes will be made and that comes with the territory. And if you can't live with that, both personally and financially, then you shouldn't be out there racing.

After 100 races, I know what a racing incident is and I have no problems with that. If we were side by side racing for position and we hit, there would have been no hard feelings on my part. That is just racing and I accept it just like everyone else.

But in this case, the mistake was so egregious that it went outside the bounds of accepted risk. This was a rookie driver's mistake, something that should have been learned during a driver's HPDE days and something that no licensed racing driver should make.

And that set it apart. The other driver violated the agreed risk by acting negligent.

Why do I consider this negligent?

This driver already had a 13/13 and was on probation from a previous accident. He should have been on his best driving behavior.

This driver was racing two Boxster's who weren't in his class.

This race had a split start which means that he started a half-lap ahead of us. He was in last place in his class and last place overall. The two Boxster's were racing in the Top 10.

The Competition Director announced in the drivers meeting NOT to try to pull back onto the track after putting two wheels off since doing so would surely result in a wreck.

Add all of that up and you have a driver who isn't meeting the minimum expectations for being out on a track and racing in a safe manner. Racing while not meeting the minimum requirements for safe racing is negligent in my book.

That's how I saw it. I might be wrong, but you might feel different when someone plows into you and the reason it happened is that they don't know what they're doing.

At the next race (which I did not attend), I was told that the Chief Driving Instructor took to the podium in the drivers meeting and told 911 drivers that if they are being passed by Boxster's then they aren't in the race and to let them go.

And at the end of the day, the other driver mostly agreed with my viewpoint. He knew that he effed up big time and he knew that it wasn't a racing accident. It was caused by his doing exactly what the CD told everyone not to do. That is why he offered to pay what he could. Fair enough for me. But the 911 parts thing caught me off guard. I wasn't expecting that at all.

[maytag]

Originally Posted by thstone

Its not different in the car world. I am the same as you - I assume that I will have to pay for any damages to my car regardless of fault. And I have.

This situation was a little different and let me explain - there is a certain level of agreed and accepted risk that every driver takes when going wheel to wheel racing. But its a shared risk. We accept that none of us are professional drivers and mistakes will be made and that comes with the territory. And if you can't live with that, both personally and financially, then you shouldn't be out there racing.

After 100 races, I know what a racing incident is and I have no problems with that. If we were side by side racing for position and we hit, there would have been no hard feelings on my part. That is just racing and I accept it just like everyone else.

But in this case, the mistake was so egregious that it went outside the bounds of accepted risk. This was a rookie driver's mistake, something that should have been learned during a driver's HPDE days and something that no licensed racing driver should make.

And that set it apart. The other driver violated the agreed risk by acting negligent.

Why do I consider this negligent?

This driver already had a 13/13 and was on probation from a previous accident. He should have been on his best driving behavior.

This driver was racing two Boxster's who weren't in his class.

This race had a split start which means that he started a half-lap ahead of us. He was in last place in his class and last place overall. The two Boxster's were racing in the Top 10.

The Competition Director announced in the drivers meeting NOT to try to pull back onto the track after putting two wheels off since doing so would surely result in a wreck.

Add all of that up and you have a driver who isn't meeting the minimum expectations for being out on a track and racing in a safe manner. Racing while not meeting the minimum requirements for safe racing is negligent in my book.

That's how I saw it. I might be wrong, but you might feel different when someone plows into you and the reason it happened is that they don't know what they're doing.

At the next race (which I did not attend), I was told that the Chief Driving Instructor took to the podium in the drivers meeting and told 911 drivers that if they are being passed by Boxster's then they aren't in the race and to let them go.

And at the end of the day, the other driver mostly agreed with my viewpoint. He knew that he effed up big time and he knew that it wasn't a racing accident. It was caused by his doing exactly what the CD told everyone not to do. That is why he offered to pay what he could. Fair enough for me. But the 911 parts thing caught me off guard. I wasn't expecting that at all.

I hear ya. And I think it's fair to say that every incident should be considered independently.

During a pre-race-weekend track day in '06, I was hit just before the apex at the end of a fast straight, by a "hero" who blew the corner entry (early-apexed it, if you could call it that) and would've ended up in the gravel on the outside of the turn anyway..... but he t-boned me and collected me with him.

I was doing about 65mph with my knee on the ground, and he was doing over 100mph when he hit me, straight up and down. Very clearly negligent. Something even a beginner shouldn't have done, let alone someone in the "experienced" group.

I broke my tib and fib, and totaled a brand-new cbr1000rr..... with fewer than 200 miles on it. Nothing was salvageable.

It cost me not just the bike and the medical bills, but some time off work as well. Add it all up, I was well over $20k out-of-pocket. I sure would've appreciated a more considerate approach from the guy in that incident.

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[seningen]

Originally Posted by thstone

Its not different in the car world. I am the same as you - I assume that I will have to pay for any damages to my car regardless of fault. And I have.

This situation was a little different and let me explain - there is a certain level of agreed and accepted risk that every driver takes when going wheel to wheel racing. But its a shared risk. We accept that none of us are professional drivers and mistakes will be made and that comes with the territory. And if you can't live with that, both personally and financially, then you shouldn't be out there racing.

After 100 races, I know what a racing incident is and I have no problems with that. If we were side by side racing for position and we hit, there would have been no hard feelings on my part. That is just racing and I accept it just like everyone else.

But in this case, the mistake was so egregious that it went outside the bounds of accepted risk. This was a rookie driver's mistake, something that should have been learned during a driver's HPDE days and something that no licensed racing driver should make.

And that set it apart. The other driver violated the agreed risk by acting negligent.

Why do I consider this negligent?

This driver already had a 13/13 and was on probation from a previous accident. He should have been on his best driving behavior.

This driver was racing two Boxster's who weren't in his class.

This race had a split start which means that he started a half-lap ahead of us. He was in last place in his class and last place overall. The two Boxster's were racing in the Top 10.

The Competition Director announced in the drivers meeting NOT to try to pull back onto the track after putting two wheels off since doing so would surely result in a wreck.

Add all of that up and you have a driver who isn't meeting the minimum expectations for being out on a track and racing in a safe manner. Racing while not meeting the minimum requirements for safe racing is negligent in my book.

That's how I saw it. I might be wrong, but you might feel different when someone plows into you and the reason it happened is that they don't know what they're doing.

At the next race (which I did not attend), I was told that the Chief Driving Instructor took to the podium in the drivers meeting and told 911 drivers that if they are being passed by Boxster's then they aren't in the race and to let them go.

And at the end of the day, the other driver mostly agreed with my viewpoint. He knew that he effed up big time and he knew that it wasn't a racing accident. It was caused by his doing exactly what the CD told everyone not to do. That is why he offered to pay what he could. Fair enough for me. But the 911 parts thing caught me off guard. I wasn't expecting that at all.

Totally reasonable -- and in fact I'm often the caboose in the SPB world (or close to it) but -- as a newish SPB guy I was evaluated by an experienced racer as -- you're fine, you're just a tad slow everywhere :-)

With a lot of Endurance racing experience -- I'm situationally aware and I also am very cognizant of mixed-class racing. Heck I enjoy the thrill of racing, but I just as much enjoy the bench racing with beers after -- and if you can't coexist on track -- who's going to want to have a beer with you after.

I'm glad he made the reach -- even if it was with paper weights :-)

More importantly -- I'm glad you're back on track!

Mike

[maytag]

Originally Posted by seningen

.... but I just as much enjoy the bench racing with beers after -- and if you can't coexist on track -- who's going to want to have a beer with you after.



I'm glad he made the reach -- even if it was with paper weights :-)



More importantly -- I'm glad you're back on track!



Mike

Amen to all of that.

I know myself well enough to know that if I'm ever the guy causing an accident that's not clearly a "racing incident", I'll feel responsible too. But, as was said previously: some of those guys are racing cars worth more than I make in a year. How do I decide what the line is? And does that mean that if I'm not willing to give-up a year's salary (or more) if I have a brain fart, that I should stay off the track?

Like was said below, I've always believed (and taught newcomers) that if you aren't willing to leave the track without it, then you shouldn't arrive WITH it. But why would that apply to my "cheap" boxster, and not to some guy's 6-digit cup-car?

Like I said: just trying to find the line in the grey area. I think it's likely at some point that each of us experience an on-track incident that somebody would say we were at fault for.

It's a tough spot I'll find myself in when that happens to me, if I agree that I was at fault.

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