Took a dump

[Starter986]

OK. Quickly... lol...

Adult son visited me this weekend; he just left for Vegas... home.

Yesterday I let him drive the car to La Jolla. Easy route down... 10... 60... 215... 15 and over to the beach.

Left around 5... 15 Northbound. In spite of using FastTrak... it was bumper to bumper... not a surprise on a Friday afternoon rush hour. Anyhow... I started grilling him about the slight 'bucking" I felt... he didn't (he doesn't know the car). I'm asking him why is he in 3rd gear when we're going 20 miles an hour. Mind you we're in manual (Tip). Anyhow... we get to the Pechanga Casino exit, which I recognize for I've a brother in law living proximate the joint... and I tell me son we'll just take the 79... drop us off on the 10.

Anyhow... I thought we remained on the 79 when it happened. Son was doing some serious canyon carving... going through the gears... twists and turns... The car in the three years hadn't seen this much action... and I will say that my son... a motorcycle rider... knows how to focus and I was really impressed. 15 minutes into our trip, when we left yesterday morning, he told me: I gotta get one of these. We discussed an S... manual 5 speed. He got the bug... anyhow...

So... we're cruising and the "bucking' in what appeared to be 2nd gear with the revs around 2300 (my son had been paying attention) and I say lets pull over. We did. I let it set for a few minutes, off. Went to leave... start the car. Zero. Tried several times. Nothing. I'm now thinking the eff word and my predicament. Stuck in front of a Panda Express with a broken down car.

I must collect my wits (yeah yeah... the few I have... I know I know)... hit a restroom... return to the car to start it. Zero. Zero. Zero.

I ask myself what have I been reading on the forum. I ask myself what would the five sharpest guys on the forum suggest... so I put the shifter into neutral... hit the key... vroom vroom.

Lets get the hell out of here and get her home.

So... somehow the 79 changed it's look because we found ourselves deep in wine country. No navigation system... ... when we start hitting some hairpin turns he brakes... downshifts... comes out of it... zoom... shift... and I recognize that when as he's coming out of a turn and giving it gas... we're not accelerating like we should. He doesn't recognize this... I point it out. Seems to iron itself out... and I tell him lets cool it down and just nurse her home.

We finally, finally come to a stop sign. When he accelerates to proceed the engine revs are going... but we're hardly moving. We get moving and I tell him just keep it steady. I then smell oil burning. I believe it to be oil for when I checked the stick that morning I thought, oddly, it to be a little on the high side.

Anyhow... the smell of smoke becomes visible smoke filling the cabin. Now... the top is down... and the smoke is almost overwhelming. We pull over and situate the car. For those interested simply Google: State and Batz Hemet, CA.

It dumped the transmission fluid. I believe it was due to my sons spirited driving. Winding up... winding down.

The roadside assistance with whom my insurance is associated was, as my Mom would say, "Worthless as tits on a bull". Cell coverage was extremely spotty... and it literally was an extraordinarily painful "Can you hear me now"... for 45 effin minutes. Every time I thought we were going to commission the tow... disconnected. First quote for the 60 miles tow was $360. I could live with that. Oh! Couple of passengers? We don't do that. COVID.

Then the "service" finds a company that will do it and my son and I... $425. So COVID costs $65, lol. Lets do it. Disconnected. No deal.

My wife was three hours into her weekend girl's trip to Dana Points. She was going to be no help. "You'll work it out. See you Sunday. Love ya".

I finally visited the residence on the corner at 630... he gets a local service... $300. I say nothing except nod my head as the homeowner is making the accommodations. To my home... 20 miles outside Palm Springs? $300. Lets do this. 45 minutes later ~715P... truck shows up. It felt so good... we're headed home.

Young tow truck driver has the car up on the bed... we're ready to roll... Says to my son, "So, you guys are going to follow me?".

My son, the cop, lol... "DUUUUUUUUDE. No!"

I'm just dropping my head in utter ****************ing disappointment... feeling like a schlub with a Moe haircut (actually no haircut, just needs-a-haircut Moe. Son cut my hair this morning. The schlub is gone).

I collect my thoughts, quickly... do the math... and tell the young man that I'll give him $50 extra bucks... dude... we have masks... we shave... we don't do drugs (lie)... we don't cheat on our wives... totally effing with him in humor and he cedes. OK. Lets roll.

Arrived home around 930. This morning I put the car up on 4 stands. Wiped the fluid that had dispersed underneath... and maybe today I'll move out of the way the aluminum bars... remove the triangle plate... and examine it. Haven't done any reading or research to try to come to a sense of what transpired. However, I suspect it was the 2000 to 4000+ shifts up and down and up and down and up and down. I'm hoping the fluid overheated... blew the pan seal... and that's it. If everything appears to be in order I'll just button her up and introduce new fluid following the proper procedure (I did a fluid and filter service about ~3-4-5 months ago).
If anyone has any ideas about what may have happened... what I should look for... what I should inspect... and/or how to test... I'm all ears.

Literally. Ears. Again, son cut my hair this morning.

Cheers!

[piper6909]

Hey Starter, sorry that happened to your car. I wish I had some insight for you, unfortunately I don't but I hope someone chimes in.

[78F350]

My wife has family in Vegas, Palm Springs, and San Diego and many years we've driven across that area, but usually with a rental car from the airport. Great roads. I think we usually end up on 78/79 at some point (Ramona area or Julian to Ocotillo Wells) heading to/from Phoenix to visit my daughter. Sounds like a 'mostly fun' adventure. I would suspect the transmission cooling to be the issue rather than the seal on the pan. The Tip's have a liquid to liquid heat exchanger much like the engine oil cooler. It is mounted on the right (passenger side) of the transmission. It is fed coolant from the front through a vacuum actuated valve and transmission fluid through a manifold by rigid hoses that are sealed with o-rings.



Here's a pic from an eBay sale that shows a Boxster S Tiptronic. The cooling should be pretty much the same:


It is probably not going to be easy to access, but may just need a couple o-rings or a cooler.

[Starter986]

Originally Posted by 78F350

My wife has family in Vegas, Palm Springs, and San Diego and many years we've driven across that area, but usually with a rental car from the airport. Great roads. I think we usually end up on 78/79 at some point (Ramona area or Julian to Ocotillo Wells) heading to/from Phoenix to visit my daughter. Sounds like a 'mostly fun' adventure. I would suspect the transmission cooling to be the issue rather than the seal on the pan. The Tip's have a liquid to liquid heat exchanger much like the engine oil cooler. It is mounted on the right (passenger side) of the transmission. It is fed coolant from the front through a vacuum actuated valve and transmission fluid through a manifold by rigid hoses that are sealed with o-rings.



Here's a pic from an eBay sale that shows a Boxster S Tiptronic. The cooling should be pretty much the same:


It is probably not going to be easy to access, but may just need a couple o-rings or a cooler.

Thank you, 78. Yesterday when I got the car up I did inspect the cooler, and it looked fine. No leaks, no drips. Before I drop the pan I'll check to se if a hose didn't blow or something else. Likely I'll crawl back under it this week.

Thanks!

[Starter986]

I got under the car this morning... and took a peek from above the engine. There is nothing indicating that any hose broke or sprung a leak. Looks good and dry from above and... from under when looking up there's nothing standing out that says "leak/failure up here".

I'm going to remove the bars and the triangle plate... and give everything a closer examination.

Question: In spite of what I find... don't find... should I drop the transmission pan to inspect the internals? Se if there's anything floating in the pan? New gasket will run me <$20. It's a fresh filter, which I would inspect... and replace if it looked sludgy. However... when I dipped my finger into the road and pulled up a nice amount of fluid... it looked good, just like new. Not burnt. No smell.

Or... should I take a chance and refill (procedurally) the transmission fluid ... don;t drop the transmision pan... and see what happens? Me thinks that I should be looking for what caused the failure...and work on that, or associate it with some serious spirited driving.

I appreciate any advice. Thank you.

[Gilles]

Originally Posted by Starter986

OK. Quickly... lol...
My wife was three hours into her weekend girl's trip to Dana Points. She was going to be no help. "You'll work it out. See you Sunday. Love ya".

Somehow it sound familiar... Ha

Sorry, but never had a tip so don't have a clue what to check but someone here will do, hopefully it will be something simple..

Good Luck

PS: Love driving on the HWY 79, I like to go to Warner Springs (gliders) and then to Julian for some awesome apple pie :-)

[Starter986]

Originally Posted by Gilles

Somehow it sound familiar... Ha

Sorry, but never had a tip so don't have a clue what to check but someone here will do, hopefully it will be something simple..

Good Luck

PS: Love driving on the HWY 79, I like to go to Warner Springs (gliders) and then to Julian for some awesome apple pie :-)

Yeah... the 79. Somewhere after entering it off the 15... we wound up in the sticks. The twisties on the route to Big Bear are no match for those 79 back roads.

I'm going to get under there today... and check the transmission changeover cooling valve. I'm hoping it is something simple, as I believe the trans got TOO hot. I'm curious from where did all the fluid dump.

Cheers

[Starter986]

Removed the triangle pan this morning... inepscted underneath... looking into the crannies... and see nothing that would reveal as a failure point. Thre is a fair amount of residual fluid that covered everything. However, again, nothing on top of the engine, nor below, that looks like a fail.

I have a couple of question for our members...

1. Should I drop the tran pan... "inspect" the internals... pull the filter and inspect it? Go from there?

2. Refill with new fluid and see what is the outcome?

Thank you.

[Starter986]

Pulled the pan this morning... no debris... no sludge...

Removed the filter... no clumps... looks used/new (replaced it ~1,000 miles ago).

I've Googled and Googled... but am findoing no 'vent' or 'breather' for the transmission in the event of overheating. Does it exist on the 98 Tip? Where is it?

Clearly there was a failure point... but I'm not finding it. I've had the lights under and above... the cranny-mirror... and don't see anything obvious. Absent a troubleshooting suggestion or recommendation I'm considering just buttoning it up... filling it up... testing to see if it moves.

Nothing mixed with the oil or coolant. Engine starts.

Given the low miles on the filter would the brain trust recommend reusing the OEM filter or purchase a new one?

In advance, thank you.

[78F350]

Here's the transmission vent on a 2001 Tiptronic. This particular car is a little non-standard, but the vent line on your 98 should terminate near the back of the engine behind the intake.

[Starter986]

Thank you, 78, I'll take a look this morning.

Have a good day.

[Starter986]

Filled the trans pan... plugged it... started it up... and this is from where the leak is coming.

After I identified exactly from where the leak is coming I restarted the car for a moment putting it into drive. The wheel spun, in idle. I'm assuming this is a good sign for the TC.

It appears I'll be taking it to an indi, unless someone believes this is a carport-doable job for someone with zero AT experience.

Advice welcomed, thank you.

[911monty]

That will be the transmission input shaft seal. It does not require trans tear down to replace but the trans will have to be removed.

[bcrdukes]

/sarcasm

That's GOT to be the IMS!

/sarcasm

Jokes aside, sorry to hear about your troubles, Starter986. Hope you get this resolved.

[Starter986]

Originally Posted by 911monty

That will be the transmission input shaft seal. It does not require trans tear down to replace but the trans will have to be removed.

Thank you, 911. So... just remove the tranny... replace the seal... button it back up?

[Starter986]

Originally Posted by bcrdukes

/sarcasm

That's GOT to be the IMS!

/sarcasm

Jokes aside, sorry to hear about your troubles, Starter986. Hope you get this resolved.

IMS... leak seal... all the same. You still have to take apart a lot of stuff to get to "it". After that... it's just dollars.

I appreciate good sarcasm.

[Homeoboxter]

This must be totally off because I know nothing about the tiptronic, but this story reminds me when the shifter position sensor, a.k.a. the neutral safety switch in my SAAB went out. The engine wouldn`t start in P, only started in neutral. It worked, I used the car like that for a couple times, but sometimes the car was sluggish and was hardly moving in gear. The sensor was not able to detect the selected gear reliably and confused the control unit. So maybe the seal failure is not the root cause but the consequence of something else? Just a thought.

[piper6909]

Originally Posted by Starter986

Thank you, 911. So... just remove the tranny... replace the seal... button it back up?

Duke's light-hearted sarcasm made me wonder if it might be worth your while to replace the IMS while you're in there. You never know, this may turn out to be a blessing in disguise if your IMS happens to be on it's way.

I don't intend on doing the IMS as a standalone, but if for some reason I had to pull the tranny I'd definitely do it while I was there. Just my 2 cents.

[911monty]

Removing an auto trans is a bit tedious since you have to detach the torque converter (TC) from the engine flex plate through the starter hole before you drop out the trans assembly with the TC. Do not let the TC fall out when dropping the trans. Once assembly is removed you then slide the TC out of the shaft tube. The seal can then be R&R'd. Good news is you can dump the old fluid out of the TC and refill before reinstalling. This will result in a complete fluid change. I have attached a thread from the resident Guru (JFP) covering the important details.

http://986forum.com/forums/diy-project-guides/41975-removal-torque-converter.html

[Starter986]

Originally Posted by Homeoboxter

This must be totally off because I know nothing about the tiptronic, but this story reminds me when the shifter position sensor, a.k.a. the neutral safety switch in my SAAB went out. The engine wouldn`t start in P, only started in neutral. It worked, I used the car like that for a couple times, but sometimes the car was sluggish and was hardly moving in gear. The sensor was not able to detect the selected gear reliably and confused the control unit. So maybe the seal failure is not the root cause but the consequence of something else? Just a thought.

I believe it was a consequence of my son zigging and zagging... and yinging and yanging... while the Rs were singing every scale.

The car has since started in Park... but thanks for the insight!