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Old 02-21-2020, 07:29 AM   #1
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Motor # for IMS Research

I'm in the market for a Boxster, and the IMS debate is a issue, whether you prefer the cautious or the ostrich view. Currently looking at a nice '06, and the owner has provided me a picture of the motor number, from underneath. It looks like: M96/2662600784. I'm not finding anything that decodes like this. Trying to figure if small or large IMS bearing Any help? Thanks





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Old 02-21-2020, 08:00 AM   #2
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I'm in the market for a Boxster, and the IMS debate is a issue, whether you prefer the cautious or the ostrich view. Currently looking at a nice '06, and the owner has provided me a picture of the motor number, from underneath. It looks like: M96/2662600784. I'm not finding anything that decodes like this. Trying to figure if small or large IMS bearing Any help? Thanks



There is no debate. ANY 2006 car, or engine replaced in 2006 will carry the oversized non serviceable IMS bearing, period.
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Old 02-21-2020, 08:21 AM   #3
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Thank you....that being said, would YOU buy a car with smaller bearing and go the replacement/LN route, or a newer, larger bearing car, and just hope for the best?
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Old 02-21-2020, 08:32 AM   #4
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Thank you....that being said, would YOU buy a car with smaller bearing and go the replacement/LN route, or a newer, larger bearing car, and just hope for the best?
Six of one, half dozen of the other. I prefer to install the IMS Solution retrofit (currently have two in my personal stable), but if left with no choice but the oversized bearing, I would pull the trans, clutch, and flywheel and remove the bearing's rear seal so it can mist lubricate from the engine sump.
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Old 02-21-2020, 09:08 AM   #5
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Thanks, kind of the way I was leaning. Now, to find one.......
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Old 02-22-2020, 05:49 AM   #6
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Nothing wrong with the larger IMS. Just be sure you have oil change history and the changes were every 5-8K mi or annually if < 5K mi / yr.
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Old 02-22-2020, 04:12 PM   #7
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There is no debate. ANY 2006 car, or engine replaced in 2006 will carry the oversized non serviceable IMS bearing, period.
EPS made a tool to bore out the block so you can replace the oversized bearing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F21suRIQdvM

I am, however, concerned about getting metal shavings inside the block. I sure they have thought of that, but maybe for time compression decided not to show that in the video.
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Old 02-22-2020, 05:22 PM   #8
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EPS made a tool to bore out the block so you can replace the oversized bearing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F21suRIQdvM

I am, however, concerned about getting metal shavings inside the block. I sure they have thought of that, but maybe for time compression decided not to show that in the video.
Which weakens the cases and gets metal into the engine, and requires you use their flange. Besides which, it is unnecessary as engines running the oversized bearing with the rear seal removed do not suffer failures, so why bother?
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Old 02-22-2020, 05:38 PM   #9
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Which weakens the cases and gets metal into the engine, and requires you use their flange. Besides which, it is unnecessary as engines running the oversized bearing with the rear seal removed do not suffer failures, so why bother?
I'm not trying to debate the IMS failure/replacement issue. I've decided not to do mine, and I have a 2002, which has the highest failure rate.

I was just pointing out that, in fact, a company made it possible to service them.

And, I too, am concerned about metal shavings. But I'd be surprised if they don't have a way to address that possibility.

Weakening the case? Well, I don't know that strength is critical at that point. Especially since the hole will be filled in with a flange. Yes, their flange. Because the hole would then be bigger and you need a bigger flange that fits it. And obviously no one else makes it. If they did, I guess you could use their flange too.
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Old 02-23-2020, 06:45 AM   #10
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I'm not trying to debate the IMS failure/replacement issue. I've decided not to do mine, and I have a 2002, which has the highest failure rate.

I was just pointing out that, in fact, a company made it possible to service them.

And, I too, am concerned about metal shavings. But I'd be surprised if they don't have a way to address that possibility.

Weakening the case? Well, I don't know that strength is critical at that point. Especially since the hole will be filled in with a flange. Yes, their flange. Because the hole would then be bigger and you need a bigger flange that fits it. And obviously no one else makes it. If they did, I guess you could use their flange too.
Porsche uses two bolts hold the case togeather above and below this opening. Some years had so many oil leak complaints coming from around the IMS flange that they released a flange with an updated seal, and recommended replacing the case bolts with longer ones with sealant on the treads. They released a TSB on the subject, referring to movement of the cases due to thin casting in the area.

The company you mentioned also has a similar “fix” for leaking RMS which machines out the case crank opening to accept their proprietary crank seal.

LN has an update “kit” for the cars with the oversized bearings as well, which converts the engine to a serviceable IMS configuration. The engine does have to be disassembled to do the install, but any future service can be done through the factory case opening. No case modifications are involved.

At the end of the day, doing something just because you can is not always a good idea...
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Old 02-23-2020, 12:07 PM   #11
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At the end of the day, doing something just because you can is not always a good idea...
Agreed.
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Old 02-23-2020, 02:11 PM   #12
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LN has an update “kit” for the cars with the oversized bearings as well, which converts the engine to a serviceable IMS configuration. The engine does have to be disassembled to do the install, but any future service can be done through the factory case opening. No case modifications are involved.
Split the halves open, take the original bearing out, use a smaller bearing that can be extracted from the existing casing hole, and use some ring or half rings as shims to make a seat for the smaller bearing in the original bearing's hole? Did I guess that right?

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Old 02-23-2020, 02:53 PM   #13
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Any boring has to be super precise to maintain the angle of the crank and/or camshaft to case angle or the pressure on the bearing is likely to be off center creating a ball on race (or whatever design) contact that it was not designed for. So in addition to shavings and bearing selection, you have to worry about precision of machining. Do you have the tools and experience to do it right?
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Old 02-23-2020, 03:05 PM   #14
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Any boring has to be super precise to maintain the angle of the crank and/or camshaft to case angle or the pressure on the bearing is likely to be off center creating a ball on race (or whatever design) contact that it was not designed for. So in addition to shavings and bearing selection, you have to worry about precision of machining. Do you have the tools and experience to do it right?
Not that I plan on doing it, but they rent the tools that include a brace that bolts to the block so you have the proper alignment. Take a look at the video. Besides, you're not boring the bearing seat, you're boring a hole large enough so you can pull the bearing out. The part you bore out does not have any contact with the bearing once it's seated. Yes, I thought about shavings, too. But anyone who might be interested in doing it can ask them. I'm sure they have thought of it too.

:EDIT:
So here's what I found in the comments when someone asked about the metal shavings:

The reply from EPS:
"...The key to preventing the shaving from falling inside the engine is the boring tool used. The shaving are pushed out as the mill tool is cutting by the air that is exiting through the cutting flutes. The engine is pressurized from the inside through the oil drain hole with approx 15 PSI. The pressurized engine will have a constant air flow exiting at the boring site prohibiting any shaving from entering the engine. Therefore, our EPS IMS Bearing can be the external solution without dissembling your engine..."

I don't know if that's sufficient or not.

Someone also pointed out that the bearing itself also acts as a dam to block the shavings from getting in.

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Old 02-24-2020, 09:06 AM   #15
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At the end of the day, doing something just because you can is not always a good idea...
Wise words, just get that idea out of your head.. :-)
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Old 02-25-2020, 12:03 PM   #16
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Motor # for IMS research

We should all thank God for JFP in PA. Goodness, I don't know how he has the patience for all of us!! He is, without question, the most knowledgeable person on this forum and also reminds us to use good common sense. Thanks Jeff.
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Old 02-25-2020, 12:23 PM   #17
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We should all thank God for JFP in PA. Goodness, I don't know how he has the patience for all of us!! He is, without question, the most knowledgeable person on this forum and also reminds us to use good common sense. Thanks Jeff.
I'll second that. There are a few other people on here who share a plethora of solid information... and some common sense tips.
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Old 02-25-2020, 01:36 PM   #18
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Just so we're clear: I never said that one SHOULD do the IMS. In fact, I opted not to do my own, even though it's the model with the highest risk of failure.

I was simply pointing out that there is, in fact, a company that makes a tool to service the IMS bearings for the motors that people say cannot be serviced.

I have nothing against Jeff. I know he has more Porsche knowledge in his pinky finger than I do in my whole body. I was just factually correcting some of his comments so people who read this don't get misinformation. He said those engines have the "non serviceable IMS bearing, period." But in fact, it is serviceable. A company makes a tool for that. If one wants to it's up to them, although I wouldn't. Another time he claimed that the IMS Solutions is the only permanent solution. I pointed out it only had a 5 year warranty, and there's another company that also claims to have the permanent solution, with the same warranty.

If we're here to give people information, let's not limit them to just some of the information. Let's give them everything we can.

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Old 02-25-2020, 01:53 PM   #19
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Which bearing design used in those kits is more likely to do major internal to the engine damage if the bearing fails? And the warranty, is it good for the cost of the kit? I'd bet it doesn't cover labor or collateral damage.
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Old 02-25-2020, 02:03 PM   #20
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Which bearing design used in those kits is more likely to do major internal to the engine damage if the bearing fails? And the warranty, is it good for the cost of the kit? I'd bet it doesn't cover labor or collateral damage.
IMS Solutions covers only the part.

From their warranty:
IMS Solution LLC warrants that parts purchased from an authorized IMS Solution dealer or
distributor, that were installed by a qualified installer and that were installed in compliance with,
and precisely following, all guidelines and procedures, to include registration, set forth in the
product installation guide, are free from defects in materials and workmanship for five (5)
years/unlimited miles from the date of part installation for the single or dual row IMS Solution...

...REMEDIES
The sole and exclusive remedy against The IMS Solution LLC arising from this warranty is
limited to, at IMS Solution LLC’s option, replacement of the defective part
manufactured/produced by The IMS Solution LLC or refund of the WHOLESALE
purchase price of the IMS Solution LLC product. Non-IMS Solution LLC product
subcomponents ARE NOT covered by this warranty. ...

...IMS Solution LLC shall not be liable for incidental or consequential damage, including but
not limited to, rental car fees, loss of income; damage to vehicle, attachments, trailers and
cargoes; towing expenses; fees; or any liability with respect to any other person...

And the very interesting Exclusions:


...OTHER WARRANTY EXCLUSIONS:

...• Failures due to off-road or severe service applications, including but not limited to autocross,
drivers education, track days, or any race or competition or applications other than intended
by the manufacturer use will void warranty...

If you track it, you void the warranty.

I'm glad you asked the question. Made me do more research into it.

The full warranty info can be found here:
http://imsretrofit.com/warranty-registration-step-1/

:EDIT:
If you install yourself, you also void the warranty. No DIY. It has to be done by a "qualified installer"


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