10-14-2016, 07:17 PM
			
			
		 | 
		
			 
			#1
			
		 | 
	
 
	| 
			
			 Motorist & Coffee Drinker 
			
			
			
				
			
			
				 
				Join Date: Jul 2014 
				Location: Oklahoma 
				
				
					Posts: 3,943
				 
				
				
				
				
  
  
				     
			 
	 | 
	
	
	
		
		
			
			 
				
				Weekly Safety Tip
			 
			 
			
		
		
		
			Today I saw, heard, and felt a bad wreck right in front of my office. Both drivers could have prevented it. I did what I could to calm the truck driver. The Paramedic I work with did what he could to save the driver of the car. Our bodies do not tolerate lateral G-force very well. 
 - If you are driving and need to check your GPS/Map/Radio/Phone, do not do it just before an intersection.
 
- If you are at a traffic light and it turns green, pause and look for traffic before you drive into the intersection.
 
 
Today is the 23rd anniversary of a crash that changed my perspective on a lot of things. Being on the wrong side of a second or inch can change everything. As time slowed and my mind raced, the realization that there was no going back, no chance to change the outcome struck me hard. Everything had been fine a second ago and now I was locked in a crash sequence that was ruled by physics rather than my further actions. This was going to hurt.
 
I'm going to try to make a post once a week in this thread just to keep a little focus on safety for myself and any of my 986 friends that care to read it. Not to be preachy or gloomy, but to help fight complacency. Feel free to steal a week from me if you have a good tip to share. As sports car drivers, we all like to push the edge. Just keep an eye on that edge. The other side of it can suck.
 
		 
		
		
		
		
		
		
			
				__________________ 
				I am not an attorney, mechanic, or member of the clergy. Following any advice given in my posts is done at your own peril.
			 
		
		
		
		
	 | 
 
	
		
 
		
		
		
		
		 
	 | 
	
	
	
		
		
		
		
			 
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
			
		
		
		
	 | 
 
 
 
	 
	
		 
	 
 
	
	
		
	
	
	
		
			
			 
			10-14-2016, 07:42 PM
			
			
		 | 
		
			 
			#2
			
		 | 
	
 
	| 
			
			 Registered User 
			
			
			
				
			
			
				 
				Join Date: Aug 2016 
				Location: Oklahoma 
				
				
					Posts: 163
				 
				
				
				
				
				     
			 
	 | 
	
	
	
		
		
		
		 
			. 
. 
Thanks
		 
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
	 | 
 
	
		
 
		
		
		
		
		 
	 | 
	
	
	
		
		
		
		
			 
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
			
		
		
		
	 | 
 
 
 
	 
	
		 
	 
 
	
	
		
	
	
	
		
			
			 
			10-14-2016, 08:03 PM
			
			
		 | 
		
			 
			#3
			
		 | 
	
 
	| 
			
			 Registered User 
			
			
			
				
			
			
				 
				Join Date: May 2013 
				Location: North Alabama 
				
				
					Posts: 2,079
				 
				
				
				
				
				     
			 
	 | 
	
	
	
		
		
			
			 
				
				Bravo
			 
			 
			
		
		
		
			My daughter has been a Paramedic for 20 years....she said a week in her job and everyone would change their driving habits
		 
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
	 | 
 
	
		
 
		
		
		
		
		 
	 | 
	
	
	
		
		
		
		
			 
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
			
		
		
		
	 | 
 
 
 
	 
	
		 
	 
 
	
	
		
	
	
	
		
			
			 
			10-14-2016, 08:28 PM
			
			
		 | 
		
			 
			#4
			
		 | 
	
 
	| 
			
			 Registered User 
			
			
			
			
				 
				Join Date: Sep 2008 
				Location: Florida 
				
				
					Posts: 2,497
				 
				
				
				
				
				     
			 
	 | 
	
	
	
		
		
		
		 
			Thank you.
		 
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
	 | 
 
	
		
 
		
		
		
		
		 
	 | 
	
	
	
		
		
		
		
			 
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
			
		
		
		
	 | 
 
 
 
	 
	
		 
	 
 
	
	
		
	
	
	
		
			
			 
			10-14-2016, 09:23 PM
			
			
		 | 
		
			 
			#5
			
		 | 
	
 
	| 
			
			 Registered User 
			
			
			
				
			
			
				 
				Join Date: Sep 2006 
				Location: Omaha 
				
				
					Posts: 2,953
				 
				
				
				
				
				     
			 
	 | 
	
	
	
		
		
		
		 
			Monday was the 29th anniversary of a collision with a drunk driver.  I happened to be drinking Coke that night and had I not, my girl friend at the time and I would probably not be here.  I was able to avoid a head-on collision but his pickup still wiped out the passenger side of my car.  He hit me with so much force it pushed the entire front end of his pickup to the cab.  He blew a .17 but the judge let him off with probation.  My GF ended up in the hospital for 2 wks with a collapsed lung and broken rib.  She suffered more than he did.  It didn't seem fair. 
 
I consider Oct 10 my '2nd birthday'.  I was never one to enjoy the fall color changes, but this made me stop and look around a bit.  I've enjoyed the fall colors ever since.
		 
		
		
		
		
		
		
			
				__________________ 
				GPRPCA Chief Driving Instructor 
2008 Boxster S Limited Edition  #005 
2008 Cayman S Sport - Signal Green 
1989 928 S4 5 spd - black
			 
		
		
		
		
	 | 
 
	
		
 
		
		
		
		
		 
	 | 
	
	
	
		
		
		
		
			 
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
			
		
		
		
	 | 
 
 
 
	 
	
		 
	 
 
	
	
		
	
	
	
		
			
			 
			10-15-2016, 03:59 AM
			
			
		 | 
		
			 
			#6
			
		 | 
	
 
	| 
			
			 Master Brewer 
			
			
			
				
			
			
				 
				Join Date: Jun 2015 
				Location: Northern Ohio 
				
				
					Posts: 104
				 
				
				
				
				
  
  
				     
			 
	 | 
	
	
	
		
		
		
		 
			As a Corporate Safety Director for a large utility I often deal with the aftermath of poor decision making.  If I could give one tidbit of advice it would be to question your habits.  Just because nothing has happened doesn't mean you're doing it safely.  And remember, dead right and dead wrong are the same thing...
		 
		
		
		
		
		
		
			
				__________________ 
				____________________________________ 
2004 Boxster S Anniversary 550 Spyder 
2018 Porsche Macan (wife's ride) 
2004 Ford F-150 4X4 Crew 
6 Fast Bicycles
			 
		
		
		
		
	 | 
 
	
		
 
		
		
		
		
		 
	 | 
	
	
	
		
		
		
		
			 
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
			
		
		
		
	 | 
 
 
 
	 
	
		 
	 
 
	
	
		
	
	
	
		
			
			 
			10-15-2016, 09:02 AM
			
			
		 | 
		
			 
			#7
			
		 | 
	
 
	| 
			
			 1997 Tip, 2018 Macan 
			
			
			
				
			
			
				 
				Join Date: Aug 2015 
				Location: Upland, CA 
				
				
					Posts: 1,338
				 
				
				
				
				
  
  
				     
			 
	 | 
	
	
	
		
		
		
		 
			Force = mass * acceleration. Things can get out of hand quickly. Thanks for the reminder.
		 
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
	 | 
 
	
		
 
		
		
		
		
		 
	 | 
	
	
	
		
		
		
		
			 
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
			
		
		
		
	 | 
 
 
 
	 
	
		 
	 
 
	
	
		
	
	
	
		
			
			 
			10-17-2016, 12:59 PM
			
			
		 | 
		
			 
			#8
			
		 | 
	
 
	| 
			
			 Registered User 
			
			
			
			
				 
				Join Date: Nov 2013 
				
				
				
					Posts: 52
				 
				
				
				
				
  
  
				     
			 
	 | 
	
	
	
		
		
		
		
			Reading this makes my blood boil.    **** that guy and the skewed justice system. I'm so sorry for your GF; as a doc, I know that things often aren't fully healed and the journey isn't over after 2 weeks in the hospital.  I hope everything worked out for her! 
 
	Quote: 
	
	
		
			
				
					Originally Posted by  husker boxster
					 
				 
				Monday was the 29th anniversary of a collision with a drunk driver.  I happened to be drinking Coke that night and had I not, my girl friend at the time and I would probably not be here.  I was able to avoid a head-on collision but his pickup still wiped out the passenger side of my car.  He hit me with so much force it pushed the entire front end of his pickup to the cab.  He blew a .17 but the judge let him off with probation.  My GF ended up in the hospital for 2 wks with a collapsed lung and broken rib.  She suffered more than he did.  It didn't seem fair. 
 
I consider Oct 10 my '2nd birthday'.  I was never one to enjoy the fall color changes, but this made me stop and look around a bit.  I've enjoyed the fall colors ever since. 
			
		 | 
	 
	 
 
		 
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
	 | 
 
	
		
 
		
		
		
		
		 
	 | 
	
	
	
		
		
		
		
			 
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
			
		
		
		
	 | 
 
 
 
	 
	
		 
	 
 
	
	
		
	
	
	
		
			
			 
			10-17-2016, 05:06 PM
			
			
		 | 
		
			 
			#9
			
		 | 
	
 
	| 
			
			 Registered User 
			
			
			
			
				 
				Join Date: Jul 2013 
				Location: Bastrop, Tx 
				
				
					Posts: 2,644
				 
				
				
				
				
				     
			 
	 | 
	
	
	
		
		
		
		 
			90% of the wrecked boxsters I buy were wrecked by the driver. Don't get too confident in how well these cars can handle or brake
		 
		
		
		
		
		
		
			
				__________________ 
				Woody
			 
		
		
		
		
	 | 
 
	
		
 
		
		
		
		
		 
	 | 
	
	
	
		
		
		
		
			 
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
			
		
		
		
	 | 
 
 
 
	 
	
		 
	 
 
	
	
		
	
	
	
		
			
			 
			10-17-2016, 07:01 PM
			
			
		 | 
		
			 
			#10
			
		 | 
	
 
	| 
			
			 Registered User 
			
			
			
			
				 
				Join Date: May 2014 
				Location: S.California 
				
				
					Posts: 2,029
				 
				
				
				
				
				     
			 
	 | 
	
	
	
		
		
		
		 
			Hormones + alcohol = killer combo.
		 
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
	 | 
 
	
		
 
		
		
		
		
		 
	 | 
	
	
	
		
		
		
		
			 
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
			
		
		
		
	 | 
 
 
 
	 
	
		 
	 
 
	
	
		
	
	
	
		
			
			 
			10-18-2016, 06:18 PM
			
			
		 | 
		
			 
			#11
			
		 | 
	
 
	| 
			
			 1997 Tip, 2018 Macan 
			
			
			
				
			
			
				 
				Join Date: Aug 2015 
				Location: Upland, CA 
				
				
					Posts: 1,338
				 
				
				
				
				
  
  
				     
			 
	 | 
	
	
	
		
		
		
		
			
	Quote: 
	
	
		
			
				
					Originally Posted by  itsnotanova
					 
				 
				90% of the wrecked boxsters I buy were wrecked by the driver. Don't get too confident in how well these cars can handle or brake 
			
		 | 
	 
	 
 
That is a sobering statistic.
		  
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
	 | 
 
	
		
 
		
		
		
		
		 
	 | 
	
	
	
		
		
		
		
			 
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
			
		
		
		
	 | 
 
 
 
	 
	
		 
	 
 
	
	
		
	
	
	
		
			
			 
			10-23-2016, 10:58 AM
			
			
		 | 
		
			 
			#12
			
		 | 
	
 
	| 
			
			 Motorist & Coffee Drinker 
			
			
			
				
			
			
				 
				Join Date: Jul 2014 
				Location: Oklahoma 
				
				
					Posts: 3,943
				 
				
				
				
				
  
  
				     
			 
	 | 
	
	
	
		
		
			
			 
				
				Jacks and Jack Stands
			 
			 
			
		
		
		
			Many of us do a lot of our own repairs. One of the most significant hazards to working on cars is improper use of jacks and jack stands.  
 
 
When things are going badly in a repair job, I'm running into hours beyond what I had planned and just want to get it done, I have made a few mistakes and am lucky that I haven't been badly hurt or damaged my car. 
-Thought that I had the car off the jack stands, but still had one under the right rear. Drove it off. 
-Working outside on a slight slope, had a rolling jack roll with the car and fall over because I didn't chock a wheel. 
-Lifting an engine from the rear of an MR2 using the winch and boom on the back of my old truck. The engine stuck and pulled the car off the jack stands. I was standing between the car and truck and got pinned. Luckily it was a light car and my concern was extracting myself before my wife found out rather than my injury. 
:dance:
 
Here are a couple good videos:
 
From Neil_B
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=La6i3TwMB8k
From a Rennlist user
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFAqJ_3fwYg
Both mention a technique that works safely and is convenient. Using the rear jack point to raise the vehicle and place the front jack stand.
 
Here's the PelicanParts Tech Article:
 Jacking Up and Lifting the Porsche Boxster on Jack Stands | 986 / 987 (1997-08) | Pelican Parts Technical Article
Much of the work on a Boxster is done from underneath. As an additional precaution, I like to place a large block of wood or wheel under a car to assure a safe space if all else fails. ...and then check to be certain that Everything is removed from underneath the car before I lower it.
 
Some good posts here:  http://986forum.com/forums/general-discussions/60650-safe-place-jack-up-rear-boxster.html
Good reading if you are considering a lift:
 a car lift in your shop | Grumpys Performance Garage
Anyone have a tip or story to share?
		  
		
		
		
		
		
		
			
				__________________ 
				I am not an attorney, mechanic, or member of the clergy. Following any advice given in my posts is done at your own peril.
			 
		
		
		
		
	 | 
 
	
		
 
		
		
		
		
		 
	 | 
	
	
	
		
		
		
		
			 
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
			
		
		
		
	 | 
 
 
 
	 
	
		 
	 
 
	
	
		
	
	
	
		
			
			 
			10-23-2016, 11:34 AM
			
			
		 | 
		
			 
			#13
			
		 | 
	
 
	| 
			
			 Certified Boxster Addict 
			
			
			
			
				 
				Join Date: Nov 2010 
				Location: Los Angeles 
				
				
					Posts: 7,669
				 
				
				
				
				
				     
			 
	 | 
	
	
	
		
		
		
		
			
	Quote: 
	
	
		
			
				
					Originally Posted by  itsnotanova
					 
				 
				90% of the wrecked boxsters I buy were wrecked by the driver. Don't get too confident in how well these cars can handle or brake 
			
		 | 
	 
	 
 
Oh, the cars handle and brake extremely well and have capability well beyond the average driver. 
 
The problem is that everyone considers themselves to be above average. Until they aren't. And even then, it will be all about the tires or the conditions or the...
 
Driving skills are usually the weak link. Take a training course, do a few track days, get out there and learn some performance driving skills. Learn how to drive at the tires' limit whether they are new or old; learn how to adjust for weather; learn how to skid and slide and recover like a pro; and still go fast as hell. Its not just about having big balls.
		  
		
		
		
		
		
		
			
				__________________ 
				1999 996 C2 - sold - bought back - sold for more 
1997 Spec Boxster BSR #254 
1979 911 SC 
POC Licensed DE/TT Instructor
			 
		
		
		
		
		
			
				  
				
					
						Last edited by thstone; 10-23-2016 at 11:38 AM.
					
					
				
			
		
		
	 | 
 
	
		
 
		
		
		
		
		 
	 | 
	
	
	
		
		
		
		
			 
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
			
		
		
		
	 | 
 
 
 
	 
	
		 
	 
 
	
	
		
	
	
	
		
			
			 
			10-23-2016, 12:34 PM
			
			
		 | 
		
			 
			#14
			
		 | 
	
 
	| 
			
			 Registered User 
			
			
			
			
				 
				Join Date: Dec 2013 
				Location: Dahlonega , Georgia 
				
				
					Posts: 1,361
				 
				
				
				
				
				     
			 
	 | 
	
	
	
		
		
		
		 
			I don't really care for the ratchet style jack stands even though I own some. I also still have the pin type jack stands which I feel are much safer. But since purchasing a scissor lift I don't use either style .
		 
		
		
		
		
		
		
			
				__________________ 
				2002 Boxster S Arctic Silver with black top with glass window and black leather interior. Jake Raby 3.6 SS ( the beast ) with IMS Solution. 996 GT3 front bumper , GT3 rocker covers and GT3TEK rear diffuser and Joe Toth composites rear ducktail spoiler .
			 
		
		
		
		
	 | 
 
	
		
 
		
		
		
		
		 
	 | 
	
	
	
		
		
		
		
			 
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
			
		
		
		
	 | 
 
 
 
	 
	
		 
	 
 
	
	
		
	
	
	
		
			
			 
			10-23-2016, 02:44 PM
			
			
		 | 
		
			 
			#15
			
		 | 
	
 
	| 
			
			 Registered User 
			
			
			
				
			
			
				 
				Join Date: Aug 2016 
				Location: Oklahoma 
				
				
					Posts: 163
				 
				
				
				
				
				     
			 
	 | 
	
	
	
		
		
		
		 
			. 
MaN does this ever sound/look familiar. I’ve done all this stuff too many times to count. As you say. In a hurry mostly. 
The worst was when I installed a new shifter on my 56 Chevy. I was at my uncles house that had a home on a high bluff with a beautiful panoramic view. When I finished installing the shifter and let the car down off the jack stands I started into the house to wash up. But I stopped. I had better put the car into gear. But I didn’t. I had recently installed a new red leather tuck and roll interior and I didn’t wish to get grease on it. So I leaned my shoulder onto the door frame and tried to push it and being unable to push it I thought I was safe. I hurried into the house and before I returned my Chevy had rolled over the bluff. 
I learned an expensive lesson that day but I still take chances. Stupid. Stupid. Really is Stupid.
		 
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
	 | 
 
	
		
 
		
		
		
		
		 
	 | 
	
	
	
		
		
		
		
			 
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
			
		
		
		
	 | 
 
 
 
	 
	
		 
	 
 
	
	
		
	
	
	
		
			
			 
			10-23-2016, 06:23 PM
			
			
		 | 
		
			 
			#16
			
		 | 
	
 
	| 
			
			 Registered User 
			
			
			
				
			
			
				 
				Join Date: Sep 2006 
				Location: Omaha 
				
				
					Posts: 2,953
				 
				
				
				
				
				     
			 
	 | 
	
	
	
		
		
		
		
			
	Quote: 
	
	
		
			
				
					Originally Posted by  ttmedical
					 
				 
				Reading this makes my blood boil.    **** that guy and the skewed justice system. I'm so sorry for your GF; as a doc, I know that things often aren't fully healed and the journey isn't over after 2 weeks in the hospital.  I hope everything worked out for her!  
			
		 | 
	 
	 
 
I appreciate your concern.  She healed up nicely but there were many tough nights of no sleep due to the broken rib.
 
Then she broke up with me 3 mo later b/c I didn't give her a ring for Christmas.
		  
		
		
		
		
		
		
			
				__________________ 
				GPRPCA Chief Driving Instructor 
2008 Boxster S Limited Edition  #005 
2008 Cayman S Sport - Signal Green 
1989 928 S4 5 spd - black
			 
		
		
		
		
		
			
				  
				
					
						Last edited by husker boxster; 10-27-2016 at 05:36 AM.
					
					
				
			
		
		
	 | 
 
	
		
 
		
		
		
		
		 
	 | 
	
	
	
		
		
		
		
			 
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
			
		
		
		
	 | 
 
 
 
	 
	
		 
	 
 
	
	
		
	
	
	
		
			
			 
			10-23-2016, 08:22 PM
			
			
		 | 
		
			 
			#17
			
		 | 
	
 
	| 
			
			 Registered User 
			
			
			
				
			
			
				 
				Join Date: Sep 2013 
				Location: Chandler, AZ 
				
				
					Posts: 1,796
				 
				
				
				
				
				     
			 
	 | 
	
	
	
		
		
		
		 
			Just read a story about someone locally that died when his car he was working on fell on him. Don't take chances as it could be you!
		 
		
		
		
		
		
		
			
				__________________ 
				03 Carrera 
02 Boxster S Guards Red, black interior with matching hardtop 
89 Carrera 4 
89 944 S2 
78 911SC
			 
		
		
		
		
	 | 
 
	
		
 
		
		
		
		
		 
	 | 
	
	
	
		
		
		
		
			 
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
			
		
		
		
	 | 
 
 
 
	 
	
		 
	 
 
	
	
		
	
	
	
		
			
			 
			10-24-2016, 12:57 PM
			
			
		 | 
		
			 
			#18
			
		 | 
	
 
	| 
			
			 Registered User 
			
			
			
				
			
			
				 
				Join Date: Aug 2016 
				Location: Oklahoma 
				
				
					Posts: 163
				 
				
				
				
				
				     
			 
	 | 
	
	
	
		
		
		
		 
			. 
Once upon a time I purchased a brand new full time all wheel drive Bronco. I don’t think there were a whole lot of them around because I’ve seen supposedly knowledgable people online swearing none existed until they are proven wrong. The first time I got it out on the highway I realized the cruise control didn’t work. So I took it back to the dealer to have it repaired. I was in the waiting room but watching out a window into the shop. The mechanic put a floor jack under the differential and raised the rear of the truck real high in the air. I realized what he was about to do so I ran out into the shop screaming at the top of my lungs. I ask him are you getting ready to check the cruise control with the rear wheels off the ground and not the front. And he said yes. I said this is a full time all wheel vehicle, when you put it into gear it is going to drive off the jack. He said Ma’am I am a professionally trained Ford mechanic and I know what I’m doing, I do this all the time. So he crawled up into the truck and promptly ran it across the floor pinning another employee into his tool box. I don’t know if he shot the gas to it intentionally just to prove me wrong or if he panicked when he realized what was happening. It just pulled floor jack and all about 20 feet. Thankfully I had stepped to the side because it was clear to me what was about to happen. I only received a little scratch on my Bronco. They took the employee to the hospital, I never did hear how that came out. I think he may have had a broken leg. And possibly ribs. And the idiot professional mechanic ruined his Snap-On tool box, squashed it like a pancake.
		 
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
	 | 
 
	
		
 
		
		
		
		
		 
	 | 
	
	
	
		
		
		
		
			 
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
			
		
		
		
	 | 
 
 
 
	 
	
		 
	 
 
	
	
		
	
	
	
		
			
			 
			10-26-2016, 11:06 AM
			
			
		 | 
		
			 
			#19
			
		 | 
	
 
	| 
			
			 Registered User 
			
			
			
			
				 
				Join Date: Aug 2016 
				Location: USA 
				
				
					Posts: 149
				 
				
				
				
				
				     
			 
	 | 
	
	
	
		
		
		
		
			Martha, you lucky and the other tech weren't at this shop  
 
		 
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
	 | 
 
	
		
 
		
		
		
		
		 
	 | 
	
	
	
		
		
		
		
			 
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
			
		
		
		
	 | 
 
 
 
	 
	
		 
	 
 
	
	
		
	
	
	
		
			
			 
			10-29-2016, 02:21 AM
			
			
		 | 
		
			 
			#20
			
		 | 
	
 
	| 
			
			 Motorist & Coffee Drinker 
			
			
			
				
			
			
				 
				Join Date: Jul 2014 
				Location: Oklahoma 
				
				
					Posts: 3,943
				 
				
				
				
				
  
  
				     
			 
	 | 
	
	
	
		
		
		
		
			Street Racing    
For this weeks safety tip,  I'll just link rexcramer's thread:
 http://986forum.com/forums/general-discussions/64027-another-reminder-save-racing-track.html
It comes up a few times a year in the forum and almost always gets ugly.
		  
		
		
 
		
		
		
		
			
				__________________ 
				I am not an attorney, mechanic, or member of the clergy. Following any advice given in my posts is done at your own peril.
			 
		
		
		
		
	 | 
 
	
		
 
		
		
		
		
		 
	 | 
	
	
	
		
		
		
		
			 
		
		
		
		
		
		
		
			
		
		
		
	 | 
 
 
 
	 
	
		 
	 
 
 
	
		
	
	
	
	
	
		
	
		 
		Posting Rules
	 | 
 
	
		
		You may not post new threads 
		You may not post replies 
		You may not post attachments 
		You may not edit your posts 
		 
		
		
		
		
		HTML code is On 
		 
		
	  | 
 
 
	 | 
	
		
	 | 
 
 
All times are GMT -8. The time now is 04:10 PM. 
		 
	 
 
	
	
		
	
	
 
 |    |