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Old 08-31-2016, 04:43 PM   #1
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Couple more questions on rear lowering

1) the ball joint at the end of the toe arm on one side is stuck. I put a little liquid wrench on it and walked away. Any other tips. I am using a remover.
2) I started trying to remove the ball joint on the LCA and it wouldn't budge. Granted I did not go full fury on it because I wAs afraid of breaking the bolt. Can I use an impact wrench? Suggestions?
Thanks in advance.
David

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Old 09-01-2016, 03:42 PM   #2
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Now I'm screwed. The ball joint bolt that connects the toe arm to the wheel carrier is all messed up. It came out with such force something not distorted. Nut fits on both sides so nut ok. Can see any issue on bolt threads and it looks straight. Please advise. If I need to trailer to indie, what do I need to reattach. I disconnect axle to tranny. Calipers, strut bolt to carrier, loosened 3 bolts to strut mount and aluminum diagonal braces.
Thanks in advance.
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Old 09-01-2016, 05:00 PM   #3
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Suggestions:

1. Picture of problem would help? (Are you able to post pictures on 986forum?)
2. Keeping all your questions about the project on one thread would also help as people will have context and no need to repeat all the project details?

This also helps organize the forum better to keep posts related to one topic (e.g., questions about your suspension lowering/service project planning and specific help questions) to one thread. It could avoid having all these threads seemingly related to your current project consolidated into one:
http://986forum.com/forums/general-discussions/62962-couple-more-questions-rear-lowering.html
http://986forum.com/forums/general-discussions/62955-nut-size-bilstein-hd.html
http://986forum.com/forums/general-discussions/62932-lowering-rear-boxster.html
http://986forum.com/forums/general-discussions/62756-drilling-out-easy-out.html
http://986forum.com/forums/general-discussions/62746-front-strut-help.html
http://986forum.com/forums/general-discussions/62699-strut.html
http://986forum.com/forums/general-discussions/62719-spring-question.html
http://986forum.com/forums/general-discussions/62661-stahl-wille-sf12623-two-stage-tie-rod-tool.html
http://986forum.com/forums/general-discussions/62667-spring-removal-hail-mary.html
http://986forum.com/forums/general-discussions/62564-springs-por15.html
http://986forum.com/forums/general-discussions/62336-lowering-2000-s-help.html

(Note that I'm not suggesting you not ask for help, but consider organizing those questions better into a related thread, to make the forum organization better and also allow contributors to better understand the context of your questions.)

To answer your question about removing the nut (this is not a "bolt"!) on the ball joint, I would not hesitate to put a properly fitting closed-end wrench on it, and give it a good whack with a BFH (big *** hammer.). If the nut turns without loosening, that's a different problem which can be addressed by either inserting into (and counter-holding against) the threaded shaft using the properly sized Allen wrench, or putting a floor jack under the ball joint and applying upwards pressure to provide some additional friction in the ball joint (to help promote the ball joint shaft keeping still). The spherical bearing on the end of the toe arm is called a "rod end", by the way, not a ball joint.

If you have successfully removed the nut, then you could use a ball joint separator tool. This low cost one from harbor freight fits the rod ends perfectly (but will need some enlargement of the inside diameter to properly fit the ball joint). Grease the threads and the metal to metal contact points with an EP (extreme pressure) grease, and push it in fully against the rod end or ball joint (so you give the ball joint removal tool as much leverage as possible.)
http://t.harborfreight.com/3-4-quarter-inch-forged-ball-joint-separator-99849.html?utm_referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.c om%2F

Other tools you could use are something called a pickle fork, but they will damage the spherical bearing's rubber boot, and necessitate new parts replacement. (The joint removed with a pickle fork should not be use-used because the boot will get damaged.) I would recommend a properly fitting ball joint separator instead of a pickle fork.

Best of luck!
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Last edited by jakeru; 09-01-2016 at 08:06 PM.
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Old 09-01-2016, 05:32 PM   #4
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Sorry I tend to put questions into buckets. Point noted. Will try to oblige.
Ok, the rod end is removed from the carrier. The nut will not go back on. It turns on about
A 1/2 turn and then it stops. The threads look fine and the bolt is straight. No visual reason it should go on. Stump.
Thanks for responding.
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Old 09-01-2016, 05:42 PM   #5
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That nut (if the one I'm picturing is correct) is a locking nut. The locking feature on the nut is designed to bind (to some degree) with the threaded shaft. This friction can be enough on rod ends and ball joints to cause the spherical bearings to rotate, which prevents the nut from threading on all the way. The top of the threaded shaft should have a recess where you can insert an Allen wrench (or maybe it was a torx-style wrench, I can't remember but you can verify the visual appearance.)

Is that your problem?

It's actually good to have locking nuts being re-used bind noticeably upon reassembly. It gives confirmation that the locking feature isn't worn out. (If it doesn't bind noticeably, it's a good idea to replace with new locking nut.)
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Old 09-01-2016, 05:47 PM   #6
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It is a locking nut. The other side goes down quite a bit before it starts to lock, like 5 turns or so. Maybe I just force it on and hope for the best.
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Old 09-01-2016, 06:04 PM   #7
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No forcing post up a few pictures if you can and we can help you figure your next move. If you can't post any, can you email or text? I'll help.you post them so you can get some more eyes looking at it.

It sounds like you got the nut off and the ball joint removed, but now you can't thread the nut back on at all? (Should be able to thread a few turns before hitting the locking end). It might be the nut that got damaged if you pressed on it with the ball joint tool...

Try it with another nut to see.

If you had this much trouble just with the toe arm ball joint, I would strongly consider when doing the LCA you remove the bolt at the other end to gain your movement instead of the ball joint end. The lca ball joint end, for me, was much harder than the toe end
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Old 09-01-2016, 06:27 PM   #8
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Sorry, I'm learning the lingo. I haven't got to ball joint yet. I guess it is the rod end I removed from the carrier side. The toe rod is no longer connected to carrier. That bolt won't take a nut now. I probably should have left the nut on I was taking off with removing tool. I'll keep you all posted. On this post. 😉
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Old 09-02-2016, 03:52 AM   #9
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Is the rod end tapered or the nut that goes on it. I am thinking I have 3 possible choices.
1) use the bit I bought to get an easy out out and grind off the first row or two of threads.
2) get a tap/die that is that bolt size and try to get it on a couple turns.
3) replace toe arm.
Suggestions?
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Old 09-02-2016, 04:16 AM   #10
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Bolt is tapered about 1/2 way down (roughly).
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Old 09-02-2016, 06:58 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DWBOX2000 View Post
It is a locking nut. The other side goes down quite a bit before it starts to lock, like 5 turns or so. Maybe I just force it on and hope for the best.
I don't know why you don't post pictures of your problems it'd really help. But the above reply is the description of a DEFORMED THREAD LOCKNUT. The LAST thread is intentionally deformed, if you look closely you may see the top is oval shape. Install easy side first, then the last threads engage by friction and prevent the nut from loosening. Hence why it's called a locknut and is one time use.

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Old 09-02-2016, 09:13 AM   #12
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I have 2 12 x 1.5 nuts. They both go on the other track (toe) rod end no problem (left side of car). Neither will go on the one that is not working (right side). It's not a nut problem. Well if you don't count me 😀.

I am going to try and use a die to get the threads to work. The bolt appears straight when compared to a straight edge and the threads look ok. I think whatever is blocking the nut is minimal, or maybe I am just hoping.

I'm open to other suggestions.

I'm doing my best here, please remember that. I do taxes for a living, nothing mechanical so I am way out of my element here. Just a guy trying to save a buck.
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Old 09-02-2016, 04:28 PM   #13
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It sounds like you have a buggered thread on your tie-rod end. Sure, if you have the correct fitting die, use it.

The re-threading tools we were talking about in one of your other threads include basically an oversized die (the one I am holding in the picture below is the M12x1.5mm, FYI) and also thread files (the 1.5mm pitch thread file is also pictured), which are two options in terms of tools you can use to fix this sort of problems.

The rethreading die, as you probably know, just threads on. When doing so, it will shave off offending "buggered" metal. The thread file, you hold perpendicularly to the offending buggered metal parts, and push it across to shave. You can focus right on the area that needs it. One handy feature of the thread file is it works on any diameter threaded shaft (but you do need to match the thread pitch, obviously, and also it won't work on female threads.). At times when I haven't had the right diameter rethreading die, the thread files have come to the rescue for thread restoration.

If you have enough skill and patience, and can see well enough to know exactly what metal needs having off (and hopefully also don't have a lot of material to remove) you can even use a "needle file" (very small/precise file) like in this kit: http://t.harborfreight.com/12-piece-needle-file-set-468.html

Other options are to just force on the nut (ideally a "sacrificial" non-locking nut, which you'd throw away afterwards - as it may become damaged - forced on with some grease or anti-seize, especially after being installed and removed a few times, may help push those buggered threads back to their proper position), or of course, to replace the part with the buggered threads with a new one.

By the way, you said you can't see the buggered threads, but since you tried on multiple nuts and they all bind, this is evidence indicating there are indeed buggered threads, so you probably just aren't looking closely enough or you would see them. If you had a thread file, use use a die, it would shave wherever the threads are buggered, which may facilitate identification of the buggered threads, (as where the metal gets shaved off it will appear different, usually shinier.)
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Old 09-02-2016, 08:28 PM   #14
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Bolt is fixed. Friend just put on slowly. Comes on and off now. I probably would have done that a week ago before my broken bolt problem.
Thanks everyone for all the help and patience. I really appreciate it. I
David
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Old 09-03-2016, 04:02 PM   #15
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As Steve suggested, I am going to try and take the bolt off from the other side of the LCA (non ball joint side) Before I get there, I need to remove the bolt that's connects the trailing arm from the control arm. That nut does not want to budge. I put liquid wrench on it an will let it sit. Can I apply heat to the nuts to get them to expand a little so they might be easier to loosen. Any chance me snapping those bolts? That bolt is a 118 ft lb so will I need a pipe to loosen?
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Old 09-03-2016, 04:43 PM   #16
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You need a breaker bar for the bolt (bottom side) and another wrench to counterhold the nut on top. But you can break it loose probably without counterholding. I forget the sizes though... The breaker bar is key
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Old 09-03-2016, 04:48 PM   #17
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Some details on that bolt:

http://986forum.com/forums/diy-project-guides/60057-rear-trailing-arms-replacement-guide-diy.html

I think the sizes are right, 18mm and 21mm
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Old 09-03-2016, 05:45 PM   #18
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I was able to get the bolt to turn. I put a socket on the top of the bolt instead of the nut. Nut was on top side.

I watched and read your posting. Thanks.

I think I just need to remove the bolt that holds the trailing arm to control arm. Should I expect the bolt to just fall out when nut is removed? When I go to put back in later, will I need to put some load on the LCA by putting a jack under the control arm and raising. Might seem like dumb questions but it helps when I know what to expect. I am assuming I do not need to touch the front bolt on the trailing arm.
Thanks,
David
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Old 09-03-2016, 05:51 PM   #19
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Correct, Don't touch the front bolt of the trailing arm. The bolt just drops out, for reassembly it may be easier if the suspension is loaded but not required. That bolt will probably be one of the last bolts when putting it all back.together.
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Old 09-04-2016, 05:08 AM   #20
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Bolts are out and trAiling arms are free. Appears they will pop right back in. Does the washer on the bolt end of the bolt that holds the control arm to the body keep the control arm from dropping lower. Why doesn't the wheel carrier end just drop? What holds it in it lowest point. Nothing else currently connected to control arm?

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