03-09-2016, 06:44 AM
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#21
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Riverside, CA
Posts: 1,665
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomonomics
Isn't the point of the oil filter to 'filter' bits of metal (and any other foreign object of a certain size)?
Or are you trying to attract pieces of metal that are smaller than (x)micron that the filter won't contain, as someone mentioned above.
Just confused as to why this is needed inside the filter, as opposed to a better filter that would contain these sized particles in the first place.
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Filters are a compromise between catching small enough particles vs keeping a good oil flow rate especially when the oil is cold.
When I dissected the filter I would expect some of that magnetic type sludge to be caught in the filter element itself but the filter element seemed clear of those size particles so I can only assume they are passing through the filter element.
I'd rather catch this stuff with the magnets and not let it circulate through the bearings and stuck on the cylinder walls. Its like having 600 grit sand paper passing through the engine....no thanks, lets get rid of that stuff and have longer bearing life and higher compression for a longer time.
If you could pay $30 one time to make your engine last another 20,000 miles or perhaps much more, what would that be worth to you?
It will not even effect your warranty and with the magnets being external if it fails for some reason there is no chance of damaging anything.
That's the point! $30, DIY in 15min, no downside, only benefits. You can't loose on this one.
__________________
"It broke because it wants to be Upgraded "
2012 Porsche Performance Driving School - SanDiego region
2001 Boxster S, Top Speed muffler, (Fred's) Mini Morimotto Projectors, Tarret UDP,
Short Shifter, Touch Screen Dual Din Radio, 03 4 Bow glass Top (DD & Auto-X since May 17,2012)
Last edited by jb92563; 03-09-2016 at 06:49 AM.
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03-09-2016, 06:47 AM
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#22
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Riverside, CA
Posts: 1,665
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Santafe
I think this is a great idea guys, can't wait to try it, just have to be careful not to park over a manhole or drain cover.
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OMG, the horror!
LOL
__________________
"It broke because it wants to be Upgraded "
2012 Porsche Performance Driving School - SanDiego region
2001 Boxster S, Top Speed muffler, (Fred's) Mini Morimotto Projectors, Tarret UDP,
Short Shifter, Touch Screen Dual Din Radio, 03 4 Bow glass Top (DD & Auto-X since May 17,2012)
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03-09-2016, 06:50 AM
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#23
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: NJ
Posts: 247
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Quote:
Originally Posted by particlewave
Pore diameter in the filter media is restricted by the need for fluid flow. In other words, there are many ferrous metal particles that are small enough to fit through the pores of the filter media and if those pores are made smaller, the oil will not flow freely enough and/or the filter will become clogged by debris prematurely and cause either complete filter bypass or oil starvation.
Magnets in oil filtration systems are actually pretty common, just not on passenger cars.
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I've seen them in transmissions, as you're expecting more particles there, but if you've got that much metal in your engine oil, you've got other problems.
Also, while it seems these are crazy strong magnets, I'd still be concerned that oil flow + a large pothole would release a clump of the sludge all at once, which would be more likely to cause a stroke. As opposed to Coumadin (frequent oil changes).
I recall from my Miata days some Blackstone comparisons in oil samples from magnetized filters, but I can't find it. (no pictures, so it didn't happen!)
Last edited by tomonomics; 03-09-2016 at 06:54 AM.
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03-09-2016, 08:58 AM
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#24
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: It's a kind of magic.....
Posts: 6,501
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomonomics
I've seen them in transmissions, as you're expecting more particles there, but if you've got that much metal in your engine oil, you've got other problems.
Also, while it seems these are crazy strong magnets, I'd still be concerned that oil flow + a large pothole would release a clump of the sludge all at once, which would be more likely to cause a stroke. As opposed to Coumadin (frequent oil changes).
I recall from my Miata days some Blackstone comparisons in oil samples from magnetized filters, but I can't find it. (no pictures, so it didn't happen!)
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All internal combustion engines generate a fine ferrous grit as a normal offshoot of parts wear and tear. A major problem is that most of this material is very fine, so fine that it can pass right through an OEM oil filter, and continue to accumulate over time.
Magnets on the outside of the filter housings see all the oil before it passes into the filter media (oil flow is from the outside to the inside in these filters), trapping this material. And if some compressed grit did pop loose, which I serious doubt happens, its first stop would be in the filter.
Serious racers have used filter magnets for years, both to limit the circulation of the grit, but also as a diagnostic tool for checking on the engine's general health.
__________________
“Anything really new is invented only in one’s youth. Later, one becomes more experienced, more famous – and more stupid.” - Albert Einstein
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03-10-2016, 06:26 AM
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#25
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Theoretical propagandist
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 793
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One of the best DYI mods I have seen in quite a while. Elegant and purposeful. I haven't tinkered with the box in a while, this would be a great one to do as well as on other rigs.
__________________
When life throws you curves, aim for the apex...
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03-10-2016, 09:18 AM
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#26
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On the slippery slope
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Austin and Palm Springs
Posts: 3,797
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Ordered my magnets today
__________________
2004 Boxster S 6 speed - DRL relay hack, Polaris AutoTop DIY
2004 996 Targa Tip
Instructor - San Diego region
2014 Porsche Performance Driving School
2020 BMW X3, 2013 Ram 1500, 2016 Cmax, 2004 F-150 "Big Red"
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03-10-2016, 09:20 AM
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#27
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On the slippery slope
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Austin and Palm Springs
Posts: 3,797
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pdwight
Thanks Steve, I think the duty rating on this is 170C in temp. Is the thickness of a truck tire inner tube...or perhaps a bit thicker....time will tell
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Dwight, where did you get the heat shrink?
__________________
2004 Boxster S 6 speed - DRL relay hack, Polaris AutoTop DIY
2004 996 Targa Tip
Instructor - San Diego region
2014 Porsche Performance Driving School
2020 BMW X3, 2013 Ram 1500, 2016 Cmax, 2004 F-150 "Big Red"
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03-10-2016, 09:39 AM
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#28
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On the slippery slope
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Austin and Palm Springs
Posts: 3,797
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Tinker
If that is standard electrical heatshrink, I doubt if it will be robust enough to withstand the +/- 100 deg C oil temperature for very long. You will find it may go brittle & fatigue with extended high temps - at least it does on electrical joints that suffer a high resistance fault.
Personally I would have used S/S hose clamps to secure the magnets.
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I don't believe the oil filter housing will get anywhere near that temp
The oil in the engine, sure, but not the outside of the filter housing
__________________
2004 Boxster S 6 speed - DRL relay hack, Polaris AutoTop DIY
2004 996 Targa Tip
Instructor - San Diego region
2014 Porsche Performance Driving School
2020 BMW X3, 2013 Ram 1500, 2016 Cmax, 2004 F-150 "Big Red"
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03-10-2016, 12:38 PM
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#29
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Riverside, CA
Posts: 1,665
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FYI: The Samarium Cobalt magnets are better for high temp locations.
Since Oil temps can reach about 240C the Neodium Magnets may be ok
on the outside of the filter as they tolerate up to 175 C, anything inside will need the SmCo which can stand 250 C temps without losing magnetism.
I used the SmCo magnets on the outside of the filter and they are proven to work, and I'll never have to replace them. I think the set of 7 were about $30, but I can't find the source where I got them from at the moment.
__________________
"It broke because it wants to be Upgraded "
2012 Porsche Performance Driving School - SanDiego region
2001 Boxster S, Top Speed muffler, (Fred's) Mini Morimotto Projectors, Tarret UDP,
Short Shifter, Touch Screen Dual Din Radio, 03 4 Bow glass Top (DD & Auto-X since May 17,2012)
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03-10-2016, 12:47 PM
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#30
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Custom User Title Here
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Ft. Leonard Wood
Posts: 6,164
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The maximum operating temperature for the neodymium magnets which Dwight linked is claimed to be 302°F.
Time will tell...
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https://youtube.com/@UnwindTimeVintageWatchMuseum
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03-10-2016, 01:13 PM
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#31
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On the slippery slope
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Austin and Palm Springs
Posts: 3,797
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You can grab the oil filter housing with your hand, even when the engine is hot, so it does not get anywhere near the oil temp
__________________
2004 Boxster S 6 speed - DRL relay hack, Polaris AutoTop DIY
2004 996 Targa Tip
Instructor - San Diego region
2014 Porsche Performance Driving School
2020 BMW X3, 2013 Ram 1500, 2016 Cmax, 2004 F-150 "Big Red"
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03-10-2016, 02:36 PM
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#32
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Queensland, Australia
Posts: 1,522
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jb92563
Since Oil temps can reach about 240C the Neodium Magnets may be ok
on the outside of the filter as they tolerate up to 175 C, anything inside will need the SmCo which can stand 250 C temps without losing magnetism.
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I doubt very much the oil reaches 240 deg C - I wouldn't want my oil more that 120 max....
JayG - you must have asbestos palms !!
__________________
2001 Boxster S (triple black). Sleeping easier with LN Engineering/Flat 6 IMS upgrade, low temp thermostat & underspeed pulley.
2001 MV Agusta F4.
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03-10-2016, 02:51 PM
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#33
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Custom User Title Here
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Ft. Leonard Wood
Posts: 6,164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Tinker
I doubt very much the oil reaches 240 deg C - I wouldn't want my oil more that 120 max....
JayG - you must have asbestos palms !!
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I think he meant Fahrenheit
Quote:
Originally Posted by JayG
You can grab the oil filter housing with your hand, even when the engine is hot, so it does not get anywhere near the oil temp
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Mine will be inside the canister, so hopefully it will maintain strength at oil operating temp.
__________________
https://youtube.com/@UnwindTimeVintageWatchMuseum
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03-10-2016, 06:22 PM
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#34
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2013
Location: North Alabama
Posts: 2,079
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JayG
Dwight, where did you get the heat shrink?
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That was the most difficult to find, lots of folks have 4 inch heat shrink.....but they want you to buy a roll at several hundred dollars..............but ;
https://www.wirecare.com/product.asp?pn=WC53706020
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03-10-2016, 07:16 PM
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#35
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Motorist & Coffee Drinker
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 3,857
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Looks good. I have 2 done so far with the hose clamp. Heatshrink tubing looks like a great idea.
To initially apply the magnets, I used JB KwikWeld. I did them one after the other doing opposing sides of the housing. Even so, they started to slump towards each other a little until I put on zip-tie and the tape. The JB Weld alone may hold, but I am going to do the heatshrink.
__________________
I am not an attorney, mechanic, or member of the clergy. Following any advice given in my posts is done at your own peril.
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03-10-2016, 09:04 PM
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#36
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Riverside, CA
Posts: 1,665
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jb92563
FYI: The Samarium Cobalt magnets are better for high temp locations.
Since Oil temps can reach about 240C the Neodium Magnets may be ok
on the outside of the filter as they tolerate up to 175 C, anything inside will need the SmCo which can stand 250 C temps without losing magnetism.
I used the SmCo magnets on the outside of the filter and they are proven to work, and I'll never have to replace them. I think the set of 7 were about $30, but I can't find the source where I got them from at the moment.
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Ooops, correction those engine oil temps are 240 F not C, however the magnet temps are in deg C so 175 C = 347 F so the Neodium Magnets are also well within their range and will do just fine.
Thanks for catching that guys.
__________________
"It broke because it wants to be Upgraded "
2012 Porsche Performance Driving School - SanDiego region
2001 Boxster S, Top Speed muffler, (Fred's) Mini Morimotto Projectors, Tarret UDP,
Short Shifter, Touch Screen Dual Din Radio, 03 4 Bow glass Top (DD & Auto-X since May 17,2012)
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03-11-2016, 05:51 AM
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#37
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2013
Location: North Alabama
Posts: 2,079
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Good news
SO now once these super magnets magnetize or polarize the minute metal particles we have to figure out a way to turn them into Nanites and program them to constantly sacrifice themselves to constantly rebuild the IMS and other bearing surfaces and then our Boxsters will last forever....of course if we had that tecnology we could sell it and buy Porsche LLC
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03-11-2016, 06:54 AM
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#38
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Riverside, CA
Posts: 1,665
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__________________
"It broke because it wants to be Upgraded "
2012 Porsche Performance Driving School - SanDiego region
2001 Boxster S, Top Speed muffler, (Fred's) Mini Morimotto Projectors, Tarret UDP,
Short Shifter, Touch Screen Dual Din Radio, 03 4 Bow glass Top (DD & Auto-X since May 17,2012)
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03-12-2016, 05:52 PM
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#39
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Custom User Title Here
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Ft. Leonard Wood
Posts: 6,164
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Here's mine. 3/4" high temp disc, stuck on top of the existing disc which is a bit weak. I wanted to go 1" to fill the whole cup on the bottom of the filter element, but couldn't find 1" in high temp.
This thing is crazy strong...interested to see what it pulls out.
__________________
https://youtube.com/@UnwindTimeVintageWatchMuseum
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03-14-2016, 12:43 PM
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#40
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On the slippery slope
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Austin and Palm Springs
Posts: 3,797
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super fast shipping from KJM. Ordered Thursday and they just arrived !
Had a quick look at their website today and the magnets are on sale for 20% off today
If you want to save some $ on shipping, select USPS regular mail ($5.00 shipping) instead of their default fedex.
__________________
2004 Boxster S 6 speed - DRL relay hack, Polaris AutoTop DIY
2004 996 Targa Tip
Instructor - San Diego region
2014 Porsche Performance Driving School
2020 BMW X3, 2013 Ram 1500, 2016 Cmax, 2004 F-150 "Big Red"
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