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Old 02-21-2016, 08:32 AM   #1
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Hi, you saw the other thread where I bought this little Red 98 Base, and now I need to enlist some knowledge and help.

I'm trying to get it in my garage to start work, but with no helpers, it's not getting too far.

So far I have charged the three year old NAPA battery, got the hard top off, got access to the top of the engine, and have been successfully able to get it to idle - just really poorly. The PO said they had tried changing the plugs. As you can see from the attached video, it is really missing. Giving it any gas just stalls the engine. I tried disconnecting the MAF sensor, but it made no difference, and I don't know that it would without driving it. My first guess is bad plugs or coils. Or poorly installed.

Any opinions based on what you're seeing? Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks, Tom




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Old 02-21-2016, 08:35 AM   #2
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I also see a small amount of smoke coming from the engine compartment
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Old 02-21-2016, 09:08 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tada View Post
Hi, you saw the other thread where I bought this little Red 98 Base, and now I need to enlist some knowledge and help.

I'm trying to get it in my garage to start work, but with no helpers, it's not getting too far.

So far I have charged the three year old NAPA battery, got the hard top off, got access to the top of the engine, and have been successfully able to get it to idle - just really poorly. The PO said they had tried changing the plugs. As you can see from the attached video, it is really missing. Giving it any gas just stalls the engine. I tried disconnecting the MAF sensor, but it made no difference, and I don't know that it would without driving it. My first guess is bad plugs or coils. Or poorly installed.

Any opinions based on what you're seeing? Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks, Tom


Scan it, if it is missing, there has to be codes.
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Old 02-21-2016, 09:15 AM   #4
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Vacuum leak
Dirty Idle Control Valve
Dirty TB

Or all of the above
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Old 02-21-2016, 09:17 AM   #5
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I have scanned and scanned. It is throwing no codes. No CEL when it idles, while all other indicator lights stay illuminated. I'll start looking fo vacuum leaks.
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Old 02-21-2016, 09:19 AM   #6
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I would invest in a durametric and see what values you are getting for timing or codes for misfires etc.
A regular ODBII scanner won't show all the other good Porsche codes.

With this little info it would be hard to know where to start and just replacing everything till you get the faulty part could be costly on a Porsche.

IF it is misfiring it could be coil packs, Crank position sensor, spark wires on on wrong plugs, sliipped timing chain, air leaks, MAF, throttle position sensor, wiring fault(broken or grounded or no ground), loose sensor/computer connector etc
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Old 02-21-2016, 09:32 AM   #7
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I'll invest in a Durametric. I've been using an iCarsoft POR II.
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Old 02-21-2016, 12:14 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by jb92563 View Post
I would invest in a durametric and see what values you are getting for timing or codes for misfires etc.
A regular ODBII scanner won't show all the other good Porsche codes.

With this little info it would be hard to know where to start and just replacing everything till you get the faulty part could be costly on a Porsche.

IF it is misfiring it could be coil packs, Crank position sensor, spark wires on on wrong plugs, sliipped timing chain, air leaks, MAF, throttle position sensor, wiring fault(broken or grounded or no ground), loose sensor/computer connector etc
Quote:
I'll invest in a Durametric. I've been using an iCarsoft POR II.
Good move buying the Durametric.

Odd that it would run that badly and not have a code.

I know how it feels to have a 'new' car sitting there, not running right. Do not rush and blindly attack it from all sides. Have a process and troubleshoot. You sound like you know the basics.

I'd recommend not running it any more than you have to to troubleshoot it. Bad misfires can be hard on the engine.

Some productive things to do while you wait for the Durametric:
Replace all the spark plugs - not too expensive and probably about due anyway.
>>>Edit: just re-read where you said the PO already replaced them. Still worth verifying they are new/correct/connected right.<<<
Check the vacuum tubing to see if it it brittle. On my 01 as I replaced one section, another broke. Replace it all while you have down time.
I think this diagram is for the 00-04, but mostly the same:



Totally unrelated to the problem, but worth doing: remove the front bumper and clean the radiators. See youtube for a few examples.
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Last edited by 78F350; 02-21-2016 at 12:43 PM.
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Old 02-21-2016, 03:07 PM   #9
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Try checking the oil fill tube and the dipstick tube - both known to get brittle and break, causing a large vacuum leak and rough idle.
To check the oil fill tube, remove the oil fill cap when engine is idling and you should feel / hear a slight vacuum and a stumbling of the engine.
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Old 02-21-2016, 03:55 PM   #10
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Another shot in the dark:
http://986forum.com/forums/general-discussions/54131-does-bad-fuel-pump-thow-code.html

...or maybe contaminated (water) fuel. I had an old Ford that had so much cr@p in the fuel filter, it would die out when I accelerated.
DIY Fuel filter replacement:
Porsche Boxster Fuel Filter Replacement - 986 / 987 (1997-08) - Pelican Parts Technical Article
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Old 02-21-2016, 04:18 PM   #11
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Wow, that sounds like a 1923 Case Tractor!
I thought it was an exhaust leak until you showed a closeup of the engine shaking. That's missing on more than one cylinder. Are there any components that control each "bank" of cylinders separately?
Best of luck tracking down the culprit. You'll get it.
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Old 03-02-2016, 07:02 AM   #12
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Well, here's a small update, a chance for me to vent, and maybe some humor.

First let it be known that I am not a Certified Porsche Technician and probably never will be. I say that because whenever I speak with any indy or Porsche dealer about my car, usually just in regards to getting parts like a oil drain plug crush washer or the tow eye, I am told repeatedly that I am not a Certified Porsche Technician and that I should just drag my car into them for repair. Ok, enough.

I was able to finally get some help pushing the car into the garage. Got the rear up on jack stands. As I quickly found out, my floor jack which I had used for years, was not low profile enough to get under the car. Harbor Freight is my friend. Got the 2 ton low profile jack. Started on the passenger side checking the plugs, coil packs, and spark plug tubes. The passenger side of the engine was covered in oil. I changed out the tubes (that was fun) and found just a little compression of the seals. I changed the plugs and ohmed out the coil packs. All checked out fine. I found that during my inspection, I did not notice the passenger rear wheel liner was missing. Not that big a deal. But the oil leak still remains. Just kind of weeping between the two rear most spark plugs, not from their seals. Not a gusher, just weeping.

On to the driver side. Again all coil packs checked out ok. Changed the tubes and the plugs. As to the old plugs, the PO told me a "friend" had changed the plugs out and supplied me with boxes of old plugs in a ziplock. The 6 plugs in the ziplock just looked old. So when I went to remove the plugs from the engine, I found three really old plugs on the passenger side heavily covered in carbon, and three new plugs on the driver side. WTF? Ok, moving on.

What are the codes on the durametric? Well, still waiting on the cable and software. Limping through with an icarsoft POR II. The only codes this thing throws is a low battery DTC when I have the battery disconnected an reconnect it. And since this thing only idles for about 30 seconds before dying, the software keeps needing to be reconnected with each power cycle to get some live date, resulting in no data being logged at all.

I also found one ignition coil wire had been disconnected and was hanging free. Reconnecting it helped smooth out the idle a bit, but not much (I love the Case tractor comparison). I also ohmed out the crankshaft position sensor, and it checked out fine (God I do not want to have to get to that screw attaching it to the engine!). So the car will start every time, but it will not idle above 300 rpm (I guess the first tick on the tach), and it will die after a short time idling. Giving it any gas pedal will cause a little bit of rev (very little) and then stalling and dying.

So my next area to investigate is fuel. When the car runs, I do not smell fuel, just exhaust. So I will start looking at the fuel pump and fuel filter. Got to get the front off the ground tonight so I can get fully under the vehicle to replace the fuel filter. I will jumper the relay and listen for the fuel pump, and if necessary again visit my favorite auto part store or Harbor Freight for a fuel pressure gauge. But that will entail me getting a new end cap for the fuel rail which will force me to go the Porsche dealer only to be told by the parts guy that I am not a Certified Porsche Technician and that all my efforts are in vain!

So I hope I am on the right track. Please don't get me wrong, I can afford to have the Porsche repaired by a dealer or a shop, but I like working on cars. I take my time and am pretty patient about it. It's a hobby. I'm not trying to do it for a living or to flip cars or anything else. It was a chance to own a Porsche (something I wanted) and a chance to learn everything about these vehicles. Thanks for reading!
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Old 03-02-2016, 07:46 AM   #13
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still think that you have a bunch of vacuum leaks in addition to all other little things
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Old 03-02-2016, 07:57 AM   #14
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Checking for vacuums list is also on the list of things to do. I tried opening the oil cap when the car was idling, and it caused no change in performance. I have also tried spraying the vacuum system with carb cleaner to find a leak. The problem is keeping the car running long enough to do it. Other than that, I have visual inspection of each component to do.
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Old 03-02-2016, 10:49 AM   #15
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Well, here's a small update, a chance for me to vent, and maybe some humor.

So the car will start every time, but it will not idle above 300 rpm (I guess the first tick on the tach), and it will die after a short time idling. Giving it any gas pedal will cause a little bit of rev (very little) and then stalling and dying.
Tada,

The symptoms you are describing reminds me of one time after re-installing the throttle body I was not able to maintain idle, and after a lot of head scratching I noticed that one of the small pins inside the connector that goes to the throttle body was bent...

After getting the single pin straight again, the engine ran smooth ever again .. :-)

It may not be your cause but simple enough to check, good luck!
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Old 03-02-2016, 11:09 AM   #16
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Probably good idea to replace the fuel filter anyway but it does seem like the engine is starved of fuel or badly out of timing.

Check the Fuel Pressure rail, and borrow a fuel pressure guage from Autozone. I did the same thing and found out that they rent tools at zero cost.

If the pressure is good then you have most likely eliminated the fuel pump from the equation.
I also did a flow test that confirmed the volume of fuel delivered was in spec as well, eliminating blockages, plugged filter, pinched lines, dying fuel pump etc.

The Durametric will confirm all sensors are OK, no shorts or open circuits and values are in range.

The other part of the starved engine formula is combustion mixture which is of course controlled by computer and sensors. Most suspect is always the MAF and not just that it needs to be cleaned but to verify the wiring is not faulted. Again Durametric will help with that.

Keep posting findings and we will keep sending suggestions, but the Durametric is key to looking in the right areas.
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Last edited by jb92563; 03-02-2016 at 11:11 AM.
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Old 03-04-2016, 12:11 PM   #17
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Replaced fuel filter (the engineers were so nice to put it in a convenient location). Jumpered the fuel pump relay and heard power going to the fuel pump. Still no good idle or rev. So, got a fuel pressure tester. Gauge is reading 35 psi (2.4 bar) with the engine not running. Currently doing a leak down test and its holding steady at 35 psi. Bad fuel pump?

After 10 minutes, leaked down to 32 psi. Releasing gas cap did not change readings.

Last edited by tada; 03-04-2016 at 12:37 PM.
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Old 03-04-2016, 09:44 PM   #18
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According to my Bentleys shop manual, the fuel pressure should be:
3.8 bar (+/- 0.2 bar) engine off.
3.3 bar (+/- .02 bar) engine idling.
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Old 03-06-2016, 07:48 AM   #19
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Replaced fuel filter (the engineers were so nice to put it in a convenient location). Jumpered the fuel pump relay and heard power going to the fuel pump. Still no good idle or rev. So, got a fuel pressure tester. Gauge is reading 35 psi (2.4 bar) with the engine not running. Currently doing a leak down test and its holding steady at 35 psi. Bad fuel pump?

After 10 minutes, leaked down to 32 psi. Releasing gas cap did not change readings.
Did you see Gilles comment about a bent pin?
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Old 03-06-2016, 03:26 PM   #20
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Did you see Gilles comment about a bent pin?
Checked the connection to the idle air mixture valve attached to the throttle body. All was ok.

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