Should I buy this car? (Warning, air-cooled 911 content)

[Perfectlap]

Originally Posted by evan9eleven

Interesting perspective. The funny thing is that the market for these cars is just starting to heat up here, behind the rest of the world. But cars are so breathtakingly expensive here anyway no matter what you buy.

Okay lay it on us. What's a decent SC going for over there?

They seem to be creeping past ~$25K lately. These were $15K cars not long ago.
Here's one with a couple of bids at $22K and some engine work.

Porsche 911 SC | eBay

[evan9eleven]

Originally Posted by Perfectlap

Okay lay it on us. What's a decent SC going for over there?

They seem to be creeping past ~$25K lately. These were $15K cars not long ago.
Here's one with a couple of bids at $22K and some engine work.

Porsche 911 SC | eBay

Well, for starters the exchange rate NOK-USD really makes any comparison way out of balance. Also, new and imported used cars are heavily taxed, so anything in the used market will pass those costs on to future buyers.

An SC like the one you linked to on ebay might be in the neighborhood of $50K, while a project car could be as cheap as $15K. The blue SC is about in the middle of those two, which with all the work and new motor make it pretty fair, actually.

I looked at an '86 3.2 recently that ran but was rusty and not original, not even Fuchs. $26K for a total project car. 964s and 993s are wicked expensive, with the 993s going for $90K and up... way up. Its not just demand, the new car taxes I mentioned getting passed on make up a good chunk as well. Cars older then 30 years get a break, so you can do well importing these now if you find a good one... this will naturally lead to more Carreras showing up here in the next few years. That said, I still like this SC.

And finally, I looked for a Boxster S just for your entertainment. A clean 2004 with about 45' miles is selling for... hold your breath... 62 grand! Don't get me started...

[rfuerst911sc]

Hmmmm last night I posted a reply with two pictures and now the post/pics are gone did I offend the 986 gods ?

[evan9eleven]

Originally Posted by rfuerst911sc

Hmmmm last night I posted a reply with two pictures and now the post/pics are gone did I offend the 986 gods ?

Read the forum in linear mode and you'll see all the posts. This forum has a strange setup that isn't like any BBS I'm on otherwise and its cumbersome.

I saw your pics and responded, nice car and it must go pretty well!

[Perfectlap]

Originally Posted by evan9eleven

I looked at an '86 3.2 recently that ran but was rusty and not original, not even Fuchs. $26K for a total project car. 965s and 993s are wicked expensive, with the 993s going for $90K and up... way up. Its not just demand, the new car taxes I mentioned getting passed on make up a good chunk as well. Cars older then 30 years get a break, so you can do well importing these now if you find a good one... this will naturally lead to more Carreras showing up here in the next few years. That said, I still like this SC.

And finally, I looked for a Boxster S just for your entertainment. A clean 2004 with about 45' miles is selling for... hold your breath... 62 grand! Don't get me started...

$62K for a Boxster and $90+K for a 993? Now that's interesting because in the case of the Boxster the U.S. market is up to its eyeballs in all the water-cooled Porsches, so not just 986's. Whereas as few as ~2,500 993's were sold in the U.S. in its final year. Yet despite this inventory chasm between the air and water-cooled models, your market's premium for the Boxster still puts it within 30% of the far rarer 993? Amazing.
It sounds like this makes an air-cooled car an ironic bargain of sorts. But it seems to me that despite having to shell out more for a more popular 911, like the 964 or 993, the less punitive taxing on old cars better protects you from price fluctuations over a less popular 911. In other words, more of your money is going towards the actual market demand for that 911 and less towards taxes, the currency aspect and the 911 market lifting all the 911 boats -- not a very firm price support. The less popular the 911 model is, the more non-car related issues move the price of that car up or down.

[evan9eleven]

Originally Posted by Perfectlap

Yet despite this inventory chasm between the air and water-cooled models, your market's premium for the Boxster still puts it within 30% of the far rarer 993? Amazing.

Here is where the taxes come in to play. The high prices of 993s (which can easily go well over $100K and up too) are both because of demand and because depreciation hasn't had as many years to take the bite out of the new car taxes. Inventory matters, of course, but Norway is also a small country.

The box on the other hand is a much newer car so again less depreciation. My example price was a 2004 S, and that means its original purchase price also included a boatload of extra tax because of the higher horsepower and larger displacement. A slightly older base model would be in the 30-40 grand range with high mileage cars being a fair bit cheaper. Also, the newer the car, the higher the taxes were on it when first sold... These get raised every year.

You wouldn't believe what is costs to buy a decent new car here. Example: new VW Passat wagon. Diesel. Comfortable, safe, relieable transpo for many years and so boring I get depressed just thinking about it. Prepare to spend $100K on that too. My Passat I bought new is 2005 cost me 70 large then. New Boxster base you say? about $160k. My next DD will likely be a Tesla... 460hp for about the same price as the VW because there is no car tax on electric cars here yet. And I can charge it for free just down the road and get everywhere I need to go with free chargers along the way while justfying a couple gas guzzling P-cars. But I digress.

It sounds like this makes an air-cooled car an ironic bargain of sorts. But it seems to me that despite having to shell out more for a more popular 911, like the 964 or 993, the less punitive taxing on old cars better protects you from price fluctuations over a less popular 911. In other words, more of your money is going towards the actual market demand for that 911 and less towards taxes, the currency aspect and the 911 market lifting all the 911 boats -- not a very firm price support. The less popular the 911 model is, the more non-car related issues move the price of that car up or down.

Well said.

[Perfectlap]

Originally Posted by evan9eleven

You wouldn't believe what is costs to buy a decent new car here. Example: new VW Passat wagon. Diesel. Comfortable, safe, relieable transpo for many years and so boring I get depressed just thinking about it. Prepare to spend $100K on that too. My Passat I bought new is 2005 cost me 70 large then. New Boxster base you say? about $160k. My next DD will likely be a Tesla... 460hp for about the same price as the VW because there is no car tax on electric cars here yet. And I can charge it for free just down the road and get everywhere I need to go with free chargers along the way while justfying a couple gas guzzling P-cars. But I digress.

That is crazy. So what's the average income for a college graduate working for say at least 10 years? Do they go into debt for the next 20 years to pay off that $100K Passat wagon?

[evan9eleven]

Originally Posted by Perfectlap

That is crazy. So what's the average income for a college graduate working for say at least 10 years? Do they go into debt for the next 20 years to pay off that $100K Passat wagon?

College degree and ten years experience I guess that person could be doing pretty well... just guessing but anything from $75k to substantially over six figures depending on what they do and if they live in a big city or do something related to the oil industry. Not that it matters 'cause everything here is expensive. A good craft beer will be at least $15 a pint and up in a bar, again taxes at work. Something has to pay for my "free" health care and standard of living, free education, etc. We have the highest quality of life anywhere in the world. And I know the difference, I'm from New York and lived in several states including Cali before moving over here.

Back to cars. The loaded Passat Alltrack is maybe not fair or representative. There are plenty of comparitively reasonable used cars and even some new ones, but they are still expensive. One of my employees bought a brand new Kia, that ran him $50K. But again... the exchange rate is not in favor of the dollar so it sounds worse then it is. At year 2000 exchange rates that car would have been $35K all things being equal, so you see why, at the start of this post, I didn't want to skew the discussion by bringing price into the equation. Cheers!

[coreseller]

Originally Posted by evan9eleven

A good craft beer will be at least $15 a pint and up in a bar

Now THAT, is just not right.......

[RaisedOnPorsches]

Originally Posted by evan9eleven

Something has to pay for my "free" health care and standard of living, free education, etc. We have the highest quality of life anywhere in the world. And I know the difference, I'm from New York and lived in several states including Cali before moving over here.

I have to say after watching a couple seasons of Lilyhammer on Netflix, the thought of moving to Norway has crossed my mind a couple times. Then the weather here in Cali goes back to 65 degrees C in February, and I remember I don't like the cold.