Sat in the 991 at Detroit Auto Show...

[blue2000s]

If you haven't read it, you should read Automobile's review of the car by Jason Commisa. I think it was the most honest perspective of all that I've read.

[thstone]

Perfectlap wrote "grandpa ride/Rohrl time sheet essence of these now longer than a Corvette (just put the engine the middle already) Carreras are making an undeniable turn in the direction of more Aston Martin less Steve McQueen"

+1

[ekam]

Originally Posted by blue2000s

If you haven't read it, you should read Automobile's review of the car by Jason Commisa. I think it was the most honest perspective of all that I've read.

German Icons 2012 Porsche 911 Carrera S - Automobile Magazine

I think this sums up what I wanted to say all along...


http://autos.sympatico.ca/premium-reviews/10255/2012-porsche-911-carrera-middle-age-spread

Yet another less than impressed review.

[coreseller]

Originally Posted by ekam

German Icons 2012 Porsche 911 Carrera S - Automobile Magazine

I think this sums up what I wanted to say all along...


2012 Porsche 911 Carrera: Middle age spread - Sympatico.ca Autos

Yet another less than impressed review.

Honestly, I would of completely rolled my eyes at the first article awhile back. Now that I've spent a bit of time driving an air cooled Pcar, I get the difference. They are very different animals, the older vs. newer. As to which is better, depends on the person.

Strangely enough, this article ties in well with the prior post regarding Porsche's CEO describing their future target market.

[thstone]

What both articles are really saying is that the 991 is the 911 that BMW would have built. Fast and luxurious but not quite a 911 in the historical sense of a 911.

[ekam]

Originally Posted by coreseller

Honestly, I would of completely rolled my eyes at the first article awhile back. Now that I've spent a bit of time driving an air cooled Pcar, I get the difference. They are very different animals, the older vs. newer. As to which is better, depends on the person.

Strangely enough, this article ties in well with the prior post regarding Porsche's CEO describing their future target market.

But don't forget this is not just Porsche but the whole car industry is moving in that direction. Many completely removing manual transmission option, and continue to grow in size and weight with more useless electronic gizmos.

There's no lightweight sports car out there anymore save Lotus Elise which is getting discontinued, and Mazda Miata.

Perhaps we should just look forward to the 2700lbs, 200hp Scion FRZ / Subaru BRZ.

[blue2000s]

Originally Posted by coreseller

Honestly, I would of completely rolled my eyes at the first article awhile back. Now that I've spent a bit of time driving an air cooled Pcar, I get the difference. They are very different animals, the older vs. newer. As to which is better, depends on the person.

Strangely enough, this article ties in well with the prior post regarding Porsche's CEO describing their future target market.

Excellent, a convert to the church of the true sports car!

The question isn't which is better, old or new, it's a story of the loss of a sports car manufacturer. Porsche only builds GTs and trucks now.

[ekam]

Here's 991 GT3 spy shots...

Porsche 911 GT3 spies | News | Auto Express

[Ghostrider 310]

Originally Posted by blue2000s

Excellent, a convert to the church of the true sports car!

The question isn't which is better, old or new, it's a story of the loss of a sports car manufacturer. Porsche only builds GTs and trucks now.

Porsche is suffering Sedanification its like Californication only worse! It's as if they have set out to make the "paraplegic access only" rear 911 seats actually become ...seats! As for water versus air cooled, I can't see an old air cooled unit liking modern traffic jams in August too long without overheating. The sound however from an air cooled unit is far better than the muted whimpy tone Porsche uses to make TUV happy.

[coreseller]

Originally Posted by blue2000s

Excellent, a convert to the church of the true sports car!

The question isn't which is better, old or new, it's a story of the loss of a sports car manufacturer. Porsche only builds GTs and trucks now.

A convert yes, but there are many aspects of the newer Pcars I'll admit that are missed. No I won't be switching back since the 993 has me smitten but, I really can't see where Porsche has an option to go in any other direction than they are.

The only thing that does get me is the size difference, which is literally the case with most cars I can think of (my kid's Corolla is bigger than the Accord my wife had 15 years back). Two of my neighbors have red Miatas, one of the initial generation and the other is the newest with the retractable metal roof, they are quite different in size, weight and how they handle, my choice of those two would be easy also. Almost every model (Pcar, BMW, MB, Japanese, Domestic) I can think of that's been around for decades has bloated.

I'll never forget the test drive I took in the 993 with the prior owner, I couldn't get over the fact that we were rubbing elbows sitting in it, the 986 had much more width in the front seat. Getting it home and parking it right next to the 986 was an eye opener also.

If Porsche didn't evolve and utilize today's technology, imagine how they would get lambasted by the press then. Think of their target market and the vehicles that would be cross shopped and how they are equipped, what choice do they have if they want to draw sales and compete?

[Perfectlap]

Building grandpa ride cars is fine, they should just call them something else other than Carreras. This is like Tony Stewart thanking his crew for making his Camry awesome to drive in a NASCAR race. But in reverse. Porsche is using a car's racing heritage to sell something cushy and automated -- when those two things weren't what made it cool in the first place. Keep the Carrera and Boxsters as they are and simply come up with a new name for a coupe that a doctor, Chinese billionaire, rapper or Hollywood actor would want to drive.
They're trying to have it both ways and in the end they will be making Porsche nothing different from Audi, Merc, Jaguar and BMW. Cars with more and more power and more and more driver assists to keep said doctors and billionaires out of the Armco.

[Ghostrider 310]

Porsche has cheapened their mark, first by manufacturing trucks, then by allowing VW to get at the master panel and finally by moving away from the sports car legend. Now it's Ferrari and Lambo that make only sports cars and frankly don't seem to care if you're too tall or fat to fit. I hope we don't see the day when Ferrari makes a 50k POS and adorns it with the prancing horse the old man lifted from a fighter pilot insignia.

[ekam]

There's no manual transmission in new Ferraris and Lambos anymore.

[Ghostrider 310]

Originally Posted by ekam

There's no manual transmission in new Ferraris and Lambos anymore.

I heard it can be special ordered, its been a long time coming anyway. If I let you drive my Fiat and you experienced a directly cabled clutch you would wish they never invented a hydraulic unit.

[blue2000s]

Originally Posted by coreseller

A convert yes, but there are many aspects of the newer Pcars I'll admit that are missed. No I won't be switching back since the 993 has me smitten but, I really can't see where Porsche has an option to go in any other direction than they are.

The only thing that does get me is the size difference, which is literally the case with most cars I can think of (my kid's Corolla is bigger than the Accord my wife had 15 years back). Two of my neighbors have red Miatas, one of the initial generation and the other is the newest with the retractable metal roof, they are quite different in size, weight and how they handle, my choice of those two would be easy also. Almost every model (Pcar, BMW, MB, Japanese, Domestic) I can think of that's been around for decades has bloated.

I'll never forget the test drive I took in the 993 with the prior owner, I couldn't get over the fact that we were rubbing elbows sitting in it, the 986 had much more width in the front seat. Getting it home and parking it right next to the 986 was an eye opener also.

If Porsche didn't evolve and utilize today's technology, imagine how they would get lambasted by the press then. Think of their target market and the vehicles that would be cross shopped and how they are equipped, what choice do they have if they want to draw sales and compete?

Now try driving a late 70s 911 SC and you'll totally understand what a Porsche sports car can feel like.

There used to be a major difference between a sports car and a sedan. You made sacrifices to get what you wanted. Now you can use one as the other and the only real difference is the number of doors. Major, important things have been lost in the process.

[Ghostrider 310]

You check out driving a car with manual steering, no hydraulic clutch, weighs 2100 pounds, has ZERO emissions nonsense and no 5 mph bumpers. The thing is 40 years old and it's still a hoot, they have gone too far just like you said.

[ekam]

Originally Posted by Ghostrider 310

I heard it can be special ordered, its been a long time coming anyway. If I let you drive my Fiat and you experienced a directly cabled clutch you would wish they never invented a hydraulic unit.

No you cannot. Ferrari 430 was the last model available with manual which you had to special order and 6-8 months wait. Both the Ferrari 458 and Lambo Aventador use flappy pedals.

[Ghostrider 310]

Originally Posted by ekam

No you cannot. Ferrari 430 was the last model available with manual which you had to special order and 6-8 months wait. Both the Ferrari 458 and Lambo Aventador use flappy pedals.

That's surprising, I guess keeping both systems available was too expensive. Still, I'm sure if you are say a Saudi Prince you can get a gearbox, just bring gold bars along.

[Perfectlap]

Originally Posted by ekam

No you cannot. Ferrari 430 was the last model available with manual which you had to special order and 6-8 months wait. Both the Ferrari 458 and Lambo Aventador use flappy pedals.

I had to to Google this. I thought the 360 was the last with the old school option.

[ekam]

Originally Posted by Perfectlap

I had to to Google this. I thought the 360 was the last with the old school option.

430 comes in manual but it's very rare... I did take a photo of one I'll just have to dig it up.

EDIT: Oh wait that pic is a 430...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferrari_F430