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Old 02-25-2010, 03:15 AM   #1
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What are peoples' opinion on preventative maintenance?

And what I mean here are items that potentially can leave you stranded if they fail, like an AOS, water pump, alternator, and idlers/pulleys. Not long ago, I had my water pump crap out on me, which almost left me stranded (luckily, I had enough time to drive it to the dealer). I actually had thought about replacing the water pump at 60k miles as a preventative, but it died on me at 59k. Lol. I guess my point is do you replace these things even when they're not broke, knowing that they probably will break at certain mileage, or do you chance it and keep driving and hoping it will not happen?

Reason I ask is because I'm thinking about replacing my AOS and all my idlers/pulleys this Spring, but it's not as if Porsche recommends replacement of these items at any set mileage or age interval. However, I just hate getting stranded, and failures of any of these items means I'll get stranded. I even change out my battery every 4 yrs as a preventative. Lol. So, what are your thoughts? Leave well enough alone or change em out?

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Old 02-25-2010, 04:11 AM   #2
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I am a strong believer in preventative maintanance to a certain point. Wear items need to be replaced. It is my opinion that parts usually do not fail without warning IF you know what to look for. That being said I don't know that I would replace a water pump if it was not giving signs of failure. Belts, sure, bushings, yes, coil packs and plugs, certainly. Combining jobs to ease installation "while you are in there" makes sense from an economic sense as well to reduce labor in some cases. Like an IMS when you do the clutch.

When I off road I usually have several hundred pounds of spare parts with me, hell I even bring parts along for trucks I don't even own but this is a different situation. If you break down way way off in the booneys then it can cost you thousands to get your truck out of there and back to the pavement. So in this case it makes economic sense to carry lots of tools and parts that reduce economy and fill up a lot of space.

Of course this is different than driving a car that does not even have a real spare tire. With Porsche I carry no spares and only a minimal tool kit consisting of a few screwdrivers, spare light bulbs, fuses, a socket set and a crescent wrench. It weighs maybe three pounds. The most important tool you can carry in a Porsche is a cell phone.

The other thing I do even in the Porsche after years of driving British cars is play my favorite game of "guess that noise". I am always listening to the sounds the car in operation. If you know what to listen for and can discern whether it is consistant with speed, revs or increases with turning left or right then you can do a pretty good job of finding out what "the next thing to go" is and head it off at the pass.
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Old 02-25-2010, 04:50 AM   #3
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I generally replace items before there is evidence of impending doom. Like batteries. On the issue of the other things, like water pumps etc. the suggestion above makes total sense. Combining.

I don't see a perfect solution but it seems to me that if you are "going in there" you might as well attend to the usual suspects.

Good luck.
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Old 02-25-2010, 05:32 AM   #4
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Fixing something before it breaks is key...

Imagine if the FAA didn't require specialized PMs on aircraft and people treated them like their Porsches... I'd say we'd be losing planes on a daily basis.

It never ceases to amaze me how much people neglect these later Porsches, I never saw that with the aircooled cars.

We are doing an IMS Retrofit downstairs right now.. Two days ago when the owner dropped the car off and waited to see the "before" dyno evaluations I heard some horrible sounding chain tensioners and lifters when I fired the engine up. That prompted me to ask him how often he serviced the car, he said every 15K miles...

Those extended oil service intervals will cost him 7,000.00 in worn parts and labor, the bill is due tomorrow.
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Old 02-25-2010, 05:41 AM   #5
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IMHO...

Proactive owners with dirt under their fingernails do not service their cars every X number of miles. They never stop servicing their vehicles.
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Old 02-25-2010, 06:10 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxtaboy
And what I mean here are items that potentially can leave you stranded if they fail, like an AOS, water pump, alternator, and idlers/pulleys. Not long ago, I had my water pump crap out on me, which almost left me stranded (luckily, I had enough time to drive it to the dealer). I actually had thought about replacing the water pump at 60k miles as a preventative, but it died on me at 59k. Lol. I guess my point is do you replace these things even when they're not broke, knowing that they probably will break at certain mileage, or do you chance it and keep driving and hoping it will not happen?

Reason I ask is because I'm thinking about replacing my AOS and all my idlers/pulleys this Spring, but it's not as if Porsche recommends replacement of these items at any set mileage or age interval. However, I just hate getting stranded, and failures of any of these items means I'll get stranded. I even change out my battery every 4 yrs as a preventative. Lol. So, what are your thoughts? Leave well enough alone or change em out?
There are some obvious cases that make sound economic sense for doing “preventative maintenance” on these cars, usually due to the design layout and component interactions and work flow (doing the IMS, RMS and clutch all at one time is an example). For example, if you have a base car and are thinking about going to the larger “S” oil cooler, it would be a good time to do any cooling system items (thermostat, water pump, etc.) because you are going to be opening up and draining the cooling system anyway, so why do it twice. To do the oil cooler, you need to remove the tube from the air box to throttle body, so why not change the air filter while you are in there. Something like the serpentine belt that can both stop you dead on the side of the road, as well as damage your engine, should be changed as part of normal service rather than waiting until it needs it as many auto part outlets do not stock these belts, even though they are a $20 item. We check the tensioners and idlers whenever we change out a belt; and check the water pump and alternator for bearing noise or play as well, but we do not change them unless they need it.

As for the AOS, we watch the earlier cars closely as then tend to have more issue than the ones with the redesigned units. That said, if you are in the engine bay for something else, you might want to consider changing it if it is an early unit or shows the slightest signs of going south.
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Old 02-25-2010, 06:15 AM   #7
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And it is not even the interval Porsche now recommends for M96 engines

Sometime in 2007, they issued a recommended service interval chart that now recommends 12k oil changes.

I wonder how many of us knew that? I didn't until yesterday.
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Old 02-25-2010, 06:22 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikefocke
Sometime in 2007, they issued a recommended service interval chart that now recommends 12k oil changes.

I wonder how many of us knew that? I didn't until yesterday.
I did, because I posted that link on PPBB.

It is kinda interesting that they originally suggested 15k intervals between oil changes on the early models, and then later retroactively recommended that interval go down to 12k (they did the same kind of back peddling on other items for the car too, if you look at the chart). Same car, but all of a sudden, they tell you it needs more servicing than they originally thought.
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Old 02-25-2010, 06:27 AM   #9
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It is not just Porsche doing this. Many other makes are reducing their service intervals as well.
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Old 02-25-2010, 06:42 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by landrovered
It is not just Porsche doing this. Many other makes are reducing their service intervals as well.
Because the people buying the cars are too damn lazy to service them... The manufacturers are now in a battle to brag about service intervals and who can go the longest, all while they are using crappy parts to comprise their engines..

The more it appears to cost to maintain these cars the fewer people will buy them... Since no one cares about the 2nd, 3rd or 4th owner it all comes out in the wash later..
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Old 02-25-2010, 06:46 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by landrovered
It is not just Porsche doing this. Many other makes are reducing their service intervals as well.
I can understand them reducing service intervals as they introduce new cars, but retroactively recommend shorter intervals on their older cars? I wonder what prompted them to do that? My car hasn't changed since 2001...why is it that at first my owner's manual said I could wait till 15k before I change my oil, but now, I should do it at 12k intervals? Or fuel filter and plugs changed they say I should change at 60k miles, but now they say it should be done at 48k intervals.
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Old 02-25-2010, 06:49 AM   #12
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The manufacturers don't want to talk about "cost of ownership" because the high end cars would suck wind just on depreciation alone. When they are forced to talk about it they come up with free service plans and warranties and then try to change the subject to things like "quality and value".

The Pacific rim manufacturers raised the warranty anti to crazy levels and the other companies had to match them, why do you think the fight warranty claims tooth and nail.
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Old 02-25-2010, 06:50 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxtaboy
I can understand them reducing service intervals as they introduce new cars, but retroactively recommend shorter intervals on their older cars? I wonder what prompted them to do that? My car hasn't changed since 2001...why is it that at first my owner's manual said I could wait till 15k before I change my oil, but now, I should do it at 12k intervals? Or fuel filter and plugs changed they say I should change at 60k miles, but now they say it should be done at 48k intervals.
Corporate speak for "we were wrong".
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Old 02-25-2010, 07:01 AM   #14
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i replace the fluids, belt, pads and any other normal wear items regularly. Things like a water pump, alternator, etc i won't touch until they fail. Sometimes they can last the life of the car and sometimes not.

Normally 2x a year i will remove all tires and inspect the car. Usually in the spring and then in the fall.

The one thing that i have done as preventive maint was the aos. It is still in the box but i'll be changing it. I have seen the stories and it wasn't that much so i'll change it.
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Old 02-25-2010, 07:08 AM   #15
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Changing oil at 12,000 mile intervals is over twice as long as any of the knowledgeable folks on this board would recommend.

I find all of this very interesting since I plan maintenance every spring and fall on my '02 S. My car now shows just about 17k miles, but I'm already thinking what could be replaced due to age, not wear. I've also updated the car with the LN products that I could easily install and am highly considering the IMS update, though my clutch is just fine. My friend is a wizz mechanic (Porsche owner) and this is something he may attempt to do to my car in our free time. His 996 had RMS issues, but that was replaced with a 997 CS...all his other P-Cars are air-cooled.
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Old 02-25-2010, 07:18 AM   #16
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I just replace the parts listed on the regular interval list ahead of time or on time. Nothing else unless it's making a sound or is broken. IMO the car isn't worth much anymore and dumping parts into it(when they still could be functioning properly) is not worth it.
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Old 02-25-2010, 07:21 AM   #17
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I have had water pumps last 100k miles and some last 20k miles. How do you know you are not taking out the 100k and putting in the 20k one?
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Old 02-25-2010, 10:32 AM   #18
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"Fixing something before it breaks is key...

Imagine if the FAA didn't require specialized PMs on aircraft and people treated them like their Porsches... I'd say we'd be losing planes on a daily basis.

It never ceases to amaze me how much people neglect these later Porsches, I never saw that with the aircooled cars."

C'mon really...comparing a PM on a car to a PM on a jet carrying hunderds of people, a jet that is subjected to extreme weather conditions and metal fatigue, a jet that is in almost constant use. Are you joking?

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Old 02-25-2010, 10:42 AM   #19
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Pboxstercar,

A word of advice... I get that you are pissed off at Jake. I too have been offended in the past by his inflexibility and over the top declarations such as the one that offended you. BUT, using the fact that he makes a living by working on Porsche is a moot point and poor arguement. It is a well known fact what he does for a living and he is a sponsor of this website.

If you find fault with his logic then produce data that supports your point. Simply tagging any post of his with a snide comment makes you look bad.

My advice is free, take it for what it is worth.
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Old 02-25-2010, 10:47 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by landrovered
Pboxstercar,

A word of advice... I get that you are pissed off at Jake. I too have been offended in the past by his inflexibility and over the top declarations such as the one that offended you. BUT, using the fact that he makes a living by working on Porsche is a moot point and poor arguement. It is a well known fact what he does for a living and he is a sponsor of this website.

If you find fault with his logic then produce data that supports your point. Simply tagging any post of his with a snide comment makes you look bad.

My advice is free, take it for what it is worth.
Well said.

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