result of PPI FOR BUYING 1997 WITH 30K MILES PART 2 please help!

[Gougoushu]

Originally Posted by Lil bastard

... Private sales always are priced higher than they should be (people ALWAYS think their car is worth more than it actually is.

lil bastard is right that people overvalue their cars. But that doesn't mean the seller will be willing to part with his car for a true market price. Just because a seller "should" move, as Mike Yi is suggesting, doesn't mean he WILL.

A search for "Boxster" cars on ebay illustrates this truth better than our discussion could. If you look at "completed listings" for Boxsters on ebay, you will see that about 95% of the cars listed have failed to sell because buyers were not willing to pay the minimum [called the "reserve" price] that sellers want. Almost all completed sales [about 5% of all listings] are no-reserve listings [i.e. a desperate seller].

Ebay gives the best picture of the national market, because it shows actual sales: where willingness to sell intersects with willingness to buy. I reckon that the presence of ebay fees, car transport costs, and the buyer's inability to inspect the car [all tending to lower the price] are balanced by the presence of a large base of potential customers [tending to raise the price].

If you look at these completed listings [which requires that you register on ebay], you will have a really good idea of the actual market, and whether you would be able to unload the car if necessary in the near future.

[Lil bastard]

My final word on this is that you have to sit down, take a breath and realize that this is a luxury buy. You do not absolutely need it, nor do you need it TODAY!

Look at other '97's, with higher mileage. Take the difference in price and divide that by the difference in miles - that'll be how much you're paying for the 'unused' miles.

While it's true people over-value their cars, it's the best negotiator who wins in the end. Think about how long it took you to earn this money (or how hard you'll have to work to pay the loan) and negotiate from that basis. You have something the seller wants - money. The seller has something you want, but he's not the only source of satisfying your desire. The buyer has the edge. Sure the seller can refuse, so what? You just have to find another one and as far as the Boxster is concerned, there's no shortage of them.

In the end, you have to do what you think is best. No one here can tell you what to do. It's good you're seeking advice, but in the end, you have to intepret this advice and act as you see fit. Good luck!

[ART07154]

Originally Posted by Lil bastard

My final word on this is that you have to sit down, take a breath and realize that this is a luxury buy. You do not absolutely need it, nor do you need it TODAY!

Look at other '97's, with higher mileage. Take the difference in price and divide that by the difference in miles - that'll be how much you're paying for the 'unused' miles.

While it's true people over-value their cars, it's the best negotiator who wins in the end. Think about how long it took you to earn this money (or how hard you'll have to work to pay the loan) and negotiate from that basis. You have something the seller wants - money. The seller has something you want, but he's not the only source of satisfying your desire. The buyer has the edge. Sure the seller can refuse, so what? You just have to find another one and as far as the Boxster is concerned, there's no shortage of them.

In the end, you have to do what you think is best. No one here can tell you what to do. It's good you're seeking advice, but in the end, you have to intepret this advice and act as you see fit. Good luck!

Thank you for your advice.I am still searching I have until Monday to pay the seller(I am already spend $185 on PPI)It's been about 2 monthes of searching for me so far I 've not meet Boxster's owner with low miles willing to sell their car close to $10k range.I did carfax,PPI,seeking advice from Boxster board.This will be my weekend vehicle I hope I will find private owner willing to sell his car for KBB or edmunds guidline but If it has a low miles and taking good care they will want more money.

[Aron in Toronto]

As others have said you can always offer a lower price and and if the seller refuses, you can always walk, then come back a week later and raise your offer or meet him at his price, assuming no one else picks it up. He might even be the one picking up up the phone to call you.

I bought a pre-owned daily driver last week and in my case I was undecided between buying new or slightly used. This worked to my advantage, as the seller needed a buyer more than I needed to buy his car. I was firm on my offer and he kept calling me back, dropping his price each time until he was at my original offer. In the end I bought the car at 50% of what he paid for it new 2 years ago.

On the other hand (there's always another hand), it's a lot of car for $10.1k. I happen to have a '97 w/ ~35k mi and I'd have to be in pretty bad shape to let it go for that price.

I'd give him a week and see if he softens up on his price, if not I'd probably go ahead and buy it assuming it is the one you really like, and you don't find something better in the meantime.

[gschotland]

Originally Posted by Gougoushu

A search for "Boxster" cars on ebay illustrates this truth better than our discussion could. If you look at "completed listings" for Boxsters on ebay, you will see that about 95% of the cars listed have failed to sell because buyers were not willing to pay the minimum [called the "reserve" price] that sellers want. Almost all completed sales [about 5% of all listings] are no-reserve listings [i.e. a desperate seller].

Ebay gives the best picture of the national market, because it shows actual sales: where willingness to sell intersects with willingness to buy. I reckon that the presence of ebay fees, car transport costs, and the buyer's inability to inspect the car [all tending to lower the price] are balanced by the presence of a large base of potential customers [tending to raise the price].

If you look at these completed listings [which requires that you register on ebay], you will have a really good idea of the actual market, and whether you would be able to unload the car if necessary in the near future.

I agree 100%. But also look at the high bids on the 95% of cars that didn't sell because the reserve wasn't met, assuming the seller started at a low enough start number to actually elicit some bids. To me this is an even better indicator of fair market value than the no or low reserve "distress" sales that did happen. It shows what buyers are really willing to pay.

Follow the results over the course of a week or two compiling them on a spreadsheet (on mine I added my assessment of general condition, options, problems, location, etc.) and you'll see a very clear picture of value to the point that you can probably predict within +/-5% where the top bid will be on a given car. Knowledge is power. Gather your data and use it when negotiating locally.

ART07154, it seems like the prospect of your $185 PPI investment going out the window is enough to compel you to consummate the deal on this seemingly "good" car despite the seller's final offer being clearly overpriced by $1.5-$2k. You're not losing $185 by leaving nearly 10x that much on the table for the seller. Reality check time. Look at this as part of your search cost to find the right one. In the world of Boxster maintenance $185 is chump change.

Fall out of love with this car and keep looking for something as good or better that's more realistically priced. If you look hard and really can't find one (I'd find this hard to believe), go back at the seller in a few week or a month and negotiate aggressively and he will deal unless he wants to hang onto the car till the spring. Not too many Boxster shoppers out there now. His totally unrealistic price means he'll almost definitely still have it. If not, there are so many others.

Time and market conditions are on your side. There are THOUSANDS of these cars around and lots of motivated and/or financially strapped sellers. Be prepared to do a little leg work and don't be afraid to spend some $ to find the right one. Top down weather in VA is now 5 months away, so step back, take a deep breath, relax and take your time.

[ART07154]

After 2 monthes of searching i think my buying Used boxster experience is.
-The seller with low mile good condition garage kept boxster want ot sell thier car more than kbb or Edmunds guideline.
-The on that asking for under book value are high miles,bad carfax or no service history.
I will keep searching

[Aron in Toronto]

I wouldn't give up on this one if it is the color and condition you are happy with.

One big advantage is that it particular car seems to be local to you and you can personally asses the condition with your own eyes. I bought my Boxster over a long distance, sight unseen, with only a PPI report to go on, and although I got lucky and it was in better condition than advertized, I'm not sure I would do it this way again.

When I was recently searching for a "new to me" car only one of the many I looked at lived up to their ad descriptions.

I also just took a look at the completed eBay listings for 97-99 Boxsters, and considering final bid amounts on both listings that ended in a sale and those that didn't (but still had bidders), it seems your seller's price is not totally out of line. A bit high, but not by much.

Edmunds and KBB prices are only a data point, although they can be helpful in negotiating a price, they have always seemed out of touch with Boxster pricing, and don’t give much value for low millage.

Anyway don’t get hung up on this one. Let yourself and the seller cool off a bit, and during this period, if nothing else meets your criteria at a price you feel is fair then go back to the seller and hopefully he will be ready to come down on his price.

[CJ_Boxster]

You guys are forgetting one thing, sure he paid alittle more than most would for his boxster but damn it, everyone here knows that once you take her through some hard curves on a mountain side road, any trouble or costs seem to slip your mind.

In my opinion the boxster should have never dropped past 15k but hey, the economy probably had alot of to with the difference between what you can pay for a boxster and what your willing to pay for a boxster in this economy.

trust me, after afew spirited drives witht he top down, you'll probably think to yourself "I'd of paid 15k for my baby." Enjoy it, keep up the maintaince. Use 9 quarts of 0w-40 Mobile or Royal Purple (my pref.) every oil change between 10k - 15k miles and you'll be set. if you have any technical questions, you know where to ask.

Also, my 2 cents, If you do all that money vs miles stuff, you'll probably take the fun out of owning which ever boxster you end up buying, likely you might start to drive slower and turn at beyond slow speeds cause you'll be worried about wearing down your tires and brakes and you'll constantly end up working out numbers in your head,
"How often should I drive it cause more mileage will ruin my resale value and blah blah blah car becomes a garage queen and is only takin out of the garage for "special occasions" and you end up looking like a jerk among your neighbors who watch you wash her every weekend but never drive it"

Besides, you'll be helping the economy, the seller could buy alot of xmas gifts with that money

[Gougoushu]

Carlos is right about the emotional aspect, and the dangers of counting too much. I studied the market for months, looked a quite a few cars, then [exactly one year ago] wound up bidding on an ebay Boxster in the last minute of the auction because I liked the color! No regrets. Lots of little problems but it has given me a year and 10,000 miles of fun, and a fun new hobby of fixing it. Just look at how attached we are these cars, dressing them up, giving them nicknames, etc. ... explains why so few will sell their little babies for under $10k. And why we are so keen to see if/when you buy one too!

[ART07154]

I just found 99 boxster with 55k miles from a dealer here in Virginia.They asking $13.9 but I talked them down to $11.9 and they will do extended powertrain warranty (engines,transmission and axel)for 2 years/24k miles at thier cost $500.The car has 2remotes keys and brand new tires.I think this a better deal?

[gschotland]

Originally Posted by ART07154

I just found 99 boxster with 55k miles from a dealer here in Virginia.They asking $13.9 but I talked them down to $11.9 and they will do extended powertrain warranty (engines,transmission and axel)for 2 years/24k miles at thier cost $500.The car has 2remotes keys and brand new tires.I think this a better deal?

The dealer probably picked it up for $8k at (kbb.com exc/good trade in value) auction. Not surprising that he'd readily come down $2k and offer a warranty that probably costs him $200 and likely doesn't cover much. Presumably it has no service recs., which isn't necessarily a deal breaker. Does it have any options?

Figuring you'd have to immediately spend ~$0.8-$1k for new tires and an alignment on the '97, the warranty has some value, and it's 2 yrs newer, this seems like a somewhat better deal - assuming it drives well and there are no condition or mechanical issues. Post PPI maybe you can shave some more off depending on what you find.

[ART07154]

Originally Posted by gschotland

The dealer probably picked it up for $8k at (kbb.com exc/good trade in value) auction. Not surprising that he'd readily come down $2k and offer a warranty that probably costs him $200 and likely doesn't cover much. Presumably it has no service recs., which isn't necessarily a deal breaker. Does it have any options?

Figuring you'd have to immediately spend ~$0.8-$1k for new tires and an alignment on the '97, the warranty has some value, and it's 2 yrs newer, this seems like a somewhat better deal - assuming it drives well and there are no condition or mechanical issues. Post PPI maybe you can shave some more off depending on what you find.

My reason is 2 yrs warranty even is just powertrain but at least is cover 100%engine and tranmission with $0 deductible.The vehicle come with 55k miles but it's 2 yr newer with side airbags.I am going back tomorrow to offer $11.5 with warranty.I agree they probably picked it up around 8k but I like that it have brand new 17" Michelin brand new tires,brand new break pads, 2 remotes keys.I will ask them for me to take it for PPIO If they accept my offer.

[brp987]

I totally agree with CJ (good to see you back, btw). Some people like shopping and haggling. I hate that stuff. A guy at work brags about the great deals he gets on things. He does pay low prices, but takes forever to get that deal. If you factor in the wasted time, as far as I'm concerned, it wasn't a great deal. Also, most of us here have probably seen multiple $100k's of net worth evaporate in the recession. Are you gonna sweat a possible couple $k more this way or that? On a $10k car? Buy a freekin' camry. I bought my '01S off ebay. I met the seller. Drove it. Looked it over/under. Negotiated. He paid reg and smog. Done in one weekend. No regrets.

[ART07154]

Originally Posted by brp987

I totally agree with CJ (good to see you back, btw). Some people like shopping and haggling. I hate that stuff. A guy at work brags about the great deals he gets on things. He does pay low prices, but takes forever to get that deal. If you factor in the wasted time, as far as I'm concerned, it wasn't a great deal. Also, most of us here have probably seen multiple $100k's of net worth evaporate in the recession. Are you gonna sweat a possible couple $k more this way or that? On a $10k car? Buy a freekin' camry. I bought my '01S off ebay. I met the seller. Drove it. Looked it over/under. Negotiated. He paid reg and smog. Done in one weekend. No regrets.

I agree with you I am at the end of my searching I have until Monday to pay for the 97 but I will go back to look at the 99 tomorrow.It's between these 2 cars I dont want to spend more than $12k for a fun vehicle and I don't want to spend 4 monthes looking for one.I am ready to join you guys as the owner soon.Btw speaking of Camry my daily driver is Lexus ES330(Suited up Camry

[Mike_Yi]

Is the '99 at a Porsche dealer? If you need to exercise the warranty, where can you have it serviced? Is it a Ford dealer, and they will service it? Ugh. What kind of Michelins does it have on it? Does it have the cheapest Michelins, does it have all-season, or does it have PS2s? Definitely have a PPI from another shop. I'm sure they will allow that. If not, walk, or run, away.

Let the '97 go. If he's giving you a deadline, he's in a hurry to sell it. If you don't call him, I bet he calls you. If so, offer him $9.

You have to expect that on a car you're paying around $10k for, you are going to waste a couple of hundred on PPIs before you find the right one.

[chubert]

Here is my $.02 on the price. I recently overpaid for a 99 base. I paid $15.5K for a 99 with 50K. It had 4 brand new tires and front brakes. The exterior of the car is nearly perfect. Undercarriage looks great with no sign of repair. The interior is FLAWLESS. I am a big fan of looking at the seat bolsters. If they are worn it looks like an old car to me. I can’t get over that. Mine look NEW. Almost no wrinkles or wear Maybe the seats were recovered?? Either way when I look a the car it looks like new in and out. Even the back window is super clear.

I took a chance on the mechanicals since I can do most of that myself .

The cosmetics are what sold me on the car. The mechanicals all seem ok it runs fine, drives good so I won there too.

Bottom line is the $2-$3K I overpaid would not be worth it to ME looking at a worn seat.

Unless you are going to sell it in a year or 2 spend what you have to get the car that has the things YOU want. We all value things differently. $10K,$12K,or $15K are all great prices for a car that really is fantastic.

[ART07154]

Originally Posted by CJ_Boxster

1. No big, you usually want to buy a new matching set when buying a used car.
2. Might as well get it out of the way cause you should get one everytime you get new tires so you dont mess up your new rubber.
3. Most likely a sparkplug tube O-ring, 12 total needed to replace ALL of them on all 6 cyclindar, cost about 3 bucks an O-ring and with some forum searching you could find the repair instructions to do it yourself, novice mechanic takes about 3 hours to complete.
4. No big, your engine will cool better without it, Mine was removed when i did my front engine mount replacement and i didnt replace it and my engine ran alittle cooler for longer.
5. Have the wheels balanced and look at the RIM (not the tire) while it spins and look to see if it wobbles, if so, bent wheel. if not, your old tires can cause vibration.
6. Not a big deal, someone sells them on ebay.

I had 2 places estimate the repair/tune up for 1997 with 30k miles
1.Local porsche dealership $2500 not include tires (sound very high)
2.Local porsche garage between $1500-$1700 not including tires.
and I'll need 4set of tires and alliegment.
I guess welcome to High price of Porsche parts and labor???

[gschotland]

Originally Posted by ART07154

I guess welcome to High price of Porsche parts and labor???

As they say, if you wanna play, you gotta pay.

Get yourself a shop manual for $60, be willing to learn to do at least some of your own maintenance, buy your parts & supplies mail order, use this incredible forum to educate yourself, and this part of your ownership experience will be substantially less financially painful. Plus you'll feel good about doing some work yourself - provided you do it right. If you screw up, there are plenty of gurus here to help you sort the problems out. I'm not one of them, BTW.

Save the truly hard jobs for the independent Porsche specialist shops, avoid Porsche dealers as much as possible, and don't ever let anyone other than a specialist tinker with your car.

[jcb986]

I bought my 2000 Boxster S with 62,000 miles on it for 15,500. It was the exact car I was looking for for over a year. Dark grey metallic, red leather interior with hand painted instrument panel, carbon pack, carbon red leather steering wheel, up graded sound system with cd changer, 18" turbo wheels, 3.2 liter with a TIP with a custom Valentine 1 radar installed. One owner and nearly mint condition. It is up on stands as I am replacing the original rotors with a new set of Balo's plus I am doing a once over and replacing some normal items. Love this car and I like how easy it is to work on. Just wish I had a lift. JB

This car original sticker was for $69,700. So Art, don't be in a hurry, find what you want and be prepared to buy. I paid cash.

[hatch1517]

The dealer will go right threw a car and will even tell you that a hundred and twenty point check has been done (In Australia any how ) but dont be fooled into thinking all is right with the car.Most things are left to point of sale if you dont pick the problems and ask for them to be fixed they have made a profit because the price has those repairs added already.Some times buying an early modle with just a few miles on the clock can be less reliable than one with 15,000ml per year average but proven well maintained. Have someone else check it over for you could save you a lot in the long run. If the interior is red you wanted black but you will live with it for a price. Good luck