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Old 05-25-2008, 10:57 AM   #1
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If changing gear most of the time at 6000 or 7000 rpms, will the clutch wear out quic

Does the clutch wear out quicker if changing gears at high rpms?

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Old 05-25-2008, 02:51 PM   #2
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correct me if i'm wrong, but riding your clutch would wear them out faster.

but why are you shifting at 6K-7K all the time? besides using more gas, i don't see the need unless you're always driving at full tilt but i got to admit it is damn fun to wring out the engine to redline every so often....hehee
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Old 05-25-2008, 03:24 PM   #3
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What do you mean by riding the clutch?

I dont slip the clutch, just change gears at high rpms because this car is just for the track or mountain twisties on Sunday mornings.

In other words , its just a car for fun.
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Old 05-25-2008, 04:30 PM   #4
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Riding the clutch is driving with the clutch pedal partially depressed almost the entire time your driving.
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Old 05-25-2008, 04:52 PM   #5
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I drive mine like that a lot, 69,000 on the clutch so far, no issues yet.
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Old 05-25-2008, 05:00 PM   #6
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No no I dont ride the clutch , just revved to redline all the time.
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Old 05-25-2008, 05:26 PM   #7
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Riding the clutch does two things;
1. If you drive with your foot partially depressed on the clutch pedal, it will engage the throw out bearing on the pressure plate and the throw out bearing will spin with the engine RPM causing premature wear.
2. From the time when the clutch disc touches the fly wheel until it's full engaged and spinning the same RPM's the disc is "slipping". The less time the disc slips the less wear on the disc. (I'm not advocating side stepping the clutch, that's a whole other story)

To answer the original question, if your quick and smooth with your shifts you should be alright. Just a personal thought; There's an old saying that I live by, and being a mechanic all my life I can attest to it;

Double the RPM, triple the wear.

P.S. You like to rev it to the redline? Remember that the computer logs rev limiter and over rev's. My new Durametric scanning tool showed my '04 S was 0/0 on both counters. Good news for reselling and warranty work.
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Old 05-26-2008, 04:26 AM   #8
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If you are afraid of clutch wear there is one simple fix - don't use the clutch. That's right, I said, don't use the clutch. If you shift smoothly and slowly and put it back in gear at the exact rev-matched RPM you don't need a clutch.

Try it at low RPMs sometime. Pop it into neutral with your foot on the gas just a little. Then lot the RPMs drop for the next gear, rest your hand on the shifter and apply gentle pressure. It will drop right in.

Now, I do not recommend doing this as a regular habit. But doing it a few times will give you a better feel for how the drivetrain wants to shift. Then shift like that but with the clutch and you should get very long clutch life.

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Old 05-26-2008, 07:03 AM   #9
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Assuming you are using the clutch correctly, no worries.

Your engine is another matter. Keep redlining that baby and you will get a nice $12K surprise.

Good luck.

PS-Do a search here on blown engines. It may change your driving habits.

Good luck.
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Old 05-26-2008, 07:35 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renzop
If you are afraid of clutch wear there is one simple fix - don't use the clutch. That's right, I said, don't use the clutch. If you shift smoothly and slowly and put it back in gear at the exact rev-matched RPM you don't need a clutch.

Try it at low RPMs sometime. Pop it into neutral with your foot on the gas just a little. Then lot the RPMs drop for the next gear, rest your hand on the shifter and apply gentle pressure. It will drop right in.

Now, I do not recommend doing this as a regular habit. But doing it a few times will give you a better feel for how the drivetrain wants to shift. Then shift like that but with the clutch and you should get very long clutch life.

Regards,
Alan
Anyone doing this should be ready for some expensive tranny repairs.
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Old 05-26-2008, 07:40 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brucelee
Assuming you are using the clutch correctly, no worries.

Your engine is another matter. Keep redlining that baby and you will get a nice $12K surprise.

Good luck.

PS-Do a search here on blown engines. It may change your driving habits.

Good luck.
Where is the proof that shifting at redline (not exceeding it) hurts these cars?

I've shifted mine above 7000 at full throttle at least a 1000 times by now (15 times yesterday).

69,000 and counting.....
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Old 05-26-2008, 08:11 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Paul
Anyone doing this should be ready for some expensive tranny repairs.
While I wouldn't recommend doing it all the time, upshifting without the clutch in the way described won't damage the tranny. The problem is that when you push the lever forward to engage the synchro, the bigger the speed difference between the engine and tranny, the more wear you put on the synchro. If you're very skilled and consistent, you could probably keep wear to a minimum - but why do it? That's why you have a clutch in the first place. For me, it's a good technique to know (though not on my own Boxster - it's a Tip) in case you ever have clutch issues and need to get home.

If you want to really refine your skills, learn to downshift without the clutch, a bit more of a challenge to do it smoothly.

In terms of wear, the way I think of it is by the cost of the components. Brakes are cheaper than a clutch, and clutches are cheaper than a tranny. So, I use my brakes instead of engine braking, and use my clutch to minimize tranny wear. On my M3 and 914, I've always been in the habit of double-clutching all downshifts, it's only marginally slower and saves a bit of synchro wear, while giving you a jerk-free gearchange.
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Old 05-26-2008, 08:17 AM   #13
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I've been hearing this advice since the 70s, and have a long history of fixing teenager's transmissions after they have tried this.

If you wish not to use the clutch, install a tranny without synchros.
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Old 05-26-2008, 08:19 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brucelee
Assuming you are using the clutch correctly, no worries.

Your engine is another matter. Keep redlining that baby and you will get a nice $12K surprise.

Good luck.

PS-Do a search here on blown engines. It may change your driving habits.

Good luck.
Is this really true? My impression is that most of the dead motors I've seen on this forum weren't due to high revs, rather, they were caused by design flaws in the motor (e.g. cylinder liner, IMS) that weren't triggered by high revs.

If you can't redline your Porsche, what good is it? I've regularly redlined all the BMW's and Porsche's I've owned as that's what they were designed to do. I've banged the rev limiter on all my cars more times than I could count - even our Toyota minivan!
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Old 05-26-2008, 08:21 AM   #15
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Another Paul that knows how to drive Porsches!!!!
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Old 05-26-2008, 08:26 AM   #16
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Another Paul that knows how to drive Porsches!!!!
Now you've done it. It'll probably throw a rod the next time I hit redline
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Old 05-26-2008, 09:41 AM   #17
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Sorry, I have to chime in here...

Redline (max recommended RPM's) and rev limiters are in place for one reason and one reason only by the manufacturer. If you exceed them, permanent engine damage will result, period. So constant revving up to it- I'm sure isn't good.

As I said in a past post, the on board diagnostics records all over-rev's and length of ignition interruptions (rev limiter). Big brother's recording you and if the dealer sees it while doing warranty work, forget about it!

I guess you can rev minivans to redline all the time and nothing will harm them right?
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Old 05-26-2008, 10:04 AM   #18
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Chime heard, but I've been rebuilding motors since the 70s....

I agree about hitting the rev limiter during the warranty period, I try to shift just below it.
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Old 05-26-2008, 10:13 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaxonalden
Sorry, I have to chime in here...

Redline (max recommended RPM's) and rev limiters are in place for one reason and one reason only by the manufacturer. If you exceed them, permanent engine damage will result, period. So constant revving up to it- I'm sure isn't good.

As I said in a past post, the on board diagnostics records all over-rev's and length of ignition interruptions (rev limiter). Big brother's recording you and if the dealer sees it while doing warranty work, forget about it!

I guess you can rev minivans to redline all the time and nothing will harm them right?
I'm not concerned about the OBD records on my Boxster or my M3 for that matter. The engine has a maximum speed that it can be safely operated at, and your rev limiter prevents you from exceeding it. Touching factory redline under acceleration is not abuse for any motor I've ever owned. The actual amount of time your engine spends at redline is miniscule when compared to the amount of time you spend at part load and moderate engine speeds.

Many manufacturers (including Porsche) do endurance testing on their motors under lab and track conditions where the engines are run at or near redline conditions, with WOT, for hours at a time. No owner would ever have the opporunity to subject their motor to such stress.

The way I look at it is that if a motor cannot be operated at redline, then it isn't redline. If touching redline from time to time causes my motor to fail, then the motor's design and/or engineering is flawed, and if the manufacturer won't back up their product, then I won't buy from them again.
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Old 05-26-2008, 10:14 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul
Where is the proof that shifting at redline (not exceeding it) hurts these cars?

I've shifted mine above 7000 at full throttle at least a 1000 times by now (15 times yesterday).

69,000 and counting.....

Great quote there.

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