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Old 11-13-2007, 03:37 PM   #1
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Trial by Declaration

...can work. I finally got my fine refunded for a ticket back in January that I fought via trial-by-declaration in April (there's a thread on it somewhere if you look). Took them long enough, but I had a good case against the officer having any formal evidence, and the judge was convinced.

I'm not condoning ticket fighting (or acquiring). But for those that have recieved them (unlawfully or not) and were curious, trial-by-declaration can work (and was free ).

-David

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Old 11-13-2007, 03:39 PM   #2
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Very nice
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Old 11-13-2007, 03:45 PM   #3
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Glad you didn't have to pay! But what's trial by declaration?
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Old 11-13-2007, 03:51 PM   #4
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It's a method of trial for traffic tickets that exists in certain states. You request it during arraignment instead of a normal trial or traffic school. You just write up in you side of the story in a document and send it to the court. The officer is then pressed to write his or her own side of the story, and the judge looks at both and makes a decision.

It's a good first step if you want to skip lawyer fees or aren't so good at defending yourself in person (or if your schedule is just really busy). If you lose it, you can always request a real trial afterwards.
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Old 11-13-2007, 04:15 PM   #5
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That's cool!
Glad you won!
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Old 11-13-2007, 04:28 PM   #6
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Similar to my feeling on the chaos on the bogg thread, I say if you do the crime, then do the time. Don't cry about getting caught if you choose to step into the game - just be a man about it, chalk it up to life and move on. I just don't approve of side-stepping the technicalities of the law, just because you can, especially when you are truly guilty. I don't know your unique conviction(s) here nor am i concerned with the details, but unless truly prejudicial, I would have just paid the fine and be done with it.

There is something to be said of someone with honor and integrity.
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Old 11-13-2007, 04:38 PM   #7
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^ I totally agree, about that especially having integrity, and honor (In general, I am not bashing on David in any way). But it is nice to know that if a cop is just jerking you around there is an easy way to fight back.
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Old 11-13-2007, 05:10 PM   #8
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Great statement, however, I don't see where it has anything to do with the situation above. If a judge looks at the statements from the accused and the officer and made the decision that the case was bogus I think that only a fool would pay for that ticket. We have an obligation to pay taxes but that doesn't mean we have to pay more than we legitimately owe. Same with a ticket, if we feel that we didn't deserve a ticket and a judge agrees then I don't see the problem.
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Old 11-13-2007, 05:43 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meerzee
Similar to my feeling on the chaos on the bogg thread, I say if you do the crime, then do the time. Don't cry about getting caught if you choose to step into the game - just be a man about it, chalk it up to life and move on. I just don't approve of side-stepping the technicalities of the law, just because you can, especially when you are truly guilty. I don't know your unique conviction(s) here nor am i concerned with the details, but unless truly prejudicial, I would have just paid the fine and be done with it.

There is something to be said of someone with honor and integrity.
Meerzee,

I hope you read my thread titled "dismissed".....and in case you didn’t, I won my case in which I was “clocked in” at 124mph.

I still walk tall with my honor and integrity; in fact I think I am walking even taller. Although I can't say that the officer is doing the same.

Innocent until proven guilty! That’s why the USA is the greatest country in the world.

David, Congrats on your victory!
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Old 11-13-2007, 05:49 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meerzee
Similar to my feeling on the chaos on the bogg thread, I say if you do the crime, then do the time. Don't cry about getting caught if you choose to step into the game - just be a man about it, chalk it up to life and move on. I just don't approve of side-stepping the technicalities of the law, just because you can, especially when you are truly guilty. I don't know your unique conviction(s) here nor am i concerned with the details, but unless truly prejudicial, I would have just paid the fine and be done with it.

There is something to be said of someone with honor and integrity.
Meerzee, I think your comments are a little off-base, for the following reasons:

1) David is not crying nor whinning.
2) You did not even read his prior post- details are important when making sweeping comments like you have, your way is reckless
3) No need for the honor and integrity stab

Meerzee, I would add to say, while I agree with a lot of what you said, just not in the context of David's post.

Last edited by bmussatti; 11-13-2007 at 06:04 PM.
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Old 11-13-2007, 05:55 PM   #11
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Trial by declaration is something that might be unique to California. 100 years ago I prepared one for a clients/friend because he was in San Jose and the ticket was in the LA area.

He was an interesting kid. One of a triplet. The 3 brothers liked to swap licenses.

The most funny case I saw in traffic court was about 2 years ago. Not my case but the case in front of us.

The guy was representing himself, and the police officer showed up. I talked to the guy outside as he had all these pictures which had been blown up. He only knew that he had been cited for something under the Vehicle Code.

I watched the "trial." The officer testified the guy had not stopped completely at an intersection stop sign, but paused and then drove off. The guy started showing his pictures of the intersection to the officer. The officer admitted that was the intersection for which the ticket was written. Then the guy got a clue and pulled out a picture of the sign at the intersection. It was a yield, not a stop sign.

Then the (embarrassed) officer changed his story and testified that the guy did not "yield" fast enough.

Then it was our turn. Client/friend got a ticket for making a U-turn near a no U-turn sign. She told me she made the turn well before the sign. The sign was on a 4x4 post in the middle of the street on the island.

I went over to the crime scene for pictures of where she made a U-turn, and pictures of her vehicle in relationship to the no U-turn sign. Right before the trial she tells me the sign is gone.

I then take more picture of what is now an empty 4x4 post with no sign on it. Time to have fun with the officer.

Then the sign shows up on the post again, right before the trial.

Officer does not show up for the trial so the U-turn case is dismissed.

I do not do traffic cases so do not PM me.

Last edited by Tool Pants; 11-13-2007 at 05:58 PM.
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Old 11-13-2007, 05:56 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by TriGem2k
Meerzee,

I hope you read my thread titled "dismissed".....and in case you didn’t, I won my case in which I was “clocked in” at 124mph.

I still walk tall with my honor and integrity; in fact I think I am walking even taller. Although I can't say that the officer is doing the same.

Innocent until proven guilty! That’s why the USA is the greatest country in the world.

David, Congrats on your victory!
TriGem, while I am glad you got out of your ticket (very $$$) I sure hope you have learned a valuable lesson, and I bet you have.

With regard to honor & integrity, I make absolutely no judgment on yours what so ever. That's not my place.

And I am sure the officer is doing just fine with his honor & integrity too.

As for the Attorney that got you "off"...his H&I I would question a little.
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Old 11-13-2007, 06:07 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmussatti
TriGem, while I am glad you got out of your ticket (very $$$) I sure hope you have learned a valuable lesson, and I bet you have.

With regard to honor & integrity, I make absolutely no judgment on yours what so ever. That's not my place.

And I am sure the officer is doing just fine with his honor & integrity too.

As for the Attorney that got you "off"...his H&I I would question a little.

In 100% agreement with you. No arguement, specially about the H&I of the attorney.

Edit: bmussatti, I definitely learned a BIG lesson and haven't had any traffic issues since.
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Old 11-13-2007, 06:32 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TriGem2k
Meerzee,

I hope you read my thread titled "dismissed".....and in case you didn’t, I won my case in which I was “clocked in” at 124mph.

I still walk tall with my honor and integrity; in fact I think I am walking even taller. Although I can't say that the officer is doing the same.

Innocent until proven guilty! That’s why the USA is the greatest country in the world.
James,

Why wouldn't the Officer be walking tall as well? As I recall, he did clock you at 124 mph. He didn't make up the fact that you were speeding. He didn't entrap or mistreat you in any way. He did make a minor administrative mistake on the citation and you had the means to hire a high-priced lawyer to get you off. Is that something that the Officer should be ashamed of? Is that something that you should be proud of?

Don't get me wrong, I readily admit that I offered you advice that I hoped was helpful to you. I saw the incident as a young man who made a dumb mistake, which could have cost you dearly. The fact that you won your court case, however, doesn't make you right, nor is it something that the Officer should be ashamed of. The sad part for me is that rather than being humbled by the experience, you're here doing an end-zone dance because you got over on the Officer and the system. Lesson lost.

"Innocent until proven guilty" is an interesting proclamation for you to make, especially since you immediately came to the forum, admitted your guilt and asked for help.

Pleading not guilty and accepting a not guilty verdict knowing full well that you were in fact guilty? Then claiming that you are walking taller with your honor and integrity intact? Perhaps you and I have different definitions of honor and integrity. I'm disappointed because as a valuable learning opportunity, it would appear that your experience has been a failure. I'm not saying you're O.J. or anything; it was only a traffic ticket, but c'mon man.
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Old 11-13-2007, 07:14 PM   #15
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i had one of those go in my favor as well... good job
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Old 11-13-2007, 08:29 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TriGem2k
Meerzee,

I hope you read my thread titled "dismissed".....and in case you didn’t, I won my case in which I was “clocked in” at 124mph.

I still walk tall with my honor and integrity; in fact I think I am walking even taller. Although I can't say that the officer is doing the same.

Innocent until proven guilty! That’s why the USA is the greatest country in the world.

David, Congrats on your victory!
Now that is something to be proud of, getting off from a ticket doing 124MPH.
I don't believe that truly anything further needs to be said on this case.
Why don't you go for 135 while intoxicated then you can really celebrate!!!!
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Old 11-13-2007, 08:38 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by bmussatti
Meerzee, I think your comments are a little off-base, for the following reasons:

1) David is not crying nor whinning.
2) You did not even read his prior post- details are important when making sweeping comments like you have, your way is reckless
3) No need for the honor and integrity stab

Meerzee, I would add to say, while I agree with a lot of what you said, just not in the context of David's post.
Comments noted, and I respect your difference of opinion. I still firmly hold fast to the belief that if someone is knowingly in the wrong and are duly cited for violation of that statute then they -should- face the consequences of those offenses. Is that too much to ask?

(TriGem2K), how in the hell does that have anything to do with free speech or "innocent until proven guilty"? That sounds more like "guilty but hiding over here until I can figure out a way to avoid consequences of my own actions" ---

And you say that behavior is honorable?????
(not talking about David at all in this response) just responding to subsequent commentary on this thread.

I guess my point in all of this is truly that I would expect this behavior & prevalent reckless disregard on a Dodge Neon/Cavalier maybe even a ricer forum, but here at a Porsche forum? I just figured that there would be more of a refined and less immature nature. Spouting off and bragging about how someone feels "taller" that they avoided a ticket going 124 and how the cop probably feels dumb now, just sounds quite irresponsible & almost juvenile.

Isn't that the epitomy of "poser" behavior?

Last edited by meerzee; 11-13-2007 at 08:49 PM.
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Old 11-13-2007, 09:45 PM   #18
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Could we keep the thread topic on trial-by-declaration please?

-David
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Old 11-13-2007, 09:52 PM   #19
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yeah, home come lately all the threads get ruined?
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Old 11-13-2007, 11:59 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David N.
Could we keep the thread topic on trial-by-declaration please?

-David

David, sorry didn't intend on getting off topic.

If need be I will start a new thread in the morning.

Congrats again on the dismissle.

~James

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