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Old 05-12-2007, 09:00 AM   #1
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For you watch lovers....

There's a nice Porsche Design chrono for sale on timezone.com for $925...I emailed the guy about it and he is also a Boxster owner. He may even be a member here, for that matter. Anyway, just thought I'd throw that out there for those of you who have disposable income not already earmarked for car upgrades.

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Old 05-12-2007, 09:13 AM   #2
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I like the 911 Turbo watch... I've seen it as low as $570 on ebay...

But I just scored a used discontinued model of Casio Oceanus from a guy on another forum. Not a very expensive watch, but it's pretty nice regardless. I'm pretty picky about watches... I went through over 1000 on Overstock.com, and found maybe 2 that I actually liked.
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Old 05-12-2007, 06:42 PM   #3
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Love my Turbo watch....wear it every day, keeps better time than my SEL TAG!!!!!

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Old 05-12-2007, 06:46 PM   #4
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I probably should but a new watch, I have been wearing the same watch for 15 years!
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Old 05-12-2007, 10:27 PM   #5
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Hi,

As a 30 year Vintage Watch collector, I can tell you that any Porsche Design watch (a completely separate company from Porsche AG - the Car makers, with absolutely NO affiliation whatever) is essentially a cheap knock-off using a generic Swiss movement.

There are so many great watches to be found in the $500 - $1,000 range, why would you opt for a Cheapie just because it says Porsche or 911 on the face?...

Happy Motoring... Jim'99

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Old 05-12-2007, 10:50 PM   #6
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I have to agree with MNBoxster...so many better watches out there of higher quality for that money...but if that's something you really want my brother got his for about 200 bux, im not sure from where but im gonna assume ebay i can ask him and check if anyones insterested ...so just keep an eye out for a good deal its really not worth the high price IMO
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Old 05-13-2007, 03:18 AM   #7
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Hey MNBoxster...whats your view on the Omega Speedmaster?? (Latest model, medium face)......
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Old 05-13-2007, 05:00 AM   #8
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Now I'm not one to engage in on line bashing, but in this case I feel compelled to weigh in. Jim, you have opened your mouth, clearly, without knowing what you are talking about in this particular case. The chrono in question is made by Eterna, an excellent watch company (surely you're familiar with their COSC Kon Tiki dive watch) using a Valjoux 7750 movement. The Valjoux is used by most of the high end makers for their chronos except for the rare few with an in house movement. I doubt you will find a chrono with a saphire crystal, Valjoux movement, and solid steel bracelet with solid end links for a couple hundred dollars.
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Old 05-13-2007, 05:02 AM   #9
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Thank for the heads up. I do like watches but I can think of better and nicer looking watches than the Porsche watch. I personally don't think it is a very nice looking watch. Besides I bet it has a nice premium on the price just because it's a "Porsche watch". They are a great sports car company and when I spend another $925 it will be on something for the car. When it comes to watches I'll stick with Omega, Rollex, Tag Heuer, Tissot...

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Old 05-13-2007, 07:55 AM   #10
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Well, I just scored a Casio Oceanus OC-500 from a guy on another forum.

Apparently Casio split off Oceanus (kinda like Lexus is to Toyota) into a high end watch maker. A lot of new Oceanus watches are in the $400-900 range.

Not sure how much the watch I scored is worth... I've heard from one guy that says he got his for cheap at Costco a few years back... but given I've seen similar models for $400... I think I scored getting the watch for $50.
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Old 05-13-2007, 08:02 AM   #11
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@Y2BOX-you meant this one, right? I like it, once a month I stop by to the jewelry store that has it so I could try it on and take a look at it since December I'm still saving for it and when Im ready...bmussati to the rescue



For now I have the
Tissot

and Invicta Grand Diver (my daily watch)

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Old 05-13-2007, 09:24 AM   #12
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Someday I want to replace my old Rolex Stainless and Gold datejust with a Daytona, I love that watch but it's just so damn expensive!
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Old 05-14-2007, 07:14 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmcutter
Now I'm not one to engage in on line bashing, but in this case I feel compelled to weigh in. Jim, you have opened your mouth, clearly, without knowing what you are talking about in this particular case. The chrono in question is made by Eterna, an excellent watch company (surely you're familiar with their COSC Kon Tiki dive watch) using a Valjoux 7750 movement. The Valjoux is used by most of the high end makers for their chronos except for the rare few with an in house movement. I doubt you will find a chrono with a saphire crystal, Valjoux movement, and solid steel bracelet with solid end links for a couple hundred dollars.

Hi,

No sir, I beg to disagree. The Valjoux 7750 Engine was first produced in 1974 as an alternative to the expensive Auto Winding movements available at the time.

It is an economy Engine designed to be cheaply manufactured to allow Fine and Luxury Watchmakers to produce lines in the mid-priced range and thereby increase their Market breadth. It substitutes many wedges, rather than traditional precision screws, and the packaging of many component groups onto large plates to help it achieve this ease of manufacture. But, keep in mind that the sole purpose of it's creation was to be cheaper to produce. It's a good, though not the best movement available in it's price range - compromises were incorporated into the design.

It is not made by Eterna, but by Valjoux SA. Valjoux offers the 7750 Engine in 3 distinct levels of quality and sophistication - the Elaboré, Top, and Chronomètre. The Porsche Design watch uses the Elabore' movement, the most basic of the 7750 Engines. It has also been versatile enough to have several variants produced from the same basic design - the 7760 (Manual Wind w/Date), the 7751 and 7761 (Manual Wind w/ Moon Phase and Date), 7758 (Manual Wind w/ Moon Phase) and the 7765 (Manual Wind w/o 12-Hour Counter).

Prior to the 1950's, chronometres were not extremely accurate as they beat in the 18,000 BPH (Beats per Hour or every 0.2 seconds) (or VPH in the case of a Quartz Engine) . To improve accuracy, it was known that this BPH needed to be increased. Steadily, through the 1960's, BPH increased until Zenith produced the first Engine to achieve 36,000 BPH in 1969. The Valjoux 7750 has a BPH of only 28,000, repectable, but certainly not leading edge.

Also, the 7750 is the bain of most watch repairers - it is very difficult to repair. Major portions of the movement are mounted on large plates rather than each having it own distinctive mounting. This means that to clean/adjust one part, you're disconnecting several adjacent pieces, which now have to be re-aligned and set along with the selected part. This also makes them very expensive to repair - sometimes upwards of 50-75% of the Purchase Price of the watch - hardly an outstanding feature.

The Kon-Tiki, while a good watch, is far from the finest example of the Watchmakers art. It was a commemorative put out by Eterna in 1974 (27 years after Thor Hyerdahl's famed voyage - he never wore one). Heyerdahl wore an Eterna with the Eterna-matic engine, a rotor-based engine (produced in-house) running on Ball Bearings - 5 to be precise - an Eterna trademark. He wore this watch because Eterna was a major undewriter of his expedition.

Also, Eterna used the 7750 only in it's Kon Tiki. It usually used ETA Engines produced by ETA S.A., which it spunoff in the early 1930's from Eterna S.A. . ETA makes some fine engines which are used by vitually every large Watchmaker in Switzerland.

Eterna S.A. was purchased by Ferdinand Alexander Porsche in the mid-'90s. 'Butzi', Ferdi's Grandson, was in the design studio at Porsche when the 911 was originally penned and is said to have contributed greatly to the basic design. He left Porsche AG and founded Porsche Design in 1973, a completely separate company. Their first product was a chronograph made by Orfina and used the Valjoux 7750 Engine. Later, this movement was switched to the Lemania 5100 Engine as this was deemed more rugged. Their current chronograph reverted back to the 7750 Engine, but only because it allowed them to meet a price point, not because of any inherent technical superiority, in fact, the movement is now quite dated.

So, it's of little surprise that Eterna and Valjoux combine to produce the Porsche Design Chronometres, not for any particular technical excellence, but as a practical, cost-cutting alternative.

I don't claim be be all-knowing in the field of Fine Watch manufacture, never said I did. But, I'm pretty comfortable that I at least know a little about the subject...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

Last edited by MNBoxster; 05-14-2007 at 09:12 AM.
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Old 05-14-2007, 07:33 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Gelefsky
Someday I want to replace my old Rolex Stainless and Gold datejust with a Daytona, I love that watch but it's just so damn expensive!
Boy that's no lie! I went into a big Rolex shop in NYC last week and the sales person told me that the stainless Daytonas have over a year long waiting list which has jacked up the price from $7,000 to nearly $12,000. "Too bad you don't have it I guess I'll have to go home with my $12,000"
The good news is there is no wait for a platinum Daytona, just $40,000. A bargain!



This is a nice design
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Old 05-14-2007, 11:32 AM   #15
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Wink Rolex vs(any other watch)

When shopping recently for a watch I visited a store that sold Rolex, and several other high price brands (Tag etc). I commented to the sales person how the other, non-rolex watches appeared to be a better deal. He replied, less money, yes, but think of the deal this way-when you buy a Rolex, it's like buying real estate- value goes up, can not be said of any other watch in the store.
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Old 05-14-2007, 12:12 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Patrick
When shopping recently for a watch I visited a store that sold Rolex, and several other high price brands (Tag etc). I commented to the sales person how the other, non-rolex watches appeared to be a better deal. He replied, less money, yes, but think of the deal this way-when you buy a Rolex, it's like buying real estate- value goes up, can not be said of any other watch in the store.
Is that useful though? I worked at Zales when I was in college. One of the things they told us to push was that diamonds are an investment. I never thought this was good logic. Yeah, maybe the thing goes up in value, but is someone really going to hock their engagement ring because it appreciated by some large percentage? I am hoping to sell my house one day for a lot more than I paid for it, but if I bought a Rolex, I am not sure I would ever want to part with it. Might be different for those of you who are collectors though...
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Old 05-14-2007, 12:17 PM   #17
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Rolex appreciate? Hmmm I'm not so sure if that's MOSTLY true. Some, like any other collectible are sought after if they are well cared for.
If a daily worn watch actually holds all of its value and possibly goes up in a value... then I think I may need to buy one afterall.
Let's see if that $5,000 is still under the sofa cushions.
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Old 05-14-2007, 01:10 PM   #18
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Is Valjoux movement worse than ETA's?

Jim,

I'm into watches too, but not an expert. Are you implying that Valjoux movement is worse than ETA's? I do agree that most high end watches use ETA, except ones that uses their own in house movement (ie JLC), or in certain cases, other great movements (ie Piguet). I find that many sub $5k chrono watches use Valjoux 7750 or ETA 2892. I always thought they are sort of equals.... but i guess both Valjoux and ETA produce different classes of movements.



Quote:
Originally Posted by MNBoxster
Hi,

No sir, I beg to disagree. The Valjoux 7750 Engine was first produced in 1974 as an alternative to the expensive Auto Winding movements available at the time.

It is an economy Engine designed to be cheaply manufactured to allow Fine and Luxury Watchmakers to produce lines in the mid-priced range and thereby increase their Market breadth. It substitutes many wedges, rather than traditional precision screws, and the packaging of many component groups onto large plates to help it achieve this ease of manufacture. But, keep in mind that the sole purpose of it's creation was to be cheaper to produce. It's a good, though not the best movement available in it's price range - compromises were incorporated into the design.

It is not made by Eterna, but by Valjoux SA. Valjoux offers the 7750 Engine in 3 distinct levels of quality and sophistication - the Elaboré, Top, and Chronomètre. The Porsche Design watch uses the Elabore' movement, the most basic of the 7750 Engines. It has also been versatile enough to have several variants produced from the same basic design - the 7760 (Manual Wind w/Date), the 7751 and 7761 (Manual Wind w/ Moon Phase and Date), 7758 (Manual Wind w/ Moon Phase) and the 7765 (Manual Wind w/o 12-Hour Counter).

Prior to the 1950's, chronometres were not extremely accurate as they beat in the 18,000 BPH (Beats per Hour or every 0.2 seconds) (or VPH in the case of a Quartz Engine) . To improve accuracy, it was known that this BPH needed to be increased. Steadily, through the 1960's, BPH increased until Zenith produced the first Engine to achieve 36,000 BPH in 1969. The Valjoux 7750 has a BPH of only 28,000, repectable, but certainly not leading edge.

Also, the 7750 is the bain of most watch repairers - it is very difficult to repair. Major portions of the movement are mounted on large plates rather than each having it own distinctive mounting. This means that to clean/adjust one part, you're disconnecting several adjacent pieces, which now have to be re-aligned and set along with the selected part. This also makes them very expensive to repair - sometimes upwards of 50-75% of the Purchase Price of the watch - hardly an outstanding feature.

The Kon-Tiki, while a good watch, is far from the finest example of the Watchmakers art. It was a commemorative put out by Eterna in 1974 (27 years after Thor Hyerdahl's famed voyage - he never wore one). Heyerdahl wore an Eterna with the Eterna-matic engine, a rotor-based engine (produced in-house) running on Ball Bearings - 5 to be precise - an Eterna trademark. He wore this watch because Eterna was a major undewriter of his expedition.

Also, Eterna used the 7750 only in it's Kon Tiki. It usually used ETA Engines produced by ETA S.A., which it spunoff in the early 1930's from Eterna S.A. . ETA makes some fine engines which are used by vitually every large Watchmaker in Switzerland.

Eterna S.A. was purchased by Ferdinand Alexander Porsche in the mid-'90s. 'Butzi', Ferdi's Grandson, was in the design studio at Porsche when the 911 was originally penned and is said to have contributed greatly to the basic design. He left Porsche AG and founded Porsche Design in 1973, a completely separate company. Their first product was a chronograph made by Orfina and used the Valjoux 7750 Engine. Later, this movement was switched to the Lemania 5100 Engine as this was deemed more rugged. Their current chronograph reverted back to the 7750 Engine, but only because it allowed them to meet a price point, not because of any inherent technical superiority, in fact, the movement is now quite dated.

So, it's of little surprise that Eterna and Valjoux combine to produce the Porsche Design Chronometres, not for any particular technical excellence, but as a practical, cost-cutting alternative.

I don't claim be be all-knowing in the field of Fine Watch manufacture, never said I did. But, I'm pretty comfortable that I at least know a little about the subject...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99
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Old 05-14-2007, 01:16 PM   #19
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Value of Rolex's go up because there are many who still think Rolex is a status symbol and are willing to pay for used ones. You'll be lucky to recoup your investment on majority of watches you buy. The "loss" when u sell is the $ you pay to "enjoy" the watch!

I have a feeling you visited Ben Bridge because they carry Rolex, Tag and Omegas. Visit Toureau, specially the one in Vegas, you'll find some "real" nice watches there, not just Tags

oh one exception to the rule regarding watches as investment, the Panerai pheonenom is quite interesting. I can sell my Pam for a small profit now because Panerai increases its price quite often and the supply is low. Used Panerai in nice conditions usually sells for 85% or more of retail.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Patrick
When shopping recently for a watch I visited a store that sold Rolex, and several other high price brands (Tag etc). I commented to the sales person how the other, non-rolex watches appeared to be a better deal. He replied, less money, yes, but think of the deal this way-when you buy a Rolex, it's like buying real estate- value goes up, can not be said of any other watch in the store.

Last edited by yellowbox; 05-14-2007 at 01:20 PM.
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Old 05-14-2007, 01:20 PM   #20
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Smile My Timex keeps better time!

I own a Rolex(stainless model) not the "high priced" stuff- and I am very happy with it. Looks great, and is comfortable and durable. However is not as accurate as my $25.00 Timex

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