986 Weird engine issue.

[blue62]

Originally Posted by kbod

sounds fair enough. upon research I just noticed this is quite the task as it seems to be a common failure point on these cars although i can only seem to find replacement solenoids and i cant find a replacement actuator nor is there a general idea of what usually is the culprit. Some say the plastic guides wear down, some say stuck actuator, some say solenoids. I just want to know that if I am going to suffer in removing the valve covers which are integrated to the cams..I change the right part. And taking off the camshaft doesn't seem fun either, considering I really don't want to drop this engine. I guess ill start with the 400$ scan tool just to see what i'm really going to have to spend on haha. thanks!

Yes that is why I stressed getting to know the system as part of doing a proper diagnosis. The fix can be lots of work and expense or something relatively simple and cheap. that's where a proper diagnosis comes in.
You can test the wiring to the solenoid with a simple Digital Volt Meter but you need to know what wire is what and the voltage specs.
As you try to fix the issue work from simplest thing first to the more complex step by step. So I would start with the wiring and work my way up.
Lots of discussion on this issue here on the forum. So using the search function should help you out if you haven't done that already.
Keep us posted on your progress
We learn a lot about these cars from others experiences.

[kbod]

as for the scanner, is there a specific foxwell scanner that has the functions of seeing the engine data that I need for this project or is that a durametric only thing. Also is there any fsm paperwork on this issue?

[Starter986]

Originally Posted by kbod

as for the scanner, is there a specific foxwell scanner that has the functions of seeing the engine data that I need for this project or is that a durametric only thing. Also is there any fsm paperwork on this issue?

I haven't yet purchased it. However, everything I've read upon the pages in this forum, and some of my own research, points to the Durmetric. At the very least, the enthusiast model. Likely it will pay for itself first time you plug it in. Electrical gremlins can be quite costly. How much does your local Porsche indi charge for an hour? Two? That's the math I did, but haven't been forced into a corner compelling the purchase.

There's your Durmetric.

[blue62]

Originally Posted by kbod

as for the scanner, is there a specific foxwell scanner that has the functions of seeing the engine data that I need for this project or is that a durametric only thing. Also is there any fsm paperwork on this issue?

Sorry double post.

[blue62]

Originally Posted by kbod

as for the scanner, is there a specific foxwell scanner that has the functions of seeing the engine data that I need for this project or is that a durametric only thing. Also is there any fsm paperwork on this issue?

I have a Foxwell NT520 Pro cost around $175.00 shipped.
You can get it loaded with any manufactures programing. Ford,Porsche, what ever.
You can also down load additional programing for an added fee. So if you own say a Honda and a Porsche like I do, you can use the scanner on both. It gives you OBDII code reading and manufacture specific codes of which ever manufactures programs you have loaded.
It gives you live data, graphing, component actuation such as fuel injectors, heater fan, cooling fans, What ever the manufactures programing allows in the way of component access. So with the Porsche program I can test or actuate anything on my 2000S Boxster that my Durametric can actuate or test.

The advantage of the Durametric (for myself). is the big laptop screen.
It allows me to graph several signals at once and compare them.
On the Foxwell I can only graph two signals at once and the screen is small.

The bigger issue with any scanner or test equipment is knowing what your looking at and how to use it in a diagnostic process.
Which for me is always an ongoing process.

FSM paperwork?? just so we are on the same page do you mean Factory Service +Maintenance paperwork???? Or???

[kbod]

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[blue62]

Originally Posted by kbod

Yea, Just overall documentation on the process of even working on this car. Im not new to big engine work, Ive done plenty of timing chains on n26 bmws, along with 6cl toyota motors. But this is my first time getting into a porsche flat 6, And there are no videos or any documentation ive found on working on these cars, In the event I do have to change the solenoid or actuator Im sure it wont be easy. Ill look into the foxwell scanner, and do some research on which parts I need to test and how.

Factory type info on these cars is hard to come by.
I think there are a series of documents (in three ring binder form).
That covers everything about the cars. But I believe they are out of print, hard to find, and expensive.

There are people here on the forum that are very knowledgeable about these cars.
So I think you could get help or clarification from fellow forum members with most issues.

[mikefocke]

Most of the factory produced documentation that was around for the early 986 cars was never updated with any of the many updates Porsche put out. So while good, there are errors.

And for later cars, there was no printed repair and diagnosis manuals, just the online info for which you had to be a dealer or have really seriously deep pockets to purchase.

About 2-3 years ago on the forum someone really went into the systems you are looking at and posted theory and testing approaches but on which forum and who it was ... I'm too old to remember. Search is you friend.

[kbod]

https://www.pelicanparts.com/techarticles/Boxster_Tech/16-ENGINE-Camshaft_Swap_and_Chain_Tensioner/16-ENGINE-Camshaft_Swap_and_Chain_Tensioner.htm

This seems to be a decent source, Although it really only mentions replacing the solenoid. Hopefully thats all thats wrong with the car considering I cant even find a replacement actuator.

[kbod]

i just bought an autell maxidiag 806, ive heard it can do alot so hopefully it works well on the car. do any of you know about it?

[Gilles]

Originally Posted by kbod

Yea, Just overall documentation on the process of even working on this car. Im not new to big engine work, Ive done plenty of timing chains on n26 bmws, along with 6cl toyota motors. But this is my first time getting into a porsche flat 6, And there are no videos or any documentation ive found on working on these cars, In the event I do have to change the solenoid or actuator Im sure it wont be easy. Ill look into the foxwell scanner, and do some research on which parts I need to test and how.

Kbod, The knowledge group (flat6innovations) offer their engine assembly on a CD package that covers everything you will need (but will set you back about $600..)

https://www.theknowledgegruppe.com/

[kbod]

Originally Posted by blue62

Yes that is why I stressed getting to know the system as part of doing a proper diagnosis. The fix can be lots of work and expense or something relatively simple and cheap. that's where a proper diagnosis comes in.
You can test the wiring to the solenoid with a simple Digital Volt Meter but you need to know what wire is what and the voltage specs.
As you try to fix the issue work from simplest thing first to the more complex step by step. So I would start with the wiring and work my way up.
Lots of discussion on this issue here on the forum. So using the search function should help you out if you haven't done that already.
Keep us posted on your progress
We learn a lot about these cars from others experiences.

Alright, Just got a nice scan tool in, sure enough I have only one engine fault. the p1341 code. and sure enough it idles like crap. Going through the live data both banks have cam deviations in the 6 range. missfire counter looks great and mass air flow and voltages look good as well, Do any of you have a link for perhaps a forum post on what the testing procedure for the solenoid and actuator is?

[kbod]

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[blue62]

Originally Posted by kbod

Ok I just did some live data testing....the thing wouldn't recreate the problem. The timing on both banks was consistently even as the idle fluctuated. My question is, what would be symbolic of a failed solenoid versus a failed actuator/tensioner assembly. Because from what i know a solenoid is a 200 dollar part which only requires the valve cover removal..... whilst a tensioner assembly is a MASSIVE undertaking involving camshaft and timing chain removal... ive narrowed it down to either a solenoid or actuator issue... I just need to see which one it is before I start spending and the car really has no pattern with this problem, sometimes it just does not do it. Sometimes it will do it at cold idle, sometimes it will do it after warming up, I might add the car was sitting for 3 years until this month, if that changes anything, although it runs amazing and revs like a champ.. Although I noticed sometimes the car takes extra long to start. sometimes it doesn't and starts right up super fast, one time it refused to start at all and I had to press the gas pedal while cranking for a bit to get it to roar to life.... I feel like that might be connected who knows...

first: I would test the wiring to the solenoid.
I don't know if the wiring to the solenoid is just a 12 volt hot and a ground or???
So you will need a wiring diagram.
Second: If your scanner has component test capability you could actuate the Variocam system one bank at a time. With key on engine off and listen for the solenoid to actuate=click.
Doing this with key on engine off you should be able to hear the solenoid work because it is electric component.
but the actuator will not activate because it needs oil pressure to work.

[kbod]

I also believe this can be done with a little battery right?

[Homeoboxter]

Originally Posted by kbod

Ok I just did some live data testing....the thing wouldn't recreate the problem. The timing on both banks was consistently even as the idle fluctuated. My question is, what would be symbolic of a failed solenoid versus a failed actuator/tensioner assembly. Because from what i know a solenoid is a 200 dollar part which only requires the valve cover removal..... whilst a tensioner assembly is a MASSIVE undertaking involving camshaft and timing chain removal... ive narrowed it down to either a solenoid or actuator issue... I just need to see which one it is before I start spending and the car really has no pattern with this problem, sometimes it just does not do it. Sometimes it will do it at cold idle, sometimes it will do it after warming up, I might add the car was sitting for 3 years until this month, if that changes anything, although it runs amazing and revs like a champ.. Although I noticed sometimes the car takes extra long to start. sometimes it doesn't and starts right up super fast, one time it refused to start at all and I had to press the gas pedal while cranking for a bit to get it to roar to life.... I feel like that might be connected who knows...

As Blue said, the solenoid is easy to test using 12V or even a 9V battery. You should hear an audible click. You can also measure the resistance with an Ohm meter to see if it`s shorted or broken. Replacing the solenoid is a big undertaking too, because you
need to remove the cover and you have not much room. It`s not such a big deal to pull the cams from that point.

If the solenoids are fine, you may still have faulty actuators. A relatively easy test is to use a small camera and inspect the switchover. You can also take a peek onto the small chain pad that wears relatively fast and can cause timing issues.

[kbod]

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[Homeoboxter]

Originally Posted by kbod

Alright, I just did some more testing. At idle it all seems good and the timing fluctuated but at 3000 rpm bank 2 switches timing quickly but bank 1 takes a while to respond, tonight I plan on testing the solenoid clicks, I previously posted a link to a pelican guide on changing the solenoid, for that all I have to do is lock timing and remove the head covers. But for the tensioner actuator replacement not only it’s a 1,000$ part, it also involves removing the camshaft. and I’ve heard horror stories from other forum members on getting it back together If any of you have access to a video or guide on that job It would be super helpful. But as of right now I’ve concluded it’s not a connection issue and there is just a sticking issue where it takes long to change timing and it takes long to switch back I’ll report back tonight on how testing the solenoid goes.

Once you have the cover off it`s recommended to pull the camshafts anyway, so you can replace the two small chain pads on the actuator. The actuator comes off together with the small chain and the two camshafts as a unit. It`s not difficult to do if you have the correct tools. Take a look at this thread, you may find some useful info: Blue boxster resurrection project

[kbod]

Originally Posted by Homeoboxter

Once you have the cover off it`s recommended to pull the camshafts anyway, so you can replace the two small chain pads on the actuator. The actuator comes off together with the small chain and the two camshafts as a unit. It`s not difficult to do if you have the correct tools. Take a look at this thread, you may find some useful info: Blue boxster resurrection project

My biggest fear is not taking the car apart, There is Plenty of information on getting it apart... but I have found absolutely 0 information or guides on actually replacing the actuator and getting those camshafts back on... Once I take the tension off the chain and take the cams off all the valves return to their resting position... So upon reinstalling the cam I have to get it on JUST right and idk how...