Any progress on V8 engine swap options?

[Qingdao]

If you are making a custom throttle cable attachment I just did some work to an early 00 Ford Escape. They use the same throttle cable end. Should someone need to make custom bracketry for their throttle cable you can use those drive by cable Ford V6 cables.

I just had to make a bracket for my car (although not a V8). It was JUST long enough to work. However, placement on the edelbrock's throttle had to be moved slightly inbound towards the center of movement. (I don't know how to describe what I did LOL)

[Quadcammer]

is titanium dave still making these cradles? I'm considering this but would need to plan ahead.

I'd likely use the ays engine if I could find one with dme and the s6 euro tune.

For people using this, were you able to delete any SAI, EGR, fuel vent valve stuff? My car is track only so I'd like to delete all this crap.

Then I'd use the stock dme to control the body/dash.

seems thats the most common route.

Also, is anyone concerned at how close that oil filter is to the exhaust manifold? No heat shielding?

Finally, how is the oil starvation with this motor?

thanks all.

[truegearhead]

Originally Posted by Quadcammer

is titanium dave still making these cradles? I'm considering this but would need to plan ahead.

I'd likely use the ays engine if I could find one with dme and the s6 euro tune.

For people using this, were you able to delete any SAI, EGR, fuel vent valve stuff? My car is track only so I'd like to delete all this crap.

Then I'd use the stock dme to control the body/dash.

seems thats the most common route.

Also, is anyone concerned at how close that oil filter is to the exhaust manifold? No heat shielding?

Finally, how is the oil starvation with this motor?

thanks all.

If you want an Audi ecu that has the immobilizer removed and the rear O2 sensors disabled let me know. I have one that I had made for my car but since I’m turbo’ing it I went stand alone.

Also I ditched the factory oil filter and cooler aetup and installed a remote filter and accusump. If you want to go this route I can show you what I did

[Quadcammer]

how are you mounting the engine? Do you have a workable cradle design?

Have you looked into oil starvation? I haven't seen many people tracking this engine so google hasn't told me much.

[truegearhead]

Originally Posted by Quadcammer

how are you mounting the engine? Do you have a workable cradle design?

Have you looked into oil starvation? I haven't seen many people tracking this engine so google hasn't told me much.

I do have an engine cradle that had a fabricator make up. It’s all bolted up and in the car. Seems like it’ll work. I didn’t modify the car at all (or at least not the bolt the engine up). I used the factory engine mount and location plus a cradle

I have looked into oil starvation and haven’t heard anyone mention that it a problem but who knows. The good news is these motors are cheap! There are quite a few racing abz’s out there and there’s no mention of it so I guess it’s safe?

[titaniumdave]

Originally Posted by truegearhead

I do have an engine cradle that had a fabricator make up. It’s all bolted up and in the car. Seems like it’ll work. I didn’t modify the car at all (or at least not the bolt the engine up). I used the factory engine mount and location plus a cradle

I have looked into oil starvation and haven’t heard anyone mention that it a problem but who knows. The good news is these motors are cheap! There are quite a few racing abz’s out there and there’s no mention of it so I guess it’s safe?

With the large oil capacity and the flat pan we don't think there will be any issues. I have tipped the engine so the oil pick up is even lower with my cradle, we will be running an Accsump in our racecar as a belt and suspenders approach.

[titaniumdave]

I have a few folks interested in getting cradles so I will be make another batch of them in early 2021. Please e-mail me if you want to buy one. Cost will be $980 for the complete kit like I have supplied in the past, this includes a bolt set, front stabilizer bracket and PS pulley delete spacer.

titaniumdave@msn.com

[Quadcammer]

to bring this up, I've had a hard time finding decent audi v8s in my area. One engine that appears quite similar that has come up is the VW phaeton 4.2 v8, which I have to assume has the same bolt pattern and size as the audi v8, which I'm guessing is mostly identical. There are low mile versions of these motors for cheap and they make 330bhp

Any insight about this motor would be great.

thanks!

[ike84]

Originally Posted by Quadcammer

to bring this up, I've had a hard time finding decent audi v8s in my area. One engine that appears quite similar that has come up is the VW phaeton 4.2 v8, which I have to assume has the same bolt pattern and size as the audi v8, which I'm guessing is mostly identical. There are low mile versions of these motors for cheap and they make 330bhp

Any insight about this motor would be great.

thanks!

There are subtle differences between the audis and vw V8s, mostly in the internals if I recall correctly. You can find detailed factory manuals on both of them to read more (it's been a while since I've looked at them but I don't recall the specifics). One thing to definitely look at though is whether it is an fsi generation - if it is, it becomes much more difficult of a build because these require factory harness and ecu's to run (unless you are going to run motronic, which is hella expensive). This then complicates other issues such as transmission(phaetons weren't offered in a manual) and other peripherals (factor MAF, sensors, etc). The ecus can be modified (nefmoto is an entire community dedicated to this) but be prepared to dive balls deep if you want any chance of doing it right.

Disclaimer - I don't have any direct experience with these motors. This is just what I learned in researching the swaps a few months back.

Sent from my POCOPHONE F1 using Tapatalk

[Quadcammer]

Originally Posted by ike84

There are subtle differences between the audis and vw V8s, mostly in the internals if I recall correctly. You can find detailed factory manuals on both of them to read more (it's been a while since I've looked at them but I don't recall the specifics). One thing to definitely look at though is whether it is an fsi generation - if it is, it becomes much more difficult of a build because these require factory harness and ecu's to run (unless you are going to run motronic, which is hella expensive). This then complicates other issues such as transmission(phaetons weren't offered in a manual) and other peripherals (factor MAF, sensors, etc). The ecus can be modified (nefmoto is an entire community dedicated to this) but be prepared to dive balls deep if you want any chance of doing it right.

Disclaimer - I don't have any direct experience with these motors. This is just what I learned in researching the swaps a few months back.

Sent from my POCOPHONE F1 using Tapatalk

Thanks. This is not the fsi motor, i believe its a standard 40v audi unit with the me7.1.1 computer. Not sure about the intake srage count but i understand the tranny should bolt up. Not sure where people are finding good cheap audi motors.

[ike84]

Originally Posted by Quadcammer

Thanks. This is not the fsi motor, i believe its a standard 40v audi unit with the me7.1.1 computer. Not sure about the intake srage count but i understand the tranny should bolt up. Not sure where people are finding good cheap audi motors.

The audis are coming from eBay. An ABZ can be found for$500-600 pretty easily.

Btw, the main drawback of the 40v was the chain tensioner system for the timing chain. As with our ims, they are the achilles heel of the motor. They are an expensive fix though, even with the motor already out of the car.

Sent from my POCOPHONE F1 using Tapatalk

[Quadcammer]

Originally Posted by ike84

The audis are coming from eBay. An ABZ can be found for$500-600 pretty easily.

Btw, the main drawback of the 40v was the chain tensioner system for the timing chain. As with our ims, they are the achilles heel of the motor. They are an expensive fix though, even with the motor already out of the car.

Sent from my POCOPHONE F1 using Tapatalk

This is a belt driven 40v.

My plan, thus far is this:

TI dave cradle
phaeton V8
2001 A6 ECU with Immo off and s6 tune
Stock motronic for dash only
986 5 speed with drilled vss hole and 2mm spacer
No AC and electric powersteering.

Since I have a 99, I'm wondering what to do about my return style fuel system? I guess I could just run the feed line and cap the return near the tank?

Also, the 40v come with this goofy built in oil/coolant heat exchanger/oil filter thing. I'd like to delete that mess and just run an external oil cooler and filter. Anybody tackle that? Doesn't seem to be an off the shelf solution for the later v8s.

Thanks all. I'm getting more amped about this project.

[truegearhead]

I posted this on an Audi forum with no luck and can't find the info any where else. Long shot on this thread but do any of you Audi V8 guys know where the Audi brake booster vacuum port is on the intake manifold?

[1thenaton1]

Originally Posted by Quadcammer

This is a belt driven 40v.

My plan, thus far is this:

TI dave cradle
phaeton V8
2001 A6 ECU with Immo off and s6 tune
Stock motronic for dash only
986 5 speed with drilled vss hole and 2mm spacer
No AC and electric powersteering.

Since I have a 99, I'm wondering what to do about my return style fuel system? I guess I could just run the feed line and cap the return near the tank?

Also, the 40v come with this goofy built in oil/coolant heat exchanger/oil filter thing. I'd like to delete that mess and just run an external oil cooler and filter. Anybody tackle that? Doesn't seem to be an off the shelf solution for the later v8s.

Thanks all. I'm getting more amped about this project.

In order to run TI Dave's cradle, you'll need to run the A6/S6 style engine mount brackets, which include the oil cooler/ oil filter housing. The A8/S8 mounts will not work.

The 4.2 engines in the A6/S6 run a return style fuel system with a 4 bar FPR on the fuel rail, you should probably keep the return style fuel system.

Update on my side, I have about 15 hrs into the wiring and think i have most of it sorted. Communicated with the Audi ECU via VCDS last session and hoping for a first start soon.

[1thenaton1]

Got mine started!

Having some trouble getting the tach sorted. My car is a '98 so no CAN. Can anyone confirm where the cluster gets tach signal? My notes say pin 15.

I have the Bosch crank position sensor sending info to this spot but it's not moving the tach. Anyone dealt with this successfully?

Thanks

[78F350]

I'm pretty sure that the tach signal is not from the sensor, but converted within the ECU. On the 7.2 ECU it is, but I don't have any reference handy for a '98/2.5L harness. There was some discussion with the LS swaps between John and VLad using a converter. Some of that is here: V8 Conversion

If I remember and have time, I'll track it down for you.

[78F350]

From the 986 Factory Service Manual, Audi A6 (C5) Bentley and a few old spreadsheets I made, here's a simplified diagram:


That's from the 1998 Boxster and 40 valve AWN engine A6. The 32 valve V8s will have a different ECM pinout, but I have that filed somewhere too if it's needed.
That same signal should also be run to pin 9 of the OBD port.

I have not tried it yet. I'm curious if the signal output by the Audi ECM is identical to the one put out by the Boxster's DME. I expect that it will work and not make smoke come out of the cluster.

[1thenaton1]

Thanks so much for that info. Your link above sent me in the direction of signal modifiers for tachs and think that may be the ticket, using the signal at a coil pack translated into what the cluster needs to see for RPM.

The Audi ECU that I'm running (2002 S8) sends tach signal to its cluster by CAN, and the 98 Porsche cluster does not use CAN.
[addit] Sending the Audi ECU signal (CAN) to the newer 986 cluster works straight away, confirmed by others using newer 986s for the swap. I am next going to try a tach adapter to see if I can match what the older 986 cluster expects to see for tach signal [addit]

I'll post after giving this a shot. Cheers

[strombomb]

Originally Posted by 1thenaton1

Thanks so much for that info. Your link above sent me in the direction of signal modifiers for tachs and think that may be the ticket, using the signal at a coil pack translated into what the cluster needs to see for RPM.



The Audi ECU that I'm running (2002 S8) sends tach signal to its cluster by CAN, and the 98 Porsche cluster does not use CAN.

[addit] Sending the Audi ECU signal (CAN) to the newer 986 cluster works straight away, confirmed by others using newer 986s for the swap. I am next going to try a tach adapter to see if I can match what the older 986 cluster expects to see for tach signal [addit]



I'll post after giving this a shot. Cheers

There is also some good info here (link below) regarding providing an early 986 cluster with usable speedo & tach signals.



http://914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=240315



I’m in the process of putting an Audi 2.7t into a late 986 (with CAN). On my bench setup with a spare cluster, I’ve got engine coolant temp, speedo, and tach working over CAN... but can’t yet control warning lights (CEL, coolant alarms, low fuel, etc). This info is out there for 987/997, but I can’t find anything that works for 986/996. Does anyone have info on controlling the various warning lamps via CAN on the 986/996 cluster?



Also, here’s a pic to keep the thread interesting. For anyone familiar with Audi 2.7t, this should raise some eyebrows.

[1thenaton1]

Thanks Strombomb for that link. I'd actually also stumbled on that page and think it explains why my recent attempt at using tach-adapt did not bear fruit - The early boxster cluster tach being powered and essentially wanting a pulsed ground signal. I am looking for a tach adapter that will provide that kind of signal modification.

But for now, I drove the car home! A joyous and maybe frightening experience but made it.

As a stop gap I am using Torque app to monitor RPM and coolant temp. It's not a great long term solution so will continue trying to figure out this tach, or maybe add a aftermarket physical gauge.