which ims bearing upgrade

[boxster]

Also,maybe someone can enlighten me regarding my engine. I read somewhere that if you have an x on the engine no,than the engine might have been changed by the factory. My engine number is M96/2065x14718. Does that mean my engine had been changed at one point?

[mikefocke]

Beware, the Pelican book instructions have at least one significant error. Better to use the LN instructions if doing an LN bearing.

BTW, the tools are expensive. Make sure your mechanic understands that in the quote he gives you. There is a ready market for used tool sets too so he can keep them for the next job or sell them on.

[Gelbster]

Whichever bearing is selected as a replacement, it is only as good as the Installer.
Why? - If you study the Installation Instructions for any LN product ,you soon realize how critical the Installer skill level is.It is not that their product is difficult.It is that LN really go to great lengths to ensure the installation is correct and successful.No detail is ignored. The lengthy Instructions are full of imperatives.
Other diy IMSB's may be just as critical but the Installation Instructions are often inadequate.
Probably a good idea to:
1. differentiate between diy and Pro (LN Approved)installed products.
2. find a local qualified installer & discuss.LN have a list.
The Pro Installer route may seem expensive until you understand how easy it is to screw up an IMSB replacement and how expensive the consequences of that mistake(s) are.
Yes, you can be successful with a DIY IMSB ,but it requires a meticulous standard of work that the average shade-tree-mechanic seldom rises to. For example freezing the parts and tools,buying the microencapsulated bolts, loosening the correct crankcase-half bolts, effective counter-stay and valve train locking,surgical cleanliness,correct tools for RMS install ....
Even the "smart guys" screw up :'the Pelican book instructions have at least one significant error'
We discussed this wiith Wayne and he did say they would correct this in their website. It is better, as Mike said to just read one set of Instructions and follow them to the letter. Linked for your convenience here:
http://imsretrofit.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/IMS-Retrofit-Instructions-and-Waranty-Form.pdf

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by Luv2Box

I had the dual row in my '99 Boxster changed in 2012 and it has 32K miles on it. I read up on the bearing before having it installed and what was being advertised, at that time, was a recommended change at 50K miles. The statistics, though, indicated ceramic bearings outlasted steel by a 5:1 ratio. What I've never understood, or found an answer for, is what is the starting point for the ratio of 5:1? If my OEM bearing had 84K miles on it and was still in good shape does that mean 420K miles? If it is 5:1 what do I need to change the LN at 50K? Perhaps someone can explain the reasoning.

One word: Caution. LN goes on their experience with the bearings, not pat ratios.

[boxster]

Originally Posted by mikefocke

Beware, the Pelican book instructions have at least one significant error. Better to use the LN instructions if doing an LN bearing.

BTW, the tools are expensive. Make sure your mechanic understands that in the quote he gives you. There is a ready market for used tool sets too so he can keep them for the next job or sell them on.

I know, I will have to buy the tools in not sure he'd want to buy them off me though! I'll try selling them online then.

[boxster]

Originally Posted by Gelbster

Whichever bearing is selected as a replacement, it is only as good as the Installer.
Why? - If you study the Installation Instructions for any LN product ,you soon realize how critical the Installer skill level is.It is not that their product is difficult.It is that LN really go to great lengths to ensure the installation is correct and successful.No detail is ignored. The lengthy Instructions are full of imperatives.
Other diy IMSB's may be just as critical but the Installation Instructions are often inadequate.
Probably a good idea to:
1. differentiate between diy and Pro (LN Approved)installed products.
2. find a local qualified installer & discuss.LN have a list.
The Pro Installer route may seem expensive until you understand how easy it is to screw up an IMSB replacement and how expensive the consequences of that mistake(s) are.
Yes, you can be successful with a DIY IMSB ,but it requires a meticulous standard of work that the average shade-tree-mechanic seldom rises to. For example freezing the parts and tools,buying the microencapsulated bolts, loosening the correct crankcase-half bolts, effective counter-stay and valve train locking,surgical cleanliness,correct tools for RMS install ....
Even the "smart guys" screw up :'the Pelican book instructions have at least one significant error'
We discussed this wiith Wayne and he did say they would correct this in their website. It is better, as Mike said to just read one set of Instructions and follow them to the letter. Linked for your convenience here:
http://imsretrofit.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/IMS-Retrofit-Instructions-and-Waranty-Form.pdf

Wow, those are really detailed instructions! I must admit I had never seen LN's instructions before,only pelican's.as I said before,thats THE biggest problem o have,the mechanic. Where I live, there are no specialized Porsche mechanics, i would gladly go to one if there was,but to most mechanics here, the ims bearing is alien territory,so i was hoping that my mechanic, who is quite good,but still has no experience with ims bearings,would be able to do the job for me. The last thing i want is for my ims bearing to still be in ok condition,meaning it would have given me many more miles of use, and just because I want peace of mind and go ahead with the retrofit,id have an engine catastrophe just because of incorrect bearing installation. Damn,its times like these i feel jealous of people who have no idea what an ims bearing is!! So, what youre telling me is that because there are so many mistakes a rookie can make during his first ims bearing installation,its not worth doing it at all? Isn't some basic mechanics common sense enough for this job? I really dont know who to turn to in this instance!

[mikefocke]

http://www.renntech.org/forums/topic/39974-engine-identification/

[boxster]

Originally Posted by mikefocke

http://www.renntech.org/forums/topic/39974-engine-identification/

Thanks for the link. I had read something already about the letters AT being rebuilt engines,but I don't have AT, I just have an X as a letter in between the other numbers. Does that also mean a rebuilt engine? I need to know so that ill know which bearing to order. I think I read something about an x being at the end of the vin number,but mine is in the middle, so not sure.

[Luv2Box]

Originally Posted by boxster

Wow, those are really detailed instructions! I must admit I had never seen LN's instructions before,only pelican's.as I said before,thats THE biggest problem o have,the mechanic. Where I live, there are no specialized Porsche mechanics, i would gladly go to one if there was,but to most mechanics here, the ims bearing is alien territory,so i was hoping that my mechanic, who is quite good,but still has no experience with ims bearings,would be able to do the job for me. The last thing i want is for my ims bearing to still be in ok condition,meaning it would have given me many more miles of use, and just because I want peace of mind and go ahead with the retrofit,id have an engine catastrophe just because of incorrect bearing installation. Damn,its times like these i feel jealous of people who have no idea what an ims bearing is!! So, what youre telling me is that because there are so many mistakes a rookie can make during his first ims bearing installation,its not worth doing it at all? Isn't some basic mechanics common sense enough for this job? I really dont know who to turn to in this instance!

The mechanic, who did mine, is an indy shop and it was his first install. I watched the entire installation and made a video for him. At the time he was not an LN approved mechanic but LN didn't have a problem selling him the bearing or the tools. When the bearing and tools arrived, with the instructions, the removal tool was different than the tool in the instructions so he called LN to clarify what should be done. My OEM IMS was returned to LN, as they asked, but they claim they have no record of it and I haven't pursued the matter. Also there was no LN sticker, that indicates the bearing was changed, in the kit. It sounds like LN has refined their system since then but he had worked on my car for a couple of years and I was confident he was a capable mechanic. He is now on the approved LN list and has done many IMS retrofits from LN. With 34K on my LN bearing I'm feeling confident the procedure was done correctly.

[boxster]

Originally Posted by Luv2Box

The mechanic, who did mine, is an indy shop and it was his first install. I watched the entire installation and made a video for him. At the time he was not an LN approved mechanic but LN didn't have a problem selling him the bearing or the tools. When the bearing and tools arrived, with the instructions, the removal tool was different than the tool in the instructions so he called LN to clarify what should be done. My OEM IMS was returned to LN, as they asked, but they claim they have no record of it and I haven't pursued the matter. Also there was no LN sticker, that indicates the bearing was changed, in the kit. It sounds like LN has refined their system since then but he had worked on my car for a couple of years and I was confident he was a capable mechanic. He is now on the approved LN list and has done many IMS retrofits from LN. With 34K on my LN bearing I'm feeling confident the procedure was done correctly.

I'm hoping my mechanic is as capable as yours!! I plan to stay with him and see everything that he's doing when he does the job. Although I'm no expert,I still believe you could tell if the guy knows what he's doing or not. Some mechanics specifically tell you that you wont be allowed to stay in their garage whilst they're working on your car,but I always stay next to him when he's doing a big job on my cars and he doesn't mind,so I'm hoping that if we both go through the instructions carefully together, the job will be done right, fingers crossed!!

[Smallblock454]

X is the model year = 1999

6 = 6 cylinder
5 = engine type
X = 1999
14718 = counting number

Regards
Markus

[boxster]

Originally Posted by Smallblock454

X is the model year = 1999

6 = 6 cylinder
5 = engine type
X = 1999
14718 = counting number

Regards
Markus

Oh ok, thats good to know. So I should have the double row bearing then

[RandallNeighbour]

Pedro Bonilla just posted a very good video on youtube concerning the IMS and the bearing options for replacements. Because I'm at work I can't paste the link in for the youtube video (youtube is blocked here) but search for it and you'll certainly find it.

It was a fascinating explanation of how oil finds its way into the hollow intermediate shaft chamber and how it becomes acidic over time and seeps into the bearing and washes away the grease causing premature bearing failure. He said they only see 1.5 out of 10 motors with old oil in the hollow part of the shaft, btw.

His final thought was the only way to battle the IMS bearing having its grease washed out of the sealed bearing would be the direct oil feed solution.

[Gelbster]

The only slight issue I have with Pedro's kit is :
1. he doesn't boldly state specifically how insignificant(in terms of the total oil system) the DOF oil requirement is. Volumetrically the DOF requires very little.

2. the generic bearing supplied in his kit is from Argentina.At least it is not China. A Timken/FAG/SKF from a better source would have been reassuring.But you can supply your own very inexpensively.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzUq2DFpeKw

[boxster]

What baffles me is that he states that the steel bearings work better with the DOF than the ceramic ones. On the other hand, LN claim that their bearings are specifically designed to work in high temperatures with very little oil required to lube the bearings. There's also eternal fix's system where it pumps oil through the ims shaft. I don't know, I really need to make my mind up about which route to take but I think I'm leaning towards LN's system, without additional oil feeds

[newBgeek]

Here is the link RandallNeighbour was referring to. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1QJnXKdKho

Very interesting insight into how the problems start.

[Jake Raby]

The video thats referenced, begs for a rebuttal.

[boxster]

Originally Posted by Jake Raby

The video thats referenced, begs for a rebuttal.

Please elaborate!! I need to be educated about these bearings and want to make the right decision!

[Smallblock454]

Originally Posted by Gelbster

The only slight issue I have with Pedro's kit is :
1. he doesn't boldly state specifically how insignificant(in terms of the total oil system) the DOF oil requirement is. Volumetrically the DOF requires very little.

2. the generic bearing supplied in his kit is from Argentina.At least it is not China. A Timken/FAG/SKF from a better source would have been reassuring.But you can supply your own very inexpensively.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzUq2DFpeKw

Wow, did i get it right? Ceramic rollers in bearings won't work, baacuse the rollers are too hard. Well, maybe he shouldn't use that cheap chinese stuff.

Did anybody think about to seal the tube volume directly behind the roller bearing? For example glue in a aluminium peace with the same diameter the inner tube has. If there is no underpressure, no oil will be sucked in.

Or you park your car always at a hill with the nose down. So the oil level is below the bearing.

Regards
Markus

[RandallNeighbour]

I'm doubting you can find a glue that can withstand the kind of heat a motor creates and not melt and contaminate the oil.

If you ask me, the IMS designer should have put a pin hole at the other end of the IMS shaft to allow for pressure equalization.