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Old 10-21-2014, 05:41 AM   #1
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Many IMS "Solutions" showing up.

Just wondering if any of you have any experience with the roller bearing offering from Europe as an IMS replacement? Seems like every day a new 'solution' (not to be confused with the LNE "Solution" being offered). Direct oil feed, roller bearing etc. with varying prices and I suppose varying success.

I am going with a double row ceramic replacement for my '02 TIP 2.7 with single row. Also will have the spin on filter installed along with AOS replacement. Sump will be dropped and checked for debris etc. This should give me peace of mind for the near future. My mechanic has just attended a LNE class and came back with a lot of info. he didn't have prior. He also bought the new tool to facilitate the changing of the bearing. Will have this done in the next few weeks when he has a slot. Will let you know the outcome. Going to cost me a bundle but what price peace of mind? Just wish the warranty was a bit longer.

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Old 10-21-2014, 07:24 AM   #2
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Just stick with LNE products when it comes to the IMS. Everyone and everything else does not have the track record LNE has.
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Old 10-21-2014, 08:59 AM   #3
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*shrug*

One doesn't buy a Porsche and then complain about how much maintenance costs

After 1.5 years I'm at about $3500 for maintenance and minor repairs.
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Old 10-21-2014, 09:42 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by desert_porsche View Post
*shrug*

One doesn't buy a Porsche and then complain about how much maintenance costs

After 1.5 years I'm at about $3500 for maintenance and minor repairs.
Some do complain, some don't. I don't consider IMS replacement as 'maintenance' but rather protecting my investment from poor engineering and corporate policy for not owning up and fixing the problem. Just my opinion, yours may differ.

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Old 10-21-2014, 09:55 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by Allen K. Littlefield View Post
Some do complain, some don't. I don't consider IMS replacement as 'maintenance' but rather protecting my investment from poor engineering and corporate policy for not owning up and fixing the problem. Just my opinion, yours may differ.

AKL
Investment? Eek!

Sorry, I'm a banker - always shudder when someone calls a car an 'investment'. I guess it's an investment of time and money and the return is a lot of fun...but still....eek!
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Old 10-21-2014, 12:01 PM   #6
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Someone once told me don't put serious money into a depreciating asset. And Boxsters sure do depreciate. (Maybe that is why both mine were used. And even then they depreciated 50% over 5 years.)

They are toys. If you want to put in an IMS kit to reduce your anxiety and thus increase your fun it is your choice.

If I were to be making the choice, I'd choose the best installer and the kit that has the most experience. The labor will outweigh the kit cost.

(My Boxsters cost me less in maintenance costs than a comparable mileage/era Honda and Acura.)
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Old 10-21-2014, 01:19 PM   #7
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Investment? Eek!

Sorry, I'm a banker - always shudder when someone calls a car an 'investment'. I guess it's an investment of time and money and the return is a lot of fun...but still....eek!
Tell that to the guy that bought a ferarri in 1967 for 4k and sold it for 5mm...lol!
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Old 10-21-2014, 04:29 PM   #8
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Just wondering if any of you have any experience with the roller bearing offering from Europe as an IMS replacement?
Its interesting when the knock off products are being copied! That makes them a knockoff, of a knockoff.

People wonder why we take the time, and spend the money to Patent protect and trademark our genuine items. This is a classic example.

The funny part is, I remember being told that it was impossible to retrofit an IMS Bearing, and when I first released my procedure and the associated genuine parts, people still didn't believe it.... For 2-3 years!
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Last edited by Jake Raby; 10-21-2014 at 04:31 PM.
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Old 10-21-2014, 04:44 PM   #9
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Tell that to the guy that bought a ferarri in 1967 for 4k and sold it for 5mm...lol!
I somehow doubt our 2000 era Boxsters will bring that sort of return, although willing to cross my fingers.
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Old 10-21-2014, 08:17 PM   #10
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I somehow doubt our 2000 era Boxsters will bring that sort of return, although willing to cross my fingers.
sure they will, in 2114
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Old 10-22-2014, 09:40 AM   #11
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What blows me away is how long people kept messing around with ball or roller bearings on the IMS instead of replacing with a proper oiled journal bearing like it should been from the beginning. The first time I saw an M96 in pieces I was AMAZED that they put a sealed ball bearing in a modern engine. What the F!? I can picture a design review of the M96 engine at Porsche. (Cue dream sequence.) There are a bunch of engineers, accountants and management sitting around a big table when a young engineer claims he can solve the IMS oiling issues and save $10/engine by fitting a roller bearing instead of having to do the machining to get an oil feed gallery to the bearing. The bearing company says it will work with data to back it up, the bean counters loved it, and the old, experienced engineers protested saying it wouldn't work (but had no data to support their claim - yet) and eventually walked out of the meeting. Management says it is a no brainer. Do it! The young engineer was a hero! For about six months...

Porsche really has a lot of German engineering stubbornness (some would say arrogance) in taking ideas that were flawed to begin with and making them work or quietly making them go away, especially in regards to their engines. You would think they would learn, but they keep making the same mistakes. Witness the new GT3 engines.

Anyway, back to IMS bearings. I think the only real "solution" is that proper oil-fed journal bearing that has (finally) been released by LN. The next amazing part to me is that people pay $1800 (plus installation!) for it. It is a great way to make money - for awhile anyway. Heck, I would patent that as well!
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Old 10-22-2014, 04:34 PM   #12
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Anyway, back to IMS bearings. I think the only real "solution" is that proper oil-fed journal bearing that has (finally) been released by LN. The next amazing part to me is that people pay $1800 (plus installation!) for it. It is a great way to make money - for awhile anyway. Heck, I would patent that as well!
The IMS Solution is my invention. It was the very first IMS Retrofit component that was invented, and originally I developed this only for my turn key engines. I had no intentions of the units being sold for individual sale in the beginning. The units were first used in my engines, and for a good while we were the only installers of the product.

When we got some intel proving that some others were about to begin offering components, other than LN, I decided to crush their game and I teamed up with LN to offer the IMS Solution to the masses. It hit the market one month before the other band wagon guys released their new product, and right out of the blue- ambush style, just the way Marines prefer to attack. Mission accomplished. I would have loved to see their faces when they saw that first article.

The cost of the IMS Solution is as real as it gets. If you knew what the product took to create, develop and patent, as well as the staggering per piece manufacturing costs, you'd think that 1800.00 isn't even enough for a retail price. The components use exceptionally expensive materials, all surfaces must be ground, and the DLC coating alone costs more than most other IMS related products cost at retail. The IMS Solution and all of its components are made in USA 100%.

The good news is that we can barely keep up with the demand from distributors due to the insane lead time that is required to produce the IMS Solution from A-Z. Costs doesn't seem to matter, people that appreciate closure on a problem, with a simplified component that removes 11 wear parts entirely from the engine are standing in line to have theirs fitted. Most reach out to our Certified Installers and take advantage of the people who have been trained and evaluated by us to do the job as intended.

There's only one IMS Retrofit, and there's only one IMS Solution, both names have been trademarked- otherwise they'll be ripped off, just like everything else we've done over the last decade.
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Old 10-22-2014, 04:54 PM   #13
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I managed a patent application as the lead (although I didn't design the product) and the application took every bit of 2 years from first submission to our lawyers to final approval. I think we spent probably $100k in lawyer fees even though all the technical product description writing and some of the legal arguments were authored by in-house staff. I'd guess probably $50k of our time and all these costs were in 7 years ago dollars.

As a former product manager of a relatively low volume product, I have an appreciation for the overheads that have to be built into pricing. Production is probably the least of the expenses, or was in our case. Things like marketing, documentation, support and warranty were easily more in a given year than component cost.
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Old 10-22-2014, 04:57 PM   #14
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What 11 parts are taken out of danger?

The bearing itself...sure. But what else?
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Old 10-22-2014, 05:52 PM   #15
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I have 3 patents pending at the present, one of them is 20 months in, the other two are 13 and 16 months. I have yet to release one of the products thats covered by the newest patent, plan on doing that in January 15.

There's a big difference in the cost between a provisional patent, and the full patent application. Thus far we have had 3 office actions in the most mature application and it should be granted without any more clarifications with the examiner in 12-14 more months. The average so far has been from the final filing to the patent being issued a 33 month turnaround time, which seems to be fairly average.

The biggest ******************** for me has been covering every base and playing the strategic games of thinking of every single unique part of the "art" and how someone could crack it. On the IMS Solution I worked on that aspect of it every day for 3 solid months, then once the Patent Attorney got it in his hands it took two more weeks in the office to cover every base of not just the component, but also the method if installation and the method of oil delivery, all of which are a part of the patent. Thats on top of the 3,000 page Patent Search that cost us a ton of money to have carried out, but thats the most important part, as it finds possible conflicts with other types of art that may exist, but not be known about. We even had a conflict with a part used for a mowing deck with one of the applications, which had nothing to do with our component, but we had to answer the office action with the explanation. Its a real pain in the ass.

Meanwhile, some people maintain "patent pending" in their ads although their provisional patent was never turned into a full patent application, which is illegal. They don't care, they have no reputations in the industry and have nothing to lose, they wait till they get in trouble and close the business to save their asses. By doing this, they literally have nothing to lose, just run a bigger ad next time and find some new, fresher meat to market things to.

All these things are the cost of doing business, and the more we have to fight the other people the more things cost for everyone. We take this stuff seriously, having more power is why LN and I team up to create a power house that it takes a dumbass to try to fight.

They haven't seen anything yet. My latest engine and another little secret weapon that gets launched in early 2015 will really shake things up. Again.

Enough rambling. Back to the shop, my night just got started and the dyno is already warmed up.
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US Patent 8,992,089 &
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Developer of The IMS Retrofit Procedure- M96/ M97 Specialist

Last edited by Jake Raby; 10-22-2014 at 06:02 PM.
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Old 10-22-2014, 06:07 PM   #16
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Just stick with LNE products when it comes to the IMS. Everyone and everything else does not have the track record LNE has.
As I said.
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Old 10-23-2014, 08:13 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by Jake Raby View Post
I have 3 patents pending at the present, one of them is 20 months in, the other two are 13 and 16 months. I have yet to release one of the products thats covered by the newest patent, plan on doing that in January 15.

There's a big difference in the cost between a provisional patent, and the full patent application. Thus far we have had 3 office actions in the most mature application and it should be granted without any more clarifications with the examiner in 12-14 more months. The average so far has been from the final filing to the patent being issued a 33 month turnaround time, which seems to be fairly average.

The biggest ******************** for me has been covering every base and playing the strategic games of thinking of every single unique part of the "art" and how someone could crack it. On the IMS Solution I worked on that aspect of it every day for 3 solid months, then once the Patent Attorney got it in his hands it took two more weeks in the office to cover every base of not just the component, but also the method if installation and the method of oil delivery, all of which are a part of the patent. Thats on top of the 3,000 page Patent Search that cost us a ton of money to have carried out, but thats the most important part, as it finds possible conflicts with other types of art that may exist, but not be known about. We even had a conflict with a part used for a mowing deck with one of the applications, which had nothing to do with our component, but we had to answer the office action with the explanation. Its a real pain in the ass.

Meanwhile, some people maintain "patent pending" in their ads although their provisional patent was never turned into a full patent application, which is illegal. They don't care, they have no reputations in the industry and have nothing to lose, they wait till they get in trouble and close the business to save their asses. By doing this, they literally have nothing to lose, just run a bigger ad next time and find some new, fresher meat to market things to.

All these things are the cost of doing business, and the more we have to fight the other people the more things cost for everyone. We take this stuff seriously, having more power is why LN and I team up to create a power house that it takes a dumbass to try to fight.

They haven't seen anything yet. My latest engine and another little secret weapon that gets launched in early 2015 will really shake things up. Again.

Enough rambling. Back to the shop, my night just got started and the dyno is already warmed up.
Hmmm. Now I wonder if I should wait until late Jan. '15 to see what else is on? Since the tranny will be dropped for the bearing replacement I wonder if it would be a good time to add anything new from Raby????

As far as the "investment" argument goes I do not expect to sell the car for more than I paid for it someday but investing in my peace of mind to more enjoy the car so you banker types out there can stop shuddering... I find the earlier body style of the 986 to be very pleasing to me and is most reminiscent of the 550 and RSK Porsches. I plan on keeping the car for a long while.
AKL
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Old 10-23-2014, 09:47 AM   #18
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snip
I can picture a design review of the M96 engine at Porsche. (Cue dream sequence.) There are a bunch of engineers, accountants and management sitting around a big table when a young engineer claims he can solve the IMS oiling issues and save $10/engine by fitting a roller bearing instead of having to do the machining to get an oil feed gallery to the bearing. The bearing company says it will work with data to back it up, the bean counters loved it, and the old, experienced engineers protested saying it wouldn't work (but had no data to support their claim - yet) and eventually walked out of the meeting. Management says it is a no brainer. Do it! The young engineer was a hero! For about six months...
I'm often amused when people blame the engineers for poor decisions.

I work for a company that produces products of complexity that make anything Porsche has produced seem like a chinese tricycle. I can assure you that all such poor decision are made by upper management, and that an eager young engineer would be told to sit down and STFU until spoken to (or promoted to manager )

Everything I design has to "buy its way" on to the vehicle, and even then a positive business cases are often shelved.
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Old 10-23-2014, 11:02 AM   #19
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I work for a company that produces products of complexity that make anything Porsche has produced seem like a chinese tricycle.
Hmm let me guess... Boeing..?
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Old 10-23-2014, 11:13 AM   #20
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... products of complexity that make anything Porsche has produced seem like a chinese tricycle.
My mental inventory of Chinese tricycles was deficient, so I had to use Google. Here's my favorite for the illustration:

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