Go Back   986 Forum - for Porsche Boxster & Cayman Owners > Porsche Boxster & Cayman Forums > Performance and Technical chat

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-13-2014, 09:30 AM   #1
Rennzenn
 
j.fro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Virginia
Posts: 1,355
Garage
IMS show-n-tell

I pulled the IMS from my 996 (1999 C4) and thought I'd let everyone have a look. The dual row bearing spins smoothly and has zero play. The shaft it rides on looks good, too. The cover has a rough edge inside, but that surface does not contact anything. Strangely, the cover has no markings. Most that I've seen photos for had "Germany" or a part number on them. The rubber o-ring is flattened and definitely shot, which I'm sure contributed to the leak I found. I've got the LNE kit to replace the bearing.
So, jury of my peers, what are your thoughts on this...
Did I just spend $$ to replace a good part?
Did I just save my engine?
Does the personal learning experience alone justify the similar-to-3-credit-hours cost?

LNE wants the old bearing in order for the warranty...I really wanna pop the seal and have a look inside. What would Jesus do?





j.fro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2014, 09:44 AM   #2
Registered User
 
Dlirium's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 583
Garage
Dude! That thing is SHOT!!

or, maybe not...

:-)
__________________
2000 S - Borla Exhaust, TS Cat Deletes, RSS UDP, B&M Short Shift, T96 Steering Wheel, Potenza RE-71R's,
Mantis 2.0L Deep Sump, de-snorkeled, Bilstein PSS9 Coil-Overs, Rennline lug studs, and auto crossed regularly
.
Dlirium is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2014, 12:25 PM   #3
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: weehawken nj
Posts: 240
LNE wants the bearing? For what, warranty? That is not an LNE bearing, its original.

Pop the seal off and have a look. Also, theres another recent thread where the bearing was cut open and all the deep grooves in the bearing race were visible. Check it out.
Bigsmoothlee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2014, 12:27 PM   #4
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: weehawken nj
Posts: 240
heres the link

Autopsy of a "good" IMS bearing
Bigsmoothlee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2014, 12:36 PM   #5
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Miami florida
Posts: 1,591
Cut it open so you can see the bearing surfaces and the balls, then you will know the condition. And please post pictures. Then send the bearing to LNE if they really want it. Makes sense to do so, because they analyze the bearings and use the data to come up with failure analysis trends. It would be nice if LNE shared the data with us.
__________________
Current car

2000 Boxster 2.7l red/black

Previous cars

1973 Opel Manta
1969(?) Fiat 850 Convertible
1979 Lancia Beta Coupe
1981 Alfa Romeo GTV 6
1985 Alfa Romeo Graduate
1985 Porsche 944
1989 Porsche 944
1981 Triumph TR7
1989 (?) Alfa Romeo Milano
1993 Saab 9000
san rensho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2014, 01:33 PM   #6
Registered User
 
Steve Tinker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Queensland, Australia
Posts: 1,522
The "rough edge" on the bearing inner cover in picture #1 is interesting - looks like the steel has been acid etched.
Was this section of the cover positioned at the bottom - I seem to recall the the lower edge of the IMS is immersed in oil when the engine is stationary, so if the bearing was sitting in old, acidic oil for long periods, etching could occur.
It would be interesting to see if the bearing races were in a similar condition, but that would mean cutting it open to inspect .....
__________________
2001 Boxster S (triple black). Sleeping easier with LN Engineering/Flat 6 IMS upgrade, low temp thermostat & underspeed pulley.
2001 MV Agusta F4.
Steve Tinker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2014, 02:06 PM   #7
Beginner
 
Jamesp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Houston
Posts: 1,659
Garage
A Dremel tool with a cutting disk works nicely Now on the down side if you want an LNE bearing, and your old bearing intact is part of the trade, you have a decision to make. Additionally the bearing carrier you took out of the case is the old style which tended to leak, the new style has a different seal. I think the new one is about $150. And don't tell anybody, but I ran a bead of 5900 case sealant around the outboard edge of the seal before I installed mine as a little "belt and suspenders" for a seal area renowned for leaking. I wonder if that would work with your old style bearing carrier? It is important where the sealant goes. It has to be on the outboard surface of the piece you are installing so none of the sealant gets pushed into the case when you push the piece back in. Additionally any surface you apply sealant to has to be completely clean. No old sealant, no water, no oil. I favor brake cleaner followed up with acetone. In fact, I've got to get my hiney back out to the garage and install my oil pan and new O2 sensor (Thanks Pelican Parts! Great price on this part!)
__________________
2003 S manual
Jamesp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2014, 04:21 PM   #8
Beginner
 
Jamesp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Houston
Posts: 1,659
Garage
Just back from a top down ride through the neighborhood to make sure the oil pan would stay on.
__________________
2003 S manual
Jamesp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2014, 05:06 PM   #9
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Arizona
Posts: 90
You can take the seal off, take a look, then snap it back in place.
I use a very small screw driver, like those sold for eye glasses. Carefully pry the seal off from the outside edge, the edge at the outer race.
You can then just snap it back into place.

The rough area on the flange seal looks like a casting flaw to me. It is a cast piece. Doesn't look like it would be a problem to me.
__________________
It's all bad
Walter White is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2014, 06:22 PM   #10
Engine Surgeon
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Cleveland GA USA
Posts: 2,424
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigsmoothlee View Post
LNE wants the bearing? For what, warranty? That is not an LNE bearing, its original.

Pop the seal off and have a look. Also, theres another recent thread where the bearing was cut open and all the deep grooves in the bearing race were visible. Check it out.
To ensure that the engine was not quipped with a failing IMSB at the time of retrofit, sending in the OEM bearing is a requirement to complete warranty registration. Its been that way since day one.


You can't judge a used bearing by its cover, unless its cut open and measured, you can't judge it's health- period.

Oh, and by the way, that bearing was running VERY loosely n the housing. I can tell by all the fretting on the OD.
__________________
Jake Raby/www.flat6innovations.com
IMS Solution/ Faultless Tool Inventor
US Patent 8,992,089 &
US Patent 9,416,697
Developer of The IMS Retrofit Procedure- M96/ M97 Specialist
Jake Raby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2014, 04:54 AM   #11
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Southern New jersey
Posts: 1,054
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Tinker View Post
The "rough edge" on the bearing inner cover in picture #1 is interesting - looks like the steel has been acid etched.
Was this section of the cover positioned at the bottom - I seem to recall the the lower edge of the IMS is immersed in oil when the engine is stationary, so if the bearing was sitting in old, acidic oil for long periods, etching could occur.
It would be interesting to see if the bearing races were in a similar condition, but that would mean cutting it open to inspect .....
That rough spot is just the raw casting, a low spot that wasn't touched by the machining operations.
stephen wilson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2014, 12:04 AM   #12
Registered User
 
Steve Tinker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Queensland, Australia
Posts: 1,522
That will be a relief to the owner, though I have seen steel surfaces that have been etched by acidic oils before. Isn't a good sign if it happens to be a bearing surface.....
__________________
2001 Boxster S (triple black). Sleeping easier with LN Engineering/Flat 6 IMS upgrade, low temp thermostat & underspeed pulley.
2001 MV Agusta F4.
Steve Tinker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2014, 07:31 AM   #13
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Arizona
Posts: 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamesp View Post
I ran a bead of 5900 case sealant around the outboard edge of the seal before I installed mine as a little "belt and suspenders" for a seal area renowned for leaking.
It may be a good thing you did. That Nachi seal has a small notch molded into the outer sealing area for ventilation.
__________________
It's all bad
Walter White is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2014, 09:02 AM   #14
Beginner
 
Jamesp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Houston
Posts: 1,659
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Walter White View Post
It may be a good thing you did. That Nachi seal has a small notch molded into the outer sealing area for ventilation.
Do you have a picture? The NSE is a full seal.
__________________
2003 S manual
Jamesp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2014, 07:14 AM   #15
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Arizona
Posts: 90
I looked but I could not find a seal I have not destroyed. I will get a pic next time I have one I will get a pic.
I think I saw two notches on the outboard side of the seal at the perimeter.
I thought they were just part of the molding process and not intended for anything. Then I saw the details on this page, near the bottom

6204-2NSE Nachi Bearing 20x47x14 Sealed C3 Japan Ball Bearings:Nachi-Bearings

"Breathing mechanism (on seal OD)".
__________________
It's all bad
Walter White is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2014, 02:51 PM   #16
Rennzenn
 
j.fro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Virginia
Posts: 1,355
Garage
Mission accomplished!!!

I have earned my IMS merit badge! Got the car together yesterday, but needed 3 litres of Delvac 75W-90 to fill the trans. Filled up the trans and got it running this evening. Since I had to pull the chain tensioners, there was some racket on start-up, but that quieted down right away and the car runs smooth. I replaced the clutch with a Sachs unit. The clutch pedal is nice and light, and with the new trans oil and new engine mounts, shifting is like butter. A while back we had an Infinit G35 6MT coupe, and now my 996 shifts as well as that car did.
All in, replaced :
the clutch, pressure plate, and throw out bearing
IMS with LNE dual row IMS kit
Rms with Pelican PTFE RMS
Engine mounts with new stock units
Flushed clutch with Ate gold
__________________
Rennzenn
Jfro@rennzenn.com
j.fro is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -8. The time now is 07:54 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2018 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page