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Old 09-21-2013, 03:41 AM   #1
pjq
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Engine break in 1st stage oil results

I just put 385 miles on my rebuilt engine (04 S) using Joe Gibbs BR 30 oil. I've drained the oil and am getting ready to move to stage 2 of engine break in with new oil. Below are the pic's of of stage 1 oil and filter any concerns?

1st pic is what my magnetic drain plug is suppose to look like.
2nd pic is what my magnetic drain plug DOES look like. It feels like a graphite grease with extra fine aggregate in it. It is metalic.
3rd pic is the results of swiping the drain plug on my finger 3 times.
4th pic is oil filter opened up.
5th pic is a section of oil filter. they are very small metalic pieces, long black stringy pieces are flexible, probably pieces of sealant goop, they are not round like an O ring.

The 2 oil samples are in clear bottles they look good. Only when I shine a flashlight on the under side of the oil sample bottle, that came from the filter cannister, can i see a very fine glitter of metal particles (just on the base of the bottle). The main sample bottle looks fine. Camera battery, died no photos of oil samples right now.

What do you think, move to stage 2?









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Old 09-21-2013, 04:32 AM   #2
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The drain plug wear materials are not normal in my experience. Its 3-4 times more than we see after 500 miles, even with dyno time on the BR30 oil.

Were cams, lifters and timing chains swapped? These are the source for most wear metals with these characteristics. What did you use for assembly lube?
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Last edited by Jake Raby; 09-21-2013 at 11:27 AM.
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Old 09-21-2013, 08:33 AM   #3
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Hi Jake,
Cams and Lifters are original with approx 42,000 miles all chains and bearings are new, all chain guides new, LN triple row bearing, LN billet tensioner.
Assembly lube ?? I'm not sure what brand was used, i didn't do the assembly. If it makes a difference I kinda think it was a red colored lube but I could find out for sure on monday.
What about the filter does that look ok?
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Old 09-21-2013, 08:49 AM   #4
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The sample on the left with the lesser amount is from the filter canister, the one on the right, almost full, is from the sump at the initial draining.
When i look at these pics it looks alittle cloudy but in real life I can't see that.





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Old 09-21-2013, 11:26 AM   #5
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I see way too much glitter in that oil... Pull the sump and see what you find.
Did this engine lose an IMS Bearing prior to the rebuild? What failed? Why did it come apart?
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Old 09-21-2013, 12:58 PM   #6
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I'll remove the sump tomorrow.
Yes the IMS bearing failed. I sent the IMS to LN engineering and they were able to install the triple row bearing and pin the shaft.
When the shaft failed I had just come off the Interstate and stopped and the stalled. When I restarted the car she fired right up but it was the death rattle. I drove the car 600ft, to move it out off the way, then called a tow truck.
A near by Porsche indy shop diagnosed it has failed IMS bearing as well as the near by Porsche dealer.
I brought the car home, dismantled it myself then took the block to a reputable engine rebuilder who never worked on a Porsche before. They mainly work on race car engines.
When he took the engine apart we found the only other damage besides IMS bearing was one journal bearing had turned. After cleaning and measurements it was determined the journal and saddle would be ok.
They took their time reassembling the block, ARP crank and rod bolts were used to replace factory.
After the rebuilders finished with the engine I put the ancillaries on and installed it into the car.
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Old 09-21-2013, 01:53 PM   #7
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Were the cylinder heads, block and other components cleaned ultrasonically after the failure while disassembled? This method is the only method proven effective in removing wear metals from inside the capillaries and passages within the block, heads, camshafts and other confines.

Keep in mind that this material is being delivered into your new triple row bearing and that 1% of debris contamination increases wear by 83%. Residual foreign object debris stemming from prior failures is a key problem with the repair of these engines.

Call your builder, they built it, they should answer your questions and perhaps this is normal wear debris from one of their engines. If they've never worked with an M96 before, then they probably won't have any comparatives.

Just because they build "race engines" doesn't mean they understand the dynamics associated with the M96 engine specifically. The M96 has its own idiosyncrasies and its hard to work with these engines internally if you don't know them passionately.

Which "journal had turned"?? That could be an interesting dynamic.
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Last edited by Jake Raby; 09-21-2013 at 01:58 PM.
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Old 09-21-2013, 04:25 PM   #8
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Thanks Jake,
I'll be talking to the builders on monday.
I know they have an ultrasonic washer I don't know if they used for my engine parts??
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Old 09-21-2013, 07:41 PM   #9
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The wear metals seem really high to me, but pics are only so effective when judging these things.
I hope its ok!
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Old 09-22-2013, 02:28 AM   #10
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removed the sump this morning.
First impression was it looked clean. There are a few small bits of sealant goop but appeared to be nothing else.
Just to make sure, I took the magnetic drain plug and dragged it over the entire surface of the pan and the macro pic of the drain plug is the result.
Considering this is the 1st stage oil change in a rebuilt I would have thought there should be some bits?
When I looked up into the engine cavity it look clean. Pick up strainer had a small piece of sealant goop but that was it.



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Old 09-22-2013, 08:02 AM   #11
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Sump looks better than I expected. The material on the magnet is concerning, just because of the size and shape.
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Developer of The IMS Retrofit Procedure- M96/ M97 Specialist
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Old 09-22-2013, 08:24 AM   #12
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Thanks for your help Jake.
Just want to point out the magnetic plug pics are macro so the camera lens is only about 2-3 inches away from the plug.
Also the bearing that turned, was on the main crank shaft, it was the end bearing in the bearing case just before the crank pulley (opposite end to flywheel). I hope this is a clear enough discription.
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Old 09-22-2013, 08:28 AM   #13
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Jake I just thought, do you use a magnetic drain plug in all your rebuilds at this early stage?
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Old 09-23-2013, 04:38 AM   #14
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Out of curiosity, last night I put a string around the magnetic plug and lowered it into my oil sample, wondering if there may be suspended metals in the sample. After 30 min. when I pulled out the magnetic plug it was clean. So those extra fine paste like fillings on my drain plug in earlier pic are not small enough to be in suspension.

Last edited by pjq; 09-23-2013 at 04:49 AM.
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Old 09-23-2013, 06:11 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pjq View Post
Jake I just thought, do you use a magnetic drain plug in all your rebuilds at this early stage?
Absolutely, the mag drain plug development was a result of the demand of my engine program. I will post a 500 mile/ 50 dyno run mag drain plug pic from a Raby engine later.
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US Patent 8,992,089 &
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Developer of The IMS Retrofit Procedure- M96/ M97 Specialist
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Old 09-23-2013, 08:22 AM   #16
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The assembly lube was a red assembly lube and since new ARP bolts went in the ARP lubricant was used, a black lubricant.
At this stage the rebuilders were not to concerned with the results so as soon as I get my new magnetic drain plug I'll put another 500 - 600 miles on the new oil and then do another oil change.
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Old 09-23-2013, 02:47 PM   #17
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Do a used oil analysis to see if you really have elevated levels of iron, do it for each oil change so you can see if there's a trend. If the levels are going down, that's good. If they are going up, well....
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Old 09-23-2013, 02:58 PM   #18
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san rensho, ok thats sounds good now I'll just have to find a local lab to carry out the testing.
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