My Mind is Numb over IMS

[Pastor T]

Awesome key chain Johnny. Gota Love it.

[jb92563]

Originally Posted by 1olddude

It's not just Porsche that hides and denies common design problems. My Jeep Wrangler just surprised me with the dreaded "death wobble". It is a known problem with Jeep and dodge trucks but they deny it and won't compensate those who experience it. Vehicles with coil springs and straight axles are susceptible to it. It is actually very dangerous and scary when it happens. Usually it is a result of track bar bushings going bad, but it is tough to diagnose sometimes. Look around on the Internet and you find out just how common it is. Just spent $300 getting a new track bar, steering damper, wheel balance, and alignment. Throw Jeep in the same pile as some of these other car manufacturers. It's all about the $, and it will never change regardless of how many class action cases are filed. It is a crapshoot every time you get in a vehicle with known catastrophic problems that may occur at any time. I drive my Boxster and don't worry anymore. Yes it could self destruct but I will cross that bridge when I get there.

My 1999 Wrangler had the "death wobble" so I replaced the steering damper, it improved then I removed the front wheel drive shaft and the problem is gone. It was a worm u-joint in the front drive shaft. Easy to fix for under $80.

[Perfectlap]

I'm surprised that your indy recommended against changing the bearing. First of all having a sealed bearing inside of the engine is a flawed idea from the start. With this approach, the bearing becomes dependent on proper maintenance and driving habits.

If the previous owner was not good about getting the oil changed regularly (at least twice a year imho, or every 4K miles) and did not use a quality oil if these intervals were exceeded (some Porsche experts disagree that Mobil 1 was suitable for long intevals), and the driver did not keep the revs up regularly during drives (at least 3K RPM once the oil is up to temp after about 7-10 mins driving, or twice the coolant time) and did a lot of short shifting at low revs to save gas or to "go easy" on the engine, then the bearing was not operating under optimal coniditions. If that situation goes on for a long time the bearing will need to be changed sooner than later.

And simple logic will tell you that a sealed bearing will not last indefinitely, even if properly maintained. If your taking down the transmission, something you may only do once or twice during the the life of the engine, you should replace the IMS even if you don't opt to replace with upgraded ceramic bearings. Keeping the OEM metallic bearings in for too long opens up the possibility of contamination from bearing degradation. If the maintenance practices of the previous owner were at all a question mark to you as the new owner then there's no logical reason to keep the original bearing in place. Looking back now many believe that the factory/service depts were recommending intervals that were far too long and oils that did not offer enough protection for these intervals, neither did they advise their customers to keep the car from sitting for too long, refrain from using the car only on short trips or driving the car too gingerly as far the rev counter is concerned.

[01SBox]

My 2002 S had two IMS failures in under 50K...One of my work buddies had a 2.7 that had an IMS failure at 30k. My neighbor had a 2000 with an IMS failure (don't recall the mileage).

When I got my 2001 S, I didn't even think twice about it - I just got it done. Spending 3k was a lot cheaper than spending 16k.

Many people here feel that the ims failure is overhyped. When I went to Jake Raby's shop in Georgia a few years ago, I was stunned at the dead engines with IMS failures he had collecting dust.

I would personally never own a 986 without the IMS upgrade.

Originally Posted by Pastor T

I am the 3rd owner of a 2000 Boxster, 2.7, 98k on car, 1st owner had engine replaced at 40k by Porsche due to "internal engine failure". "Reconditioned" engine installed. (engine # M962265Y15482) Do the math; 58k on the engine. The dealer cannot give me much more info than I have on the invoice due to it being in September 2003. From these dates and engine number can anyone tell me what kind of IMS I have. (Single, double, upgraded or what). As far as I can tell it has the orig clutch, PP, FW and throw out bearing. It is currently in my indy shop for noise related to TO bearing. I am having the C, PP, TO Bearing replaced today. I change my oil every 5k and do a complete inspection of my filter. I have not found a single speck in three changes. Last change I installed a magnetic drain plug. No chips only very fine metallic paste. My indy is NOT recommending changing the IMS since it is not showing any problems. I called Porsche, they said the same thing. I have read everything I can find and my my mind is numb. I am 64 years old, drive very aggressively, try to keep the revs above 3K and love my car. Any advice?

[woodsman]

YES PASTOR T, I was talking about the CERAMIC bearing retro fit. I wish I knew of a shop like your's near me! I'm also impressed with the indy that steered you to another, Porsche experienced , shop. Integrity is worth more everyday.

[mikefocke]

trust, measure and then verify

[Homeboy981]

Originally Posted by 01SBox

My 2002 S had two IMS failures in under 50K...One of my work buddies had a 2.7 that had an IMS failure at 30k. My neighbor had a 2000 with an IMS failure (don't recall the mileage).

When I got my 2001 S, I didn't even think twice about it - I just got it done. Spending 3k was a lot cheaper than spending 16k.

Many people here feel that the ims failure is overhyped. When I went to Jake Raby's shop in Georgia a few years ago, I was stunned at the dead engines with IMS failures he had collecting dust.

I would personally never own a 986 without the IMS upgrade.

I think the failure rate on these engines is HIGHER than is being reported. I too suffered a failure at 68,000 miles on the clock. As of now the cause is not entirely known. Must rip off cam covers, IMS - AND MY WALLET!

Cheap insurance would be to PULL THE OIL PAN when doing a oil change. Why? Because my oil filter only had 1-2 little small bits in it….on the other hand my pan looked like this….


No bits were in the oil uptake screen. No confirmation it is even an IMS yet. I picked up this much "powder-type debris" from the oil pan - even when the oil filter was almost clean!

Here is a shot of the practically clean oil filter in the background and all the fine debris on a paper towel in the foreground….


Even tough I have changed the oil 'religiously'! As they say, "When it is your time to go…"

She has been parked for an another agonizing month AGAIN! There is NO TELLING WHEN THE IMS demon will strike!

NO WARNING in my case either…..so IF you can learn from others - better pull the oil pan!

I am growing weary of Pcar reliability issues….don't you think for a moment that the IMS is the only failure point in these engines.

Those of you who HAVE working engines, good for you! Live well BEFORE YOUR TIME IS UP!

Anyone got a line on another engine besides Porsche to put in there in the $6k range?

[TeamOxford]

Sorry to read of your engine's demise, Homeboy. Hope you can find a suitable solution, rather than ending up with an expensive roller.

The IMS issue is a hot topic indeed; this should cement the notion that the only foolproof way to address it is to install the upgraded bearing.

Costly, yes, but one sleeps better at night knowing that the issue has been resolved. People can write all they want about failure rates, oil types, low temp thermostats, guardians etc., but the fact of the matter is..................it can happen to anyone of us at ANY TIME.

What kills me is that people will argue endlessly against replacement because of cost, but have no qualms about their "mods": plunking down thousands for Carrera wheels, RUF bumpers, and GT3 seats.

Not that there's anything wrong with that................

As always, that's me, and I'm just sayin'..............

TO

[mikefocke]

On the reliability versus time bell curve, someone is going to be on the upslope. Others on the far downslope. It is thus for all wearing parts. And all engines, no matter who make em.

[darkstormvx]

He's right. Cant drive in fear every day. This car is made for fun!!

My 05 box is my daily driver and I'm almost at 150,000 miles. Mostly highway, spirited driving every other day, 10,000 mile oil changes with Redline oil, and always warm up before I pass 4k RPMs. The mechanic when I first bought the car told me to drive it like it should be driven so I do.

So far so good. I plan to address the IMS when my clutch needs replacement. If you're dropping the tranny for anything, just replace the bearing while your there and put yourself at ease.

When you buy the Boxster there's a financial aspect you accept, which is that something expensive might come along so try and set money aside for it. But its all about percentages. Some run into problems and some don't.

Looks like I should check my oil pan next oil change O.O.

[southernstar]

I am so sorry to hear this, homeboy. I thought you had replaced your IMS bearing with a Casper engineering ceramic fairly recently? Regardless, please keep us posted on the cause, if and when it is determined. I too hope that you can find a decent engine at a decent price. I have my finger's crossed, amigo!

Brad

[TeamOxford]

Homeboy, in reading some of your past logs, I see you have already installed the IMS upgrade, so I doubt you had an IMS failure.

Don't know what could have possibly happened to your engine, but I feel your pain.

TO

[Vista glass]

My thinking was. Since I was clutch deep I will go ahead and go ceramic.Whats the worst thing that could happen if I replace versus if I don't replace. The removed bearing appeared to be fine, the new bearing is better. I paid the man, smiled and drove off in a spirited manner. You won't regret dealing with it now.

[mikefocke]

So how much was the problem a Porsche problem and how much was the folks who worked on it? What was their experience level and did they do the install right the first time? (We know thousands of LN installs have been done successfully but we also know of some really botched attempts)

Was the original engine free of debris when the original bearing replacement was done?

Does LN ship their bearing packed with any sort of grease to reduce initial rotation wear until it gets enough oil? Would that explain why the two bearings rotate differently?

What ever happened to the LN bearing? Did you ship it back to them? Or did you sell it to someone?

[southernstar]

Sorry Mike, but which post in this thread are you responding to? Its not uncommon for me to miss something, but I was wondering if this was in the wrong thread....

Regardless, yes there have been problems with LN (and I assume other replacement) IMS bearings caused by an improper installation - although it is my understanding that they typically show up very quickly, generally within a few hundred miles. If they are not seated perfectly flush, the IMS shaft can either bind, or run untrue; not surprisingly, the results of either will be disastrous!

Brad

[Skootnasty]

Originally Posted by mikefocke

So how much was the problem a Porsche problem and how much was the folks who worked on it? What was their experience level and did they do the install right the first time? (We know thousands of LN installs have been done successfully but we also know of some really botched attempts)

Was the original engine free of debris when the original bearing replacement was done?

Does LN ship their bearing packed with any sort of grease to reduce initial rotation wear until it gets enough oil? Would that explain why the two bearings rotate differently?

What ever happened to the LN bearing? Did you ship it back to them? Or did you sell it to someone?

This.... How much of this debris was in the engine before the bearing replacement? When we do a bearing upgrade for a customer we always pull sump plate and filter prior to any disassembly regardless if it is just "while you are in there". If ANYTHING alarming is present we simply inform the customer the money would be better spent opening the engine for a rebuild.

And Mike, he used Casper Labs bearing, although I doubt it was the new bearing's fault for that debris.

Skoot

[stephen wilson]

I agree with Mike. Sorry Homeboy, but you've had lots of "odd" issues, and I'm not convinced it's Porsche's fault. It seems you don't even know if it's the IMS bearing yet.