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Old 06-18-2013, 10:01 AM   #1
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My Mind is Numb over IMS

I am the 3rd owner of a 2000 Boxster, 2.7, 98k on car, 1st owner had engine replaced at 40k by Porsche due to "internal engine failure". "Reconditioned" engine installed. (engine # M962265Y15482) Do the math; 58k on the engine. The dealer cannot give me much more info than I have on the invoice due to it being in September 2003. From these dates and engine number can anyone tell me what kind of IMS I have. (Single, double, upgraded or what). As far as I can tell it has the orig clutch, PP, FW and throw out bearing. It is currently in my indy shop for noise related to TO bearing. I am having the C, PP, TO Bearing replaced today. I change my oil every 5k and do a complete inspection of my filter. I have not found a single speck in three changes. Last change I installed a magnetic drain plug. No chips only very fine metallic paste. My indy is NOT recommending changing the IMS since it is not showing any problems. I called Porsche, they said the same thing. I have read everything I can find and my my mind is numb. I am 64 years old, drive very aggressively, try to keep the revs above 3K and love my car. Any advice?
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Old 06-18-2013, 10:11 AM   #2
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'since you're in there' .... why not? Cheap insurance I say and Porsche nor your mechanic will pay for a new engine if they're wrong!!! By the way , I'm pretty sure the engine you have is a single-row- the worst! (like mine WAS). LONG LIVE CERAMIC!!!YIPEEEE!
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Old 06-18-2013, 10:13 AM   #3
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Thanks Woodsman. That's what I thinking. Did you have a failure?
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Old 06-18-2013, 10:17 AM   #4
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I chose to have mine replaced because I did it want to even have the possibility that I would need to face my wife to tell her I needed a new engine on a car that is in almost perfect condition. I too replaced my oil every 5,000 miles and drove it like a Porsche should be driven, but unfortunately I still did not like the probability of that issue when I can proactively take steps to lessen a catastrophic outcome. I would personally say that if you are replacing all of those parts, dealing with the clutch, it does not hurt to replace the bearing, if it can be removed. It will give you peace of mind.
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Old 06-18-2013, 10:23 AM   #5
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Man, that's the truth. this thing keeps me up at night. Every slight variation in the noises I hear causes my heart to stop beating. Thanks for chiming in.
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Old 06-18-2013, 10:40 AM   #6
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I did not have 'a failure' Pastor T. After owning/driving my car for three months, I decided I love it so much that I pro actively took 'her in'. My clutch was fine, as far as driving was concerned but I'm the worrying type, you know... Unfortunately the Porsche-trained mechanic screwed up royally and bent the valves! ( 'it shouldn't have moved...') and now after only 8000 mi. I've had to redo the clutch as 2 bolts on the pp (and the one for the crank sensor) backed out.
Has the indy done an IMS bearing replacement before??? Is he forgetful, or in too big of a hurry???
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Old 06-18-2013, 11:08 AM   #7
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You need to just settle down and quit worrying so much. This issue has been beaten to death. By all accounts the failure rate for single row IMS is 5% to 10%. Yes you are rolling the dice. You can do one of four things:

1. Just monitor the oil and change oil frequently (I do mine every 3K miles)
2. Same as above, but change out bearing when you finally install a new clutch.
3. Install the IMS Guardian.
3. Go into immediate panic mode and replace the bearing NOW!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 06-18-2013, 12:28 PM   #8
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Because the clutch and flywheel are off, the incremental cost of replacing the bearing is about $650 plus about 1 to 2 hours labor. If the indie hasn't replaced one before, it will need to purchase the IMS installation tool kit for about $250. Replacing the IMS bearing is straight forward. The installer simply must follow the instruction exactly.

So the question comes down to this. Do you wish to spend up to $1000 to reduce your IMS bearing failure risk to below 1% or leave the risk somewhere between 5% and 10%? My calculus adds a another risk factor the the decision. If the IMS bearing did fail and one must replace the engine, how does one know the quality and history of the replacement engine. And does the replacement engine have an upgraded IMS bearing? There are ethical and non-ethical vendors out there. The trick is to find one that is trustworthy.
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Old 06-18-2013, 01:31 PM   #9
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At 58K miles, you seem to be past the early failure zone. From here on out, any of 22 known failures can happen within your engine. This is why Porsche and your indy shop say to skip the IMSB upgrade. I'd drive it until it blows up and use the time to plan and save for the rebuild when it does.

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Old 06-18-2013, 01:58 PM   #10
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A 10% failure rate comes out to maybe 1% per car/year. Now are there other things as liable to happen that you are willing to spend that much money on? Or is this one you'd rather take advantage of well over half the labor already being paid for in the clutch install and do? Only you understand your risk accepting ability, your finances, your situation.

At your age, I knew my risk acceptance was very high and my financial ability to recover from a total engine failure was too so that I made the "no action" decision. Either way it came out I wasn't going to agonize over it and I took the Boxster everywhere and in all weather over other cars I could have taken including a Honda with 4WD. I figured I was more likely to hit a deer than have an IMS go.

But I wasn't having my clutch replaced and wasn't equipped with the same degree of knowledge of the various options and their success rates that we have today. Is my decision right for you? I can't really say.
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Old 06-18-2013, 02:29 PM   #11
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I bought my 04 S (58k mi) knowing I would do the IMSB and clutch/ RMS right away. Sounds like it is weighing on your mind, so seems it would be wise to upgrade while you are in for the clutch. At least will give you some peace of mind about a known weakness in the M96 motor.
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Old 06-18-2013, 05:06 PM   #12
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You guys are AWESOME! All of you. Thanks for taking the time to give me your thoughts. I'm going in to my indy next week for the whole shot (Clutch, PP, FW, TO Bearing and IMS) Thanks for helping me think this through. I have never, in my life had anything I have enjoyed as much as my Boxster. Long drives in the mountains of northern California. Check my Facebook page (pastorverl) for loads of pictures. Lord willing, I intend to do so for a very long time.
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Old 06-18-2013, 06:51 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pastor T View Post
You guys are AWESOME! All of you. Thanks for taking the time to give me your thoughts. I'm going in to my indy next week for the whole shot (Clutch, PP, FW, TO Bearing and IMS) Thanks for helping me think this through. I have never, in my life had anything I have enjoyed as much as my Boxster. Long drives in the mountains of northern California. Check my Facebook page (pastorverl) for loads of pictures. Lord willing, I intend to do so for a very long time.
Pastor - FYI, only your "Friends" on Facebook can see your photos. How about posting a few up here on the Forum for us to see?

And good to hear that you'll be able to sleep at night!
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Old 06-19-2013, 07:15 AM   #14
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No way the IMS replacement should add 2 hours to your whole job....
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Old 06-19-2013, 10:45 AM   #15
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thank you Pastor T, I'm more relaxed knowing your gonna' get that sucker outa' there! CERAMIC, CERAMIC, CERAMIC!!!
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Old 06-19-2013, 03:08 PM   #16
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Hey Woodsman; so I went to Sacramento this morning to discuss the whole deal with another indy. My local guy had not done an ims change so he recommended a very reputable guy in Sac. His shop was full of Porches and there was an m96 on the bench with the ims blown. So I got to see 1st had the entire deal from the inside out. This guy is very knowledgeable and has done many of these. He took over the shop from his dad who has been at it since the early 50's. His recommendation right away was the flat 6 fix. I knew of the flat 6 fix but was unaware of the difference between the IMS retro-fit and the IMS solution. After checking the flat six website I find the solution can only be done by their shop on the east coast. So I guess I'm getting the ceramic retro-fit model right? I made an apt to get the c,pp,tob,fw,ims changed in 2 weeks. Is that what you meant by ceramic, ceramic, ceramic?
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Old 06-19-2013, 03:34 PM   #17
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Pastor T,

In the absence of upgrading the bearing, there's only way to rebuke the IMS demon, and that's with the power of the Johnny Danger Keychain. However, availability is extremely rare, and one can easily be overtaken by it's power.
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Old 06-19-2013, 03:36 PM   #18
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The IMS Solution is available now for purchase by auto repair shops only. So your Sacramento independent can contact SSF auto parts in South San Fransisco to get the IMS Solution kit. Individuals cannot buy the kits.

There is one big limitation for the IMS Solution. Repair shops can install the IMS Solution only in single row bearing cars. Given the year your car was produced, it likely has a dual row bearing engine. So the IMS Retrofit is the likely path for you.

Jake Raby hinted in another thread last weekend that there may be another IMS option available soon. You might email Flat Six Innovations and see if the option would impact your choices.
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Old 06-19-2013, 04:42 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by thom4782 View Post
The IMS Solution is available now for purchase by auto repair shops only. So your Sacramento independent can contact SSF auto parts in South San Fransisco to get the IMS Solution kit. Individuals cannot buy the kits.

There is one big limitation for the IMS Solution. Repair shops can install the IMS Solution only in single row bearing cars. Given the year your car was produced, it likely has a dual row bearing engine. So the IMS Retrofit is the likely path for you.

Jake Raby hinted in another thread last weekend that there may be another IMS option available soon. You might email Flat Six Innovations and see if the option would impact your choices.
Great. Now we have but another IMS option. Before I spend nigh on to 2k on the ceramic retro-fit, I'd like to know what this latest fix is all about ? What's this one going to be called, the IMS "Almighty" or "Grand Crescendo" ? With all due respect, I wish that we could find some definitive solution.
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Old 06-19-2013, 04:44 PM   #20
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It's not just Porsche that hides and denies common design problems. My Jeep Wrangler just surprised me with the dreaded "death wobble". It is a known problem with Jeep and dodge trucks but they deny it and won't compensate those who experience it. Vehicles with coil springs and straight axles are susceptible to it. It is actually very dangerous and scary when it happens. Usually it is a result of track bar bushings going bad, but it is tough to diagnose sometimes. Look around on the Internet and you find out just how common it is. Just spent $300 getting a new track bar, steering damper, wheel balance, and alignment. Throw Jeep in the same pile as some of these other car manufacturers. It's all about the $, and it will never change regardless of how many class action cases are filed. It is a crapshoot every time you get in a vehicle with known catastrophic problems that may occur at any time. I drive my Boxster and don't worry anymore. Yes it could self destruct but I will cross that bridge when I get there.
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