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Old 10-01-2012, 12:35 PM   #1
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IMS adventure

I put off my IMS upgrade until my buddy had his blow. It blew 100 yards from his house and he had it towed to a local indie here in Houston. The bearing cage was destroyed and the stud was broken, fortunately the pistons and valves never met.
I went with him to the shop and saw the damage myself. He got the whole song and dance how it needed to have the race ground out with a dye grinder and how they would need to drop the pan to clear out the remaining parts of the IMS (standard procedure). Nearly 7 weeks later and $4500.00 later he was told he could pick up the car the next day. The shop manager drove the car home that night and found that the car was lacking power and when he got it back to the shop they discovered that the timing ha skipped a tooth an it would need to be re-timed.
(WTF) they did not check the timing before assembling the car and starting it!!
Two weeks later and another $1,500.00 the job was done. That was enough to encourage me to do my own, did it in a weekend I used the pelican parts IMS and it cost me less than $1,000 in parts.

This weekend I helped my buddy chase down an oil leak coming from the front of his motor. It turned out to be the oil pump housing. While apart I found that the oil pump gears looked like they digested rocks and the oil pan did not look like it had been removed. When I drained the oil that was allegedly changed with the IMS job, twice, it was in no way 1500 mile oil. When the pan was dropped I found the remaining bits of his IMS. My buddy had been robbed!!

This is why I do my own work, this shop is one of the highest rated Indies in Houston, after seeing there work I would not let them work on my lawn mower.
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Old 10-01-2012, 12:47 PM   #2
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my god man...is he going to be able to sue them or are they saying we fixed it and you must have done something to it after we fixed it? What a crock of SHI&. I hope he splashes that company all over the news, paper and every other way he can to feel vindicated. What a shame.

IMS is next on my list as well...but I can not do it myself so I need to be real careful. I dont have the time or resources or money to send it to Raby at this point, but the more and more I read about it...that might be the way to go?
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Old 10-01-2012, 01:08 PM   #3
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Frank, what miles/year was your buddies car?

How did your IMS look when you pulled it? Still OK? Miles and Model Year?

That is a nightmare. Where do they find these folks to work on peoples cars.....geeesh.

Do that kind of work on a race car and you'll get your head torn off and ridiculed/black listed right out of the business.

Unbelievable!

I'll be doing my own work too, can't stand to have the thing further damaged by idiots.

Care to mention the shops zip code so we can avoid that one.

Maybe we need a Porsche Mechanic thumbs down list on the Forum.

We can keep it simple to avoid liabilities.

Very Good Mechanic:
Good Mechanic:
So So mechanic:
Poor Mechanic:
Very Poor Mechanic:
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Old 10-01-2012, 01:14 PM   #4
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The shop that tried to save that engine needs to attend my WTI class or engine rebuild school. Thats too much collateral damage to even consider resurrection. Experience has taught us when to just say no and its well before things get to that level; that engine is bound to have suffered collateral damages that will show up in time to come.

Thats why we see cars inbound on trucks from all over North America, most of which have been scarified by someone who hasn't a clue about the internal workings of an M96. Lots of shops are doing the work now because they HAVE to do it to keep any cash coming in the door. They are a decade late to this party.
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Old 10-01-2012, 05:14 PM   #5
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Pm me with the name of the shop so I can avoid it. Thanks.
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Old 10-01-2012, 05:27 PM   #6
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Sorry to hear this! Unreal!

Posting from the Houston airport waiting for my next flight.
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Old 10-01-2012, 06:23 PM   #7
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I would also like to know the name of the shop so we can avoid selling them any components.

Something else:
The remaining foreign object debris from the previously failed bearing will destroy the new "open" bearing in no time flat. When that much FOD is in an engine its a goner and should not be retrofitted as the retrofit bearing has ZERO tolerance for this type of debris.

Bet they didn't think about that. Most don't. If the retrofit bearing fails they'll be SOL.
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Old 10-01-2012, 06:39 PM   #8
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Same here. Pls. pm me the name of the shop.
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Old 10-01-2012, 08:07 PM   #9
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My buddies car is a 2005 boxster 2.7 tip with less than 45,000 miles.
The first thing I would have done would be to pull the pan!!

My car is a 2000 boxster S 6 speed with 118,000 miles. One of the first things I did when I bought it with 110,000 miles was pull the oil pan and all I found was a freeze plug from, what I am assuming, passenger side. but no metal chunks, or, if you take a close look at the oil pan on the right side just below where oil is returned to the sump from the head, no aluminum slurry.

I am a full time student at UH, I'm not a kid, so on my summer vacation I put my car on jack stands and went after the IMS. I did all the research on the subject I could find and went after it slow and methodically. I had the double row variant with no external evidence of imminent failure. Once removed and dissected there was slight galling and the outer part of the race had a weird s like pattern on it. I had no issues at all removing and the only thing that baffled me for a bit was with the Pelican Parts retrofit there are two spacers one for single row and one for double row. In the package for the double row was the spacer for the single and vice verse and the cover was not even close to seating, after looking at all my photos and staring at my 101 projects book for hours I notice in the photo of the P,P kit the spacers were switched. after that easy sailing. I checked cam timing 4 times just to be sure. On the Durametric I'm rock solid at -6, -3 on cam deviation. I corrected others work as well, all to do with the passenger side head, I had the spark plugs from a 2005 3.4, two different sets of injectors, and the passenger oil return pump was clocked wrong. While I was at it I threw two new radiators on, a water pump, 160 degree thermostat, and six flea bay injectors I had sonically cleaned and flow checked, spark plugs, and spark plug tubes and seals, removed and cleaned intake and replaced all o rings including oil separator line o rings. I know I'm forgetting some items. The only issue I have now is my once good clutch can't handle the re discovered power and is beginning to slip and my rear tires are beginning to melt.
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Old 10-02-2012, 05:13 AM   #10
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Frank:
Did your friend have the upgraded IMS with the thicker bolt or the older style?
Early 05's might have had the old style but by mid-year IIRC, all the cars were getting the new style.
original owner? any track days?
Seems way early especially in a 987 for that to happen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank A View Post
My buddies car is a 2005 boxster 2.7 tip with less than 45,000 miles.
The first thing I would have done would be to pull the pan!!

My car is a 2000 boxster S 6 speed with 118,000 miles. One of the first things I did when I bought it with 110,000 miles was pull the oil pan and all I found was a freeze plug from, what I am assuming, passenger side. but no metal chunks, or, if you take a close look at the oil pan on the right side just below where oil is returned to the sump from the head, no aluminum slurry.

I am a full time student at UH, I'm not a kid, so on my summer vacation I put my car on jack stands and went after the IMS. I did all the research on the subject I could find and went after it slow and methodically. I had the double row variant with no external evidence of imminent failure. Once removed and dissected there was slight galling and the outer part of the race had a weird s like pattern on it. I had no issues at all removing and the only thing that baffled me for a bit was with the Pelican Parts retrofit there are two spacers one for single row and one for double row. In the package for the double row was the spacer for the single and vice verse and the cover was not even close to seating, after looking at all my photos and staring at my 101 projects book for hours I notice in the photo of the P,P kit the spacers were switched. after that easy sailing. I checked cam timing 4 times just to be sure. On the Durametric I'm rock solid at -6, -3 on cam deviation. I corrected others work as well, all to do with the passenger side head, I had the spark plugs from a 2005 3.4, two different sets of injectors, and the passenger oil return pump was clocked wrong. While I was at it I threw two new radiators on, a water pump, 160 degree thermostat, and six flea bay injectors I had sonically cleaned and flow checked, spark plugs, and spark plug tubes and seals, removed and cleaned intake and replaced all o rings including oil separator line o rings. I know I'm forgetting some items. The only issue I have now is my once good clutch can't handle the re discovered power and is beginning to slip and my rear tires are beginning to melt.
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Old 10-02-2012, 08:25 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikenOH View Post
Frank:
Did your friend have the upgraded IMS with the thicker bolt or the older style?
Early 05's might have had the old style but by mid-year IIRC, all the cars were getting the new style.
original owner? any track days?
Seems way early especially in a 987 for that to happen.
His is an early 05, No track days, 2nd owner, Bought at dealer with 30,000 miles.
He always had it serviced by the same dealer, they saw the car earlier for scheduled maintenance. He did talk to the service manager after incident about IMS but he got the Schultz response "I Know nothing , nothing" there is no IMS problem.

I guess Porsche has no concept of customer retention
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Old 10-02-2012, 09:55 AM   #12
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Quote:
I guess Porsche has no concept of customer retention
They've figured out that fresh meat tastes best.
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US Patent 8,992,089 &
US Patent 9,416,697
Developer of The IMS Retrofit Procedure- M96/ M97 Specialist
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Old 10-02-2012, 12:58 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank A View Post
His is an early 05, No track days, 2nd owner, Bought at dealer with 30,000 miles.
He always had it serviced by the same dealer, they saw the car earlier for scheduled maintenance. He did talk to the service manager after incident about IMS but he got the Schultz response "I Know nothing , nothing" there is no IMS problem.

I guess Porsche has no concept of customer retention
Absolutely pathetic; this is the kind of stuff that can scare the crap out of potential buyers, but there always seem to be a steady supply of those that are undeterred by stories like this.

Jake--having the car fail with a tiptronic made me wonder if the typical driving style with the auto tranny--low revs, shifting early--lends itself to these kind of failures. Any logic to that?
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Old 10-02-2012, 02:41 PM   #14
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Jake--having the car fail with a tiptronic made me wonder if the typical driving style with the auto tranny--low revs, shifting early--lends itself to these kind of failures. Any logic to that?
Absolutely. With low engine speeds the IMS Bearing sees the highest loads due to low surface speeds.
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Old 10-05-2012, 02:33 PM   #15
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After reading about this IMS debacle for the past six months I'm wondering where is Porsche's liability in this? It's obviously a multi-year design defect. Shouldn't they owe up to the mistake like we require other carmanufacturers to do and recall the motor? Or did I just make a funny?
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Old 10-05-2012, 02:43 PM   #16
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After reading about this IMS debacle for the past six months I'm wondering where is Porsche's liability in this? It's obviously a multi-year design defect. Shouldn't they owe up to the mistake like we require other carmanufacturers to do and recall the motor? Or did I just make a funny?
You made a funny.................but not a particularly humorous one.
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Old 10-05-2012, 04:41 PM   #17
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And why is that? Nissan replaced the front tires on my 350Z because they set the alignment incorrectly at the factory. Why should Porsche get a bye for a very obvious design flaw that has spawned a whole cottage industry? Don't get me wrong, I love my car but I hate driving with the thought that my motor could go at anytime.
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Old 10-05-2012, 05:45 PM   #18
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They didn't admit or fix a very big issue with the air cooled motors years ago either.

Boutique car companies are all the same.
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Old 10-06-2012, 05:12 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by davedeck View Post
And why is that?
simple.

"cost of the recalls or repair" > "cost of negative press or hit to reputation"
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Old 10-06-2012, 07:26 AM   #20
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And why is that? Nissan replaced the front tires on my 350Z because they set the alignment incorrectly at the factory. Why should Porsche get a bye for a very obvious design flaw that has spawned a whole cottage industry? Don't get me wrong, I love my car but I hate driving with the thought that my motor could go at anytime.
This is Porsche, not Nissan; in the nearly four decades I've been working on them, their answer to any problem is, "What problem?"
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