3 more IMS reports - 986 Forum - The Community for Porsche Boxster & Cayman Owners

harryrcb · 04-09-2012, 05:18 PM

Here I go again, reporting some IMS issues. Did 3 more cars, One with no problems. one with the bearing seal starting to deteriorate and the bearing no longer turning smoothly (notchy) and one that failed completely.
The one without any problems was on 02 S with 65k on the clock, no visible signs of oil seepage or leaks, oil changed often, driven hard.
The second one with the seal and bearing on its way out was a 04 Carrera with 29k on the clock, oil seepage evident, both RMS and IMS were seeping, well taken care of and driven hard but not often.
The third in an 03 Boxster S with 145 k on the clock, lots of evidence of oil leaks, from all appearances was not treated well and I presume the oil was not changed regularly.

Burg Boxster · 04-09-2012, 05:42 PM

Possible IMS issues (which could be sub 2%) are troubling no doubt...

Of real concern though is broadcasting identical messages across multiple forums...

Seems marketing / commercial related... not "enthusiast". Hopefully you're a sponsor.

3 more IMS reports - 6speedonline.com Forums

3 more IMS reports - Pelican Parts Technical BBS

I'm sure there are more...

harryrcb · 04-10-2012, 05:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burg Boxster

Possible IMS issues (which could be sub 2%) are troubling no doubt...

Of real concern though is broadcasting identical messages across multiple forums...

Seems marketing / commercial related... not "enthusiast". Hopefully you're a sponsor.

3 more IMS reports - 6speedonline.com Forums

3 more IMS reports - Pelican Parts Technical BBS

I'm sure there are more...

The reason I post these is for information. I get all my work locally and I work out of my home garage by myself. the 2% figure in what I have seen seems a little low. I'm not trying to stir up business, just putting it out there that there is an engineering problem with these cars and people should be made aware. There are a lot of other cars with the same problem that never get reported. I have found people end up just selling their cars, not even going to the dealers and just taking the loss. this can be prevented with awareness.

ryanwise · 04-10-2012, 06:01 AM

I had Harry do my car.........01 S with the new bearing. Pretty hard to drum up business when theres no phone number or even a city referenced in his signature. Most folks here in the local PCA know Harry and his work.

san rensho · 04-10-2012, 06:13 AM

Harry, were the bearings single or double row? Was the motor destroyed on the car that had the failure?

Jaxonalden · 04-10-2012, 07:31 AM

Harry,

What kind of bearing did you go back with? With the number of bearings you've done, mileage, maintenance and the way you say they've been treated, are you tracking any type of trend analysis?

What I'm wondering; is the seal the culprit? Seals that are intact and holding in the grease are fine (according to this thread), but once the seal starts to go and hot engine oil begins to penetrate and wash out the grease that the bearings life is dealt a death sentence. You might want to ask your customers what type and brand of engine oil they used? Could certain brands be deteriorating the bearing seal? I would expect the seal is made of neoprene or some other type of oil resistant material, but you never know.

With that said, in your opinion, are OEM bearings fine as a replacement part as long as the seal is inspected?

m332is · 04-10-2012, 09:17 AM

Just had my IMS bearing replaced by my long time mechanic - specializes in Porsche and BMW for both street and race/track cars. The owner is a solid engine builder. Here's the background... 2001 Boxster S with 15,000 miles. I bought the car last year from my friend with about 12,000. It was his wife's car and the dealer maintained it each year. She never really drove it much (as you can tell) as they quickly had a few kids.

I had no external leaks but once the started tearing apart the car, my mechanic said the IMS bearing was showing signs of a light leak. It was a single row bearing.

I used the L&N kit, also did RSM and AO separator.

Glad I replaced it if for nothing else than my own peace of mind. Especially as the car wasn't used much over the past 10 years and wasn't driven hard... before me

Vince

Ghostrider 310 · 04-10-2012, 09:31 AM

Vince, can you pm me the indy mechanic? That's close enough to me for when the car is no longer under warranty.

jdiba · 04-10-2012, 10:45 AM

Everything I've learned about my Boxster S I've learned on forums like this one from guys like Harry. He knows what he's talking about and he's just putting the information out here. Which I appreciate (please don't stop). What we all do with that info is up to us, is it not ? Whether we take it to him for repair, or someone else or nobody at all for that matter....I like being informed and educated about my car. I consider it free knowledge.

So to the Jake Rabys' and Mike Fockes' and Harrys', etc. out here on these multiple forums, please keep educating the masses as you have been.

Its appreciated.

feelyx · 04-10-2012, 11:19 AM

I think these posts have very good information in them. I would like to see the inside of the bearing of the 02 with 65k on it though just as a reference.

harryrcb · 04-11-2012, 06:00 AM

I just want to got into a little more detail on car #2. the flange seal was seeping, upon pulling the bearing cover, the bearing appeared to be OK, the center spun freely or so it seemed. It was not until I pulled the bearing out that I realized something is going on. There was a lot of residue build up inside the shaft(something not visible with bearing in place) the bearing itself had no oil or grease in it. Normally when you take a healthy bearing out, lay it on it's side, a lot of oil will drain out. This one had none, holding in my and and turning it revealed what felt like a mild ratcheting. another words the bearing was starting to break down. Did a thorough inspection of the filter, took an oil sample sent off to Blackstone (has not come back yet) there were no traces of anything in the filter. All of thes cars had the single row bearing.
My point being, just taking the bearing cover off is not a good enough inspection, you must take the bearing out. If I had made the call that the bearing was OK and put in just a new seal I would have had a law suit on my hands in 2 or 3 months for sure. Since you would have to take the bearing out for proper inspection then it only makes sense to go ahead and replace it and as of now it appears that LN Engineering bearing is the best solution.
I hope that answers all your questions
thank you for your support

dewolf · 04-11-2012, 06:23 AM

What about Pelicans bearing?

harryrcb · 04-11-2012, 06:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaxonalden

Harry,
What I'm wondering; is the seal the culprit?

This is a very interesting question. Which came first the chicken or the egg?
It makes sense that once the seal start leaking that it deprives oil to the bearing which it's not suppose to be there in the first place. I have found on every car except the blown bearings that there was an abundance of oil behind the bearing. When you pull the bearing out you get about half a quart of oil gushing out from the shaft. I sill remember doing my first bearing and not realizing there was that much oil behind it. I had to change my pants. (oil soaked for those who might be thinking something else)
I think that when a bearing starts to fail, you will get some overheating and possibly minute vibrations that contribute to the leak.
IMO it is better to be safe then sorry, 9 times out of 10 the engine will destroy itself when the bearing goes, then its gets very expensive

feelyx · 04-11-2012, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by harryrcb

I just want to got into a little more detail on car #2. the flange seal was seeping, upon pulling the bearing cover, the bearing appeared to be OK, the center spun freely or so it seemed. It was not until I pulled the bearing out that I realized something is going on. There was a lot of residue build up inside the shaft(something not visible with bearing in place) the bearing itself had no oil or grease in it. Normally when you take a healthy bearing out, lay it on it's side, a lot of oil will drain out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by harryrcb

I have found on every car except the blown bearings that there was an abundance of oil behind the bearing. When you pull the bearing out you get about half a quart of oil gushing out from the shaft

There is some good info right here, especially from a person that has done plenty of bearings. Thanks

Jager · 04-11-2012, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by harryrcb

This is a very interesting question. Which came first the chicken or the egg?
It makes sense that once the seal start leaking that it deprives oil to the bearing which it's not suppose to be there in the first place. I have found on every car except the blown bearings that there was an abundance of oil behind the bearing. When you pull the bearing out you get about half a quart of oil gushing out from the shaft. I sill remember doing my first bearing and not realizing there was that much oil behind it. I had to change my pants. (oil soaked for those who might be thinking something else)
I think that when a bearing starts to fail, you will get some overheating and possibly minute vibrations that contribute to the leak.
IMO it is better to be safe then sorry, 9 times out of 10 the engine will destroy itself when the bearing goes, then its gets very expensive

Yep, it looks like this:

mikefocke · 04-12-2012, 05:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by harryrcb

and as of now it appears that LN Engineering bearing is the best solution. I hope that answers all your questions thank you for your support

No it raises the question of what aspects of the LN bearing cause you to say it is the best when compared to other (and potentially cheaper) IMS bearing replacement kits being offered. There are now about 5 solutions being offered with more in development...

Jaxonalden · 04-12-2012, 07:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jager

Yep, it looks like this:

Kind of reminds me of my last colonoscopy.

Jake Raby · 04-12-2012, 10:48 AM

Harry, You FEAR MONGER! How dare you share this information and scare people!

This month is our two yearly IMS Retrofit Clinic here.. We do this in April and October each yard and this year I'd not dare post what we have found.

Being hated for telling the truth has to be a 21st century thing.. Its all supposed to be Unicorns and Rainbows, right?

Bobiam · 04-12-2012, 11:27 AM

Thanks for useful information, Harry. And thinks for taking the time to post it in multiple forums. There's a lot of owners out there that may not subscribe to this forum (although they should!).

Bob (with the new dashboard)

Brad Roberts · 04-12-2012, 04:25 PM

Quote:

No it raises the question of what aspects of the LN bearing cause you to say it is the best when compared to other (and potentially cheaper) IMS bearing replacement kits being offered. There are now about 5 solutions being offered with more in development...

The cheaper versions are utilizing a cheaper bearing...

Ask around.. Once you find out "who" developed the Pelican bearing... you'll realize we have two reliable replacements. The rest will be "guesses" as to whether they last or not. I cant take the chance on a "cheaper" version.

B