3 more IMS reports

[Jaxonalden]

Was that at a dealership? With an OEM bearing?

[mikefocke]

LN has a list of those they regularly sell to and thus are presumed experienced.

[mikefocke]

But then you can say that about any part subject to friction. It will eventually wear and fail. I don't know of an engine in any car that is not subject to eventual mortality. When I look back to the cars I've owned over the last 52 years, the engines failed at a higher rate than that I perceive the M96 to be failing (on average).

[landrovered]

Have to agree, the Rover Bosch 4.0 and 4.6 V8s from 2000 to 2004 have a much higher mortality rate than any Porsche engine.

[harryrcb]

Originally Posted by landrovered

If you cannot hand the car to a Luddite and have them drive it without a long list of do's and don'ts then you have not solved the IMS problem, you are simply swapping parts. It is a fairly straightforward concept.
That is my point.

the truth is that LN Engineering does have a fix but it involves replacing the IMShaft
Not too many people are willing to pay to have the engine overhauled just for that so they came up with a band aide fix by just replacing the bearing. Just ask them, they will tell you.

Originally Posted by landrovered

In Atlanta Jim Ellis Porsche (the dealership) will install the any IMS you want and quite reasonably priced as well. So it does not HAVE to be an independent shop.

Most dealers are unwilling to put a third party part in a Porsche (at least in my area)

Originally Posted by mikefocke

LN has a list of those they regularly sell to and thus are presumed experienced.

I have a small problem with their list !!! they want a monthly payment to get on it. That does NOT mean that a shop is better than one that is not on the list just because they give money to LN Engineering.

[seningen]

Originally Posted by Brad Roberts

I have seen NO 2.5 failures. Doesn't mean it won't/cant happen, but I have seen none and I have been involved with the cars since 1999, racing/time trial/autoX since late 04. The 2.5 doesn't turn the RPM that the 2.7/3.2/3.4 turn, it doesn't see the same heat etc.

I have pulled apart a LOT (20+) blown 2.5's, a couple had questionable bearings, but none of them had failed completely.



B

I bought a 99 a few years back with a blown engine.

When i put the car on a lift -- the IMS bolt was sheared off and facing head down
sitting between the engine and tranny.

this was a 99 tip with 92K miles on it.

mike

[seningen]

Originally Posted by harryrcb

Brad I have a 2.5 now that has jumped timing but I have not pulled the bearings out to see if that was the cause. I retimed the engine but one of the cylinders has low compression. comming out the bottom end that's why I did not bother with the IMS. Now, however, I will have to pull the bearing to see it that was the cause. Will let you guys now end of next week

Be careful that its not the whole IMS gear shifting on the tube.

The early IMS tubes have this failure mechanism.

mike

[Jake Raby]

That does NOT mean that a shop is better than one that is not on the list just because they give money to LN Engineering.

I won't recommend anyone.. Because we end up ultimately responsible for the "other shop" should someone get hosed by them.. Thats the reason why it is a paid list at LN. For me there is no amount of money that someone can pay me to gain my recommendation.

[bartocollector]

Just had my 04 S inspected by Matrix integrated in Portland. They have diagnosed a faulty water pump bearing and say the IMS is OK. They have done several IMS bearing updates with the LS kit. They said "in good conscience " they could not recommend doing the IMS . They have 30 years experience and have seen only one bad bearing and no engine failures.

[fivepointnine]

mine had no indications of failing when I took it up to redmond european outside Seattle....but it was extremely worn and on its way out. They also showed me a bag of failed bearings!

mine is an 02 with 66k miles.

[landrovered]

Originally Posted by Jake Raby

I won't recommend anyone.. Because we end up ultimately responsible for the "other shop" should someone get hosed by them.. Thats the reason why it is a paid list at LN. For me there is no amount of money that someone can pay me to gain my recommendation.

This is clear as mud.

[Ghostrider 310]

The insinuation seems to be that the L&N list of master wrenches has never effected a repair that reflected negatively on the list or people who admire said list. If that's the case, it's only a matter of time before a repair does not meet the requirements of the fickle and unpredictable public consumer and someone gets angry at a list member. What the list does not mean is that someone not on it is incapable of effecting the repair.

[landrovered]

It just means LN is leveraging their reputation for additional profit.

[harryrcb]

Originally Posted by landrovered

This is clear as mud.

Originally Posted by Ghostrider 310

The insinuation seems to be that the L&N list of master wrenches has never effected a repair that reflected negatively on the list or people who admire said list. If that's the case, it's only a matter of time before a repair does not meet the requirements of the fickle and unpredictable public consumer and someone gets angry at a list member. What the list does not mean is that someone not on it is incapable of effecting the repair.

Originally Posted by landrovered

It just means LN is leveraging their reputation for additional profit.

WOAH guys, let's not get off subject, I only mentioned the list because another member pointed it out and I have heard some of my customers ask if I was on it. As you can guess I'm not on the list and that is all I will say on the forum about this.

The fact remains that LN Engineering have done their homework on this and as far as I'm concerned it's the only viable option to address this problem.

[landrovered]

I stand behind my statement. Why would you charge to be on a list of prefered installers if it was not to make additional revenue.

[Jake Raby]

Originally Posted by landrovered

I stand behind my statement. Why would you charge to be on a list of prefered installers if it was not to make additional revenue.

To partially pay for the wasted time and bull**************** associated with said recommendations. When you to work isn't your company employing you to do a job that will generate revenue for the company? What's so freakin horrible about making a profit these days?

[Ghostrider 310]

Nothing wrong with making a profit, the issue is paying to be recommended. It carries the same stench as finding out the Hollywood walk of fame is a track of purchased awards or when whose who in HS students puts you in Christmas lights for a fee. Ethics is everything, when we leave this life our wealth pile isn't what people remember us for, it's the moments and deeds. The honest wrenches in my town have full schedules they don't need no stinking badges.

[mikefocke]

So you expect that Charles will maintain a list of several hundred shops with all the data entry/update/verification that that entails for free? Maybe he does a credit check or a Better Business check? Maybe being on the list implies that the installer can call him for help if he gets stuck in doing your job?

(I come at this as the President of a home owner's association of 305 lots where the maintenance of the data base of names, addresses, phone numbers, email addresses, etc is a several days a month job.)

Recall that Jake had to stop selling IMSR kits because the overhead of supporting those trying to do the installs was forcing him to have a full time employee just answering the phone. When your reputation is on the line and someone out there is doing the work and you are a long way away it is a tough situation. Will the car owner blame the XYZ shop or that darn LN kit installed by the guy that was on your list?

[Ghostrider 310]

So you expect Charles will maintain a list of several hundred shops with all the data entry/update/verification that that entails for free?


It's not like he has to do it on an abacus, so um, yes, yes I do. I had to maintain volumes of dealer information and MSDS sheets, never charged a customer one dime for any of it. If you can market yourself in national magazines you have to give some simple customer service along with the quest if you intend to see dramatic sales results and loyal customers.

PS Since you brought it up how much is the fee? Share that with me and I'll be able to tell you if it's a "Missouri boat ride".

[JFP in PA]

I think most are totally missing the point in Charles charging to be on the LN “recommended” installer list. I’m sure Charles gets a lot of requests for known or “approved” installers; so he maintains a list and charges the shops to be on it. Think of the fee as an advertising expense, if you pay the fee and get on the list, you will get access to business opportunities that you may not otherwise have come your way. So paying the fee is no different, and one Hell of a lot cheaper, than a small shop running ads in national publications focused on Porsche owners.

I also have to say that I totally agree with Jake’s comments; for some reason, there seems to be a decidedly anti entrepreneur bias on the web; and in particular on one other Boxster oriented website. I for one am totally unapologetic in the fact that I make a pretty good living by trying to fix these cars faster than you guys can try to break them. But I am also the guy with the investment in tools, equipment, and hired talent required to be ready to make that happen if your car decides to throw a code or fail to start next Tuesday. People that complain about what repairs or replacement upgraded components cost also seem to forget that if it wasn’t for people like Charles Navarro and Jake Raby, and the investments they made in their businesses, you would still be getting hosed by the dealer, searching through the junkyard for a decent replacement engine, or selling your prized Porsche for scrap metal prices if the engine let go because the IMS bearing decided to go south. Jake and Charles made the investment and gave you new choices; as such, you do not have to take them up on these options, but you should also not be critical of the fact that they make money doing it.