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Old 03-16-2012, 08:26 PM   #1
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Camshaft deviation specs for '01 3.2L

I have Bentley & 101 Projects but can't find what the acceptable range for Camshaft Deviation readings should be. Mine are rock-solid across all RPM's cold or hot but other posts say that +/- 6 or +/- 4 are the maximum limits. Mine are as follows:
#1 = -8.01
#2 = -4.62

Since one seems to be 'out', what does that tell me & what should I be looking at next?
Thanks.
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Old 03-17-2012, 09:08 AM   #2
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Porsche has used both +/-4 and +/-6 degrees, with the latter being the most common on the M96/97.

Yes, you are definitely out of spec; cause could be a number of issues ranging from the tensioners, chain paddles (including the ones between the cams of a five chain motor), chains themselves, and/or the VarioCam components. Unfortunately, the only way to know what is causing it is some extensive diagnostics checks, which could include checking the actual mechanical cam timing itself, which requires some specialty tools...........
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Old 03-17-2012, 06:24 PM   #3
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Yes, you are definitely out of spec;
What's my risk being out of spec like that? It seems to be running great...
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Old 03-17-2012, 08:10 PM   #4
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..............................

Last edited by madmods; 08-29-2013 at 03:19 AM.
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Old 03-18-2012, 07:57 AM   #5
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What's my risk being out of spec like that? It seems to be running great...
Problem is that whatever is causing the car to be out of spec is going to get worse, not better.................
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Old 03-18-2012, 09:11 AM   #6
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VarioCam chain pads worn out?
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Old 03-18-2012, 12:17 PM   #7
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My understanding is that the cam timing was not very accurate straight from the factory, so unless you checked it when the car was new, hard to say if its because of component wear.

Insite (?) has a great write up for adjusting cam timing that reqires no special tools except for a bolt to pin the crank at TDC.
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Old 03-18-2012, 05:26 PM   #8
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VarioCam chain pads worn out?
Any way to find out short of a tear-down?
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Old 03-18-2012, 05:37 PM   #9
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Performance is affected if I'm correct. In terms of risks, good question. I could be wrong but if this anti-gravity flat6 thing keeps deviating on itself then pistons may start to punch up on the valves.

My Box was deviated at -3 at 50k two years ago. Now at 70k and deviated at -6. Can't wait to see where it will blow up

The biggest risk imho is you will never bother buying a Porsche engine ever again in your life brotha. Go Italian, or if you can't afford real quality, stick to the Jap production line models (Nissan, Maxda, Honda, Toyota, etc...).
Nah, I've had my fill of Italian-made machines; my wife is of Italian decent & I understand her more than I do the way Italian cars work (or don't). At least German cars make sense. As for the Far East cars? No. They build dependable but boring machines (that around my part of the world rust faster than an '80's Ford).
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Old 03-19-2012, 02:24 AM   #10
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I'll give you +1 on the "German cars make sense" but mate, aren't their engine a bit overkill for what they are supposed to achieve?

I'm far from being a P expert like JFP in PA, but I know just enough to tell how flaky those flat6 are. e.g. mine: RMS seal leaking, IMS (who knows), and now a NEG -3 degree cam deviation in less than 20,000miles. Speaking of auto-timing technology huh!

So what's the deal for you? Are you going to give this job to a garage hoping to save $2,000 off the price of a rebuilt engine? Or you are just going to change the porsche artistics such as the vario ramps/plastic thingny and get a spot-on timing job done? The later being the first step if I've understood correctly and the only way to find out if everything else is groovy....

Now knowing that f6 super porsche engine things don't even meet the Jap production cars half-way, I'm at the stage where I am more inclined to import an 'already rebuilt' engine for the roadster instead. Not sure what to do in all honesty so I'll subscribe to your thread if you don't mind
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Old 03-19-2012, 02:26 AM   #11
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You timing is retarded therefore loss of power in the low RPMs. Just like mine. Low revs as in street use..... LOLL almost hilarious
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Old 03-19-2012, 02:28 AM   #12
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Any way to find out short of a tear-down?
Unless you have accumulated plastic shards in the oil sump, no. And even if you have got shards, you still don't know which pads/paddles need to come out until you look at them. Quite often on five chain motors the smaller paddles between the cams are the issue. But you still have to look.............
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Old 03-19-2012, 02:43 AM   #13
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Unless you have accumulated plastic shards in the oil sump, no. And even if you have got shards, you still don't know which pads/paddles need to come out until you look at them. Quite often on five chain motors the smaller paddles between the cams are the issue. But you still have to look.............
holy crap... and I bet you can't find out which chain is the culprit just by looking at them. This is not good news... I've had it. I'll sit and watch this thread for a bit
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Old 03-19-2012, 02:21 PM   #14
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Unless you have accumulated plastic shards in the oil sump, no. And even if you have got shards, you still don't know which pads/paddles need to come out until you look at them. Quite often on five chain motors the smaller paddles between the cams are the issue. But you still have to look.............
I changed the oil & filter this weekend, nothing in the filter except a small glump (technical term) of what looked & felt like white sealer. It was still pliable, maybe a little over 1/8" long & smaller wide. Oil was clean with nothing in the bottom of the catch basin. I guess it's time to pull out the Bentley to see what I'm in for.

Madmods, this will be a DIY project; I haven't found much that wasn't on this thing!
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Old 03-19-2012, 02:50 PM   #15
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holy crap... and I bet you can't find out which chain is the culprit just by looking at them. This is not good news... I've had it. I'll sit and watch this thread for a bit
Actually, yes you can see which chain paddle wear pad is beat, often it is more than one. The plastic wear pads were meant to do just that: Absorb the wear rather than have metal to metal wear, which would have circulated through the engine and killed the bearings. You can see obvious wear on the pads posted above by ProDriver, the two on the left are toast.....
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Old 03-20-2012, 01:31 AM   #16
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Old 03-27-2012, 05:50 PM   #17
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We have pulled apart and built numerous S engines over the last couple of years.. ALL OF THEM have worn out cam tensioner pads and crank to IMS pads. All of them. No exceptions. The new cam tensioner pads are made out of much better material, and we have pulled covers on multiple engines we built from several years ago and the new pads are not wearing anywhere near as fast as the OE pads that shipped with the engines.

When something comes in for a top end rebuild, we are going deep dive and pulling the rest of the engine apart and replacing all the plastic bullsh_t in these engines.. as SOP we are replacing the rod bolts/crank carrier bolts with ARP and measuring the drag on the crank in the carrier warmed up (we are looking for a certain inch/lb measurement)

Your engine will fail these parts, and it will cause a lot more damage if you don't do something about it now. The deviation *could* be something simple like out of adjustment, but I'm guessing its a combination of worn plastic bits.



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Old 03-28-2012, 03:31 AM   #18
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Brad - I can't believe you are publically informing that "Porsche" engineered their motors with vital parts, made of plastic. Oh also, the 100% failure rating comment was even less pleasant to hear

I bet all those who changed their IMS bearing based on a 0.??% failure rate are not finding it phoony right now lolllllll
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Old 03-28-2012, 12:32 PM   #19
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All rotating or contacting parts wear, why should that surprise anyone. Some sooner than others. And none of us know the probability or what the distribution over time curve looks like.
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Old 03-29-2012, 03:08 AM   #20
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All rotating or contacting parts wear, why should that surprise anyone. Some sooner than others. And none of us know the probability or what the distribution over time curve looks like.
Mikefoke - see below:

"My Box was deviated at -3 at 50k two years ago. Now at 70k and deviated at -6." and it has a noticable lack of power at low revs.

My first and last Porsche motor! I can live with a plastic window on "a Porsche car" but can't do motor vital parts made of cheap plastic sorry mate....

70k and already out of specs?! now why would that not surprise anyone
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