Oil Recommendation ?

[Johnny Danger]

I know in past that this topic has been discussed ad infinitum. However, after researching the forum, I noticed in the end that many of these threads were reduced to argumentation, finger pointing - ultimately giving rise to extraneous discussion . With that said, I'm looking for a simple recommendation with regard to choosing a brand and grade of oil for my vehicle . Up until now, I've been using Mobil One . However, I' m interested in switching to another high quality synthetic oil . My vehicle is an '02 S with 18k original miles, and it's driven seasonally (April-November) up here in New England .
Some brands that I have read positive things about are Motul, Redline, Royal Purple and
Castrol . Any thoughts ?

[DenverSteve]

Johnny, my thoughts are pretty simple......okay didn't really mean that....but, as to oil, if it ain't broke.........why change? Someone will try to discredit every brand, make & model of everything. Mobile 1 is being run in probably more U.S. Porsches than anything else.

[Mark_T]

LMAO Johnny - you serious or are you just trying to start something?

[jsceash]

I race stock drag 12 years. Castrol was the highest rated at that time. This is the first car that I did not use Castrol in. The Castrol did show better than the other brands for lowest internal deposits and rapid seating of pistons and valves. If you want to change look at the racing divisions the three that stand out. Mobil 1, Castrol syn. and Royal purple the new up and comer. Their primary concerns are reduced friction @ high temp and high RPM. Unless the team has a oil sponsership they are using one of these.

[Johnny Danger]

Originally Posted by Mark_T

LMAO Johnny - you serious or are you just trying to start something?

As much as I like to be a provocateur at times, I'm being quite serious . Although, I'm starting to get a sense of where this thread is heading .

[Johnny Danger]

Originally Posted by DenverSteve

Johnny, my thoughts are pretty simple......okay didn't really mean that....but, as to oil, if it ain't broke.........why change? Someone will try to discredit every brand, make & model of everything. Mobile 1 is being run in probably more U.S. Porsches than anything else.

Point well taken .

[Flavor 987S]

I have just over 45,000 miles on my 987S. For most of the past 6 driving seasons, I've very successfully used Red Line 5W40 with Blackstone UOA's. Last year, prior to winter hibernation, I switched to Mobil 1's 5W50 (hard oil to find). It was just drained last week, after one driving season and about 6,400 miles. The UOA looks excellent, and I plan on using it another year.

If my UOA's continue to to be excellent (as expected) I plan to stay with the 5W50. If not, my pan was/is to try Motul.

I went with the Mobil 5W50 for these reasons:

1) Porsche approved
2) A 5W50 weight (I wanted a 50 weight)
3) Easier to obtain than Red Line (not shipping, I can pick up from a Mobil dist. in Elgin, IL)
4) About $6.75/quart


IMHO, the only way to justify your oil selection is with several data points from a UOA report.

[Johnny Danger]

Originally Posted by Flavor 987S

I have just over 45,000 miles on my 987S. For most of the past 6 driving seasons, I've very successfully used Red Line 5W40 with Blackstone UOA's. Last year, prior to winter hibernation, I switched to Mobil 1's 5W50 (hard oil to find). It was just drained last week, after one driving season and about 6,400 miles. The UOA looks excellent, and I plan on using it another year.

If my UOA's continue to to be excellent (as expected) I plan to stay with the 5W50. If not, my pan was/is to try Motul.

I went with the Mobil 5W50 for these reasons:

1) Porsche approved
2) A 5W50 weight (I wanted a 50 weight)
3) Easier to obtain than Red Line (not shipping, I can pick up from a Mobil dist. in Elgin, IL)
4) About $6.75/quart


IMHO, the only way to justify your oil selection is with several data points from a UOA report.

Just so I understand, you feel that 50 grade oil provides better lubrication at higher operating temperatures than 40W ? Also, some of what I've read suggests that there's a benefit to using 0-5W for initial start-up over the usual 10W . Does this make sense ?

[san rensho]

Originally Posted by Johnny Danger

Just so I understand, you feel that 50 grade oil provides better lubrication at higher operating temperatures than 40W ? Also, some of what I've read suggests that there's a benefit to using 0-5W for initial start-up over the usual 10W . Does this make sense ?

Since this post has predictably turned into a discussion of which oil is best, I'll put in my 2 cents worth.

I was first convinced that, based on several on line sources, I should use a heavier weight oil, I used both 15-50 and 20-50 for "flush" oil changes of about 1k miles each (I just got my car and the previous owner went long on the oil change intervals), both to try to get rid of the start up rattle and since I live in Miami Florida where its always hot, to protect against heat breakdown of oil. The heavier weight oils made no demonstrable difference in start up clatter.

Then I read the article below and I am a now a convert to M1 0-40. The long and the short of the article is that oil flow is what is important. You want as much volume going through the motor as possible at all times. Since 0-X weight oil is thinner when cold than a 5, 10, 20-X oil, it will provide more volume while the motor is warming up.

And remember, oil temp lags behind coolant temp during warmup. My Durametric shows that oil temp is about 10 C degrees behing coolant temp until the coolant gets close to 90 C, which takes a good 20 minutes in my car with combined city/highway driving. Once its up to temp, the oil temp is a little less than 10 C hotter than the collant temp, in the 100-105 C. range.

Once the oil is hot, the viscosity in now at 40, which at the oil temps I am running, is more than enough to protect the motor. Now, if I were running my car on the track, oil temps might be significantly higher, so I might consider a heavier oil.

But for the type of driving I do, I am convinced a 0-40 oil will protect the engine better during the crucial warm up, which if you do a lot of short trip city driving, will be a big portion of the time you are driving your car.


Calling All Engineers (And Motor-Heads) -
__________________

[Flavor 987S]

Originally Posted by Johnny Danger

Just so I understand, you feel that 50 grade oil provides better lubrication at higher operating temperatures than 40W ? Also, some of what I've read suggests that there's a benefit to using 0-5W for initial start-up over the usual 10W . Does this make sense ?

I can tell from the UOA that the 50 weight is doing it's job, because the zinc and phosphorus are lower than Red Line's content. And wear metals went down with a longer drain interval.

I think a 5 weight is better than a 0 weight because it narrows the gap to 50 and keeps the range tighter. A 0 weight would be good for a very cold climate (when my cars are stored). There are no 10 weight oils that at Porsche approved for the 986/987/996/997.

My car sees a LOT of +6,000 RPM's (shifting).

I'll post my cumulative UOA from the past 4 oil changes one day this week, when I get a chance, and you'll see the data.

Without the UOA's I'd never know that the Red Line 5W40 was a great oil, and the Mobil 5W50 appears to be as good or better.

[Flavor 987S]

Originally Posted by san rensho

The heavier weight oils made no demonstrable difference in start up clatter.

Correct. One of the reasons Porcshe revised their recommend oils list (viscosity) a few years ago and stated 0 and 5 weights. To help "quiet" some of the start up noise.

[san rensho]

Originally Posted by Flavor 987S

I can tell from the UOA that the 50 weight is doing it's job, because the zinc and phosphorus are lower than Red Line's content. And wear metals went down with a longer drain interval.

I think a 5 weight is better than a 0 weight because it narrows the gap to 50 and keeps the range tighter. A 0 weight would be good for a very cold climate (when my cars are stored). There are no 10 weight oils that at Porsche approved for the 986/987/996/997.

My car sees a LOT of +6,000 RPM's (shifting).

I'll post my cumulative UOA from the past 4 oil changes one day this week, when I get a chance, and you'll see the data.

Without the UOA's I'd never know that the Red Line 5W40 was a great oil, and the Mobil 5W50 appears to be as good or better.

From the UOAs I've done so far, M1 0-40 is by far the best. P and Z levels consistently above 1000, Moly at 90, always in the middle of the viscosity range. With Mobil 15-50, Z and P were in the 750-850 range, Moly in the 20 range and it had sheared below grade after only 1k miles. Valvoline 20-50 also had low Z, P and Moly, but stayed within viscosity grade.

But to repeat myself, the issue I see is that until you drive your car for about 1/2 hour, its not up to operating temperature, and a 0 weight oil will provide better protection during the crucial warm up period.

[jaykay]

I am using 5W40 motul 8100 x-ess. Actually, I have experienced much less lifter noise/engine clatter on start up than with 0W40 M1. Perhaps this is down to more oil film retention (due to the higher viscosity) and availability on start up. Valve train and lifter tick are are sounds that are very rare rather than a regular occurrence with 0W40. Whether this translates to reduced engine wear is another story but it sure does sound like this would be the case. If someone could direct me to the oil flow case article, it would be much appreciated.

I also track the car and only drive in summer. The thicker oil made sense to me.

[paulv]

Originally Posted by jaykay

I am using 5W40 motul 8100 x-ess. Actually, I have experienced much less lifter noise/engine clatter on start up than with 0W40 M1. Perhaps this is down to more oil film retention (due to the higher viscosity) and availability on start up. Valve train and lifter tick are are sounds that are very rare rather than a regular occurrence with 0W40. Whether this translates to reduced engine wear is another story but it sure does sound like this would be the case. If someone could direct me to the oil flow case article, it would be much appreciated.

I also track the car and only drive in summer. The thicker oil made sense to me.

I used Motul 5W-40 Xcess for 3 oil changes after the factory fill, but still had noticeable valve train noise on startup. I never used M1 0W-40 as I use that oil in the wife's MB E320 and there's always startup noise. I went with M1 5W-40 for two oil changes but had valve train noise again. I just recently went with Redline 5W-40 and the valve train noise is virtually gone. BTW, the UOAs on the Motul and M1 5W-40 oils were good, it was just the noise that bothered me.

I called Redline and they told me that their product is higher in ester than other PCMOs. Since ester is a polar molecule, it will stick to metal parts.

Regards,
paul...

[Series9]

I was keeping Pentosin 5w40 in stock for my TDI customers and then discovered that it was Porsche approved for the M96.

I'm now using it for all synthetic applications.

[Jager]

Originally Posted by paulv

I used Motul 5W-40 Xcess for 3 oil changes after the factory fill, but still had noticeable valve train noise on startup. I never used M1 0W-40 as I use that oil in the wife's MB E320 and there's always startup noise. I went with M1 5W-40 for two oil changes but had valve train noise again. I just recently went with Redline 5W-40 and the valve train noise is virtually gone. BTW, the UOAs on the Motul and M1 5W-40 oils were good, it was just the noise that bothered me.

I called Redline and they told me that their product is higher in ester than other PCMOs. Since ester is a polar molecule, it will stick to metal parts.

Regards,
paul...

OK Paul I just ordered some Redline 5W-40 I will report my experience after my next oil change.

[paulv]

Originally Posted by Jager

OK Paul I just ordered some Redline 5W-40 I will report my experience after my next oil change.

Good luck with it. I also thought about using Motul 300V, but this is essentially a racing oil and I worry about cat converter compatability. A while back I was checking RLI's oil (Renewable Lubricants) but when I called to inquire about the HTHS rating, they never really answered my question -- they gave me a long, drawn out response but since I'm not a lube engineer, I couldn't make any sense of it. They do show it as meeting ACEA A3 (1998) which has the >= 3.5cP HTHS requirement.

Regards,
paul...

[Jaak]

My engine rebuilder recommended Castrol Synted 5W40 for my Boxster. Engine was rebuilt as PO had added 4 extra liters of oil at a gas station ... she did not have a manual and read the dipstick wrong. I have used it in my 2010 F150 and it seems to run better with better gas milage. He warrants the engine and said I should not have any issues with Castrol. I am looking at upgrading to the L&N spin on oil filter kit before I put it in storage for the winter.

[thstone]

Mobil 1 10w-40 High Mileage year round in LA. Also comes in a 5w-30 for cooler climates. Strong anti-wear package is the reasoning.

[944boy]

I have been using LubroMoly Vollsynthese 5-40 and it has done very well. I will be doing another UOA on this change. 96K miles on an '05 with no leaks, no consumption, and very little start-up noise.

just my $0.02.