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Old 03-27-2008, 10:00 PM   #1
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Any one used all Che's suspension pcs?

If you have please discuss the pro and cons of these. I am going to purchase the KW V3 coilovers next week. While at it I am really thinking that for a bit more, and add all 3 of pcs. This of course will be in addition to corner balancing.

TIA
Josh

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Old 03-28-2008, 12:45 AM   #2
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Josh, I have the rear track arms (rear trailing arms), and they are really really heavy compared to the stock arms. After installing them, yes they got rid of the noise I had from the worn stock bushings/bearings, though there are some quirks that came with them. Sometimes while going over a dip/slose quickly with some decent speed, it sounds like they make a scraping noise... could be the sound of the pillowball/spherical bearings moving/and the arm slightly turning on the pivoting end, though not sure what the culprit really is.

Also, I am really wondering about the weight issue. So many times I'll read about car manufacturers highlighting their aluminum suspension... I assume to highlight the lightweight factor of the suspension... Seeing as these arms weigh so much more... by hand feel, they feel like about 3x the weight of the stock arms.

My car felt slightly Less nimble after the addition of the arms... I'm wondering though, since these are trailing arms, which I thought were meant mostly to control anti-squat, that they wouldn't affect cornering response... So I'm wondering if the less nimble feel is either 1) all in my head 2) due to the heavier weight, or 3) due to the fact that I have not yet realigned the car since, and I'm sure the alignment is slightly off now.

I am debating the addition of the front arms, and the rear toe arms, because of this weight issue. I worry that the addition of these other arms, would add more weight to the suspension, and make the car less nimble and less responsive. I noticed the other aftermarket toe arms, like TRG and Tarrett's look to be lightweight aluminum, and use half of a factory oem aluminum rod. Comparing these options versus Che's toe arms is what I'm interested in. They weigh much more and are made of Steel, not aluminum.

I'm definitely no suspension expert, so I would love to hear everyone's theories and input on this.
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Last edited by chaudanova; 03-28-2008 at 12:48 AM.
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Old 03-29-2008, 04:16 PM   #3
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Claude- That is a very interesting observation. I am installing Che's rear toe arms this week, to correct for camber/toe when lowered, and will let you know how things work for me.

Its true, car manufacturers are touting aluminum components in the suspension heavily these days, and there are improvements to be had by lowering unsprung weight.

Patrick
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Old 03-30-2008, 12:08 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmwm750
Claude- That is a very interesting observation. I am installing Che's rear toe arms this week, to correct for camber/toe when lowered, and will let you know how things work for me.

Its true, car manufacturers are touting aluminum components in the suspension heavily these days, and there are improvements to be had by lowering unsprung weight.

Patrick
Sounds good Patrick, please update us on before/after feel, and any other notes and thoughts you have regarding the install, fit, feel, quirks, etc.

Thanks!
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Old 03-30-2008, 02:14 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmwm750
there are improvements to be had by lowering unsprung weight.

Patrick
Not as much as Rotating Unsprung weight... (wheels) but it does help...
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Old 03-31-2008, 08:01 AM   #6
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WOW No one and not even a word from the sponsor?

Maybe I will not use these pcs. and just go GT3 control arms and Agency Power parts.
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Old 03-31-2008, 10:07 AM   #7
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I have the upper track arms, both front and rear and i have to say, that i find it impossible to believe that anyone would be able to notice the car being "Less nimble" with only about 7-12 more lbs. of weight added on the car.

Again i have them on the front and rear of my car and they eliminated the rattling sound and i havent noticed any other new noises as a result of using the track arms.


If you really notice a difference in handling charactoristics, i would check your alignment again.
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Old 03-31-2008, 10:40 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by CJ_Boxster
I have the upper track arms, both front and rear and i have to say, that i find it impossible to believe that anyone would be able to notice the car being "Less nimble" with only about 7-12 more lbs. of weight added on the car.

Again i have them on the front and rear of my car and they eliminated the rattling sound and i havent noticed any other new noises as a result of using the track arms.


If you really notice a difference in handling charactoristics, i would check your alignment again.
CJ, yes I did notice a slight difference in the handling characteristics of the car, feeling slightly less nimble. And no, I don't presume it to be from the addition of the 7-12 more lbs of weight added to the car itself, as you say... I could add that with some groceries in my trunk and definitely not notice anything. What I was concerned was about adding that much weight to the suspension itself, which is of course constantly moving.

So, like I said, I don't know if the culprit is the heavier arms adding weight onto the moving suspension, or if the culprit is the need to realign the car, due to the change in suspension, as I don't doubt that my toe, and perhaps even caster are slightly off now. I would try to solve the mystery by getting my alignment done right now, but I have a few more things I plan to do to the suspension and will wait after all the changes to get the alignment.

Does anyone know, from theory or first hand experience, whether adding weight to the suspension with these heavier arms, would cause a slightly slower response and adverse handling characteristics? Perhaps Insite can chime in...
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Old 03-31-2008, 10:49 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by JP-s-in st. louis
WOW No one and not even a word from the sponsor?

Maybe I will not use these pcs. and just go GT3 control arms and Agency Power parts.
Hey JP-s, the GT3 control arms and agency power parts would be replacing different arms/parts than the arms that Che offers. The "track arm" as everyone here refers to, are the rear trailing arms. The Agency power "dog bone" arms, as far as I know, are for the 996/997, and won't fit the 986, despite what the website says. Correct me if I'm wrong on that, but the rear suspension on the 986 and 996 are different, and I just do not see how one could use the dog bones on a 986.
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Some stuff for sale: M030 S 24mm front sway bar, M030 base 19.6mm rear sway bar, 996 GT3 OEM Porsche Motorsport front strut mounts monoball "camber plates"

WTB: looking for some 5-7mm spacers with extended bolts

Last edited by chaudanova; 03-31-2008 at 10:52 AM.
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Old 03-31-2008, 12:09 PM   #10
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Old 03-31-2008, 12:14 PM   #11
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you are right...great more choices..or is that more stuff to buy????
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Old 03-31-2008, 01:23 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by JP-s-in st. louis
you are right...great more choices..or is that more stuff to buy????
hahaha, a bit of both! Anyone feel free to add to this, as I don't doubt I'm missing a few, though here is what I see as available options as upgrades for the 986 in terms of suspension arms:

- Lower control arms (front & rear) --> GT3 & GT3 CUP lower control arms
- Adjustable rear Toe arms --> Che aka HardRace, TRG, Tarett, & GMG WC toe arms
- Rear Trailing arm, aka Track arm --> Che/HardRace
- Front "Tension Rod" arm --> Che/HardRace
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WTB: looking for some 5-7mm spacers with extended bolts

Last edited by chaudanova; 03-31-2008 at 01:31 PM.
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Old 04-01-2008, 05:42 PM   #13
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Well, got done with my install today, which involved Che's rear toe arms. These did allow us to get an absolutely perfect alignment, however, required some modifications to work which I'm not pleased about. The rod ends on these things are HUGE, and we had to remove some shims from the rod end, and trim the backing plates to get them to fit. Even still, there is barely enough clearance for my 18" BBS RSIIs. There is no way you could fit a 17" wheel now. All told, the added PITA factor for this cost me an extra $100 in labor on my suspension work.

All in all, I could be a bit more pleased with things.

Patrick
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Old 04-01-2008, 06:49 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by chaudanova
Does anyone know, from theory or first hand experience, whether adding weight to the suspension with these heavier arms, would cause a slightly slower response and adverse handling characteristics? Perhaps Insite can chime in...
Here you go

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unsprung_weight

Basically, the momentum involved with movement of the suspension parts in reaction to road features can work against the desired motion of the suspension, therefore, less mass, less undesired motion. Can you feel an increase in unsprung weight? It depends on the degree of increase. Does it matter? Absolutely. The tradeoff being that lighter parts are typically less resistant to bending or damage, this is definitely the case when comparing steel parts to aluminum ones.

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Old 04-01-2008, 07:10 PM   #15
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Just to add my .02 I have the Tarrret adjustable rear toe arms. The toe arms seemed lighter than OEM parts. Once I added these I was able to get my lowered suspension into OEM specs. Prior to getting the adjustable toe arms I as changing my rear tires every 5k miles. I have 8k on my rears now and they seem to have plenty of tread left.
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Old 04-01-2008, 08:45 PM   #16
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I wasn't aware of this suspension mod. Would it be pointless to add this if your car is still sports all stock suspension parts?
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Old 04-01-2008, 11:09 PM   #17
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I wasn't aware of this suspension mod. Would it be pointless to add this if your car is still sports all stock suspension parts?
Which mod are you referring to? We were discussing a few different arms on this thread so far... control arms, track arms/trailing arms, tension rods, toe arms, etc...
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Old 04-02-2008, 12:05 AM   #18
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Sorry, the adjustable control arms.
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Old 04-02-2008, 11:01 AM   #19
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Sorry, the adjustable control arms.
If by control arms, you're referring to upgrading to the GT3/GT3-CUP lower control arms, then these would allow you to play around with the camber settings to add some more camber.
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Old 04-02-2008, 04:46 PM   #20
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JP made a post earlier with a link to the agency control arms. They look promising for the high price. I'm starting to work on my suspension and researching information for parts I can add to my car that won't make the car feel unpleasant. So far, I've planned for the TRG sway bars with drop links, and the Pss9 kit. Are there any other suspension parts that I should be looking for? I don't plan to spend too much time at the track, so mostly street driving. I already have the strut and stress bars.

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