Tricky corners, how to know when to stay in 3rd and when to go into 2nd

[steved0x]

Originally Posted by jsceash

Diamond the entry to 12 this also give some extra entry speed.

That is the 2nd time I have heard the term "diamonding a corner", the first time was at Sebring a few months ago when I rode with John Gaydos from Soul Performance in his Cayman R (what a car!). He sailed into T5 way faster than I would have thought, then using the brakes he swung the back end around and then nailed the gas and rocketed out of the corner. He called that Diamonding the corner. He has tremendous car control, he was sliding through T1 and through Bishop very fast. it was crazy fun and was the last session of the day, I wish I could have jumped back in my car while it was still fresh in my mind.

Is that what you mean by Diamond the entry?

[jsceash]

Originally Posted by steved0x

That is the 2nd time I have heard the term "diamonding a corner", the first time was at Sebring a few months ago when I rode with John Gaydos from Soul Performance in his Cayman R (what a car!). He sailed into T5 way faster than I would have thought, then using the brakes he swung the back end around and then nailed the gas and rocketed out of the corner. He called that Diamonding the corner. He has tremendous car control, he was sliding through T1 and through Bishop very fast. it was crazy fun and was the last session of the day, I wish I could have jumped back in my car while it was still fresh in my mind.

Is that what you mean by Diamond the entry?

Allot of people I watch trun and hold the turn thru all of T12. Which mean you have to slow completely to your turn speed before you cut in. I try to slow enough to turn in and cut across the first rumble strip maintaining some speed. Now your headed diagonally across the track to the outside rumble strip, tap the brake set the nose and turn towards the inside exit. As soon as the the car grips hit the gas. This will shoot you out at better speed and push you too the outside exit rumble strip.

If you look at it from overhead it's squares off the turn. Light turn in, straight, finish the turn. Diamond shaped

[Topless]

Good conversation.

My basic rule is to always stay above 4k exiting a corner, nail all of the apex, and get on the gas as early as possible to lengthen the straight. I want to be at or near full throttle and unwinding at the apex so this dictates my corner technique. If on a right-hander my wheel marker is still at 3 o'clock and I am hesitating on throttle at the apex, I am doing it wrong.

Trust the data. Run one full session taking the difficult corner in 3rd, and one full session taking it in 2nd. Which method consistently rewarded higher speeds at the end of the next straight? Which method resulted in faster laps? It will almost always be the same session because higher speed at the end of the straight overcomes lower corner speeds.

Take the corner out of the corner. Cars run faster when pointed straight with tires unloaded so spend as little time as possible side loading the tires. "Squaring the corner" or "diamond the corner" mean the same thing and are a double apex method. Come in hot, turn in and brake across the corner, quickly rotate the car for a very straight apex and exit at full throttle. You give up corner speed, usually need to select 2nd, but gain by carrying more speed into and out of a corner. This does not work on most corners but a 180* like 4/5 at AAA Speedway, Star Mazda at Buttonwillow, or the bowl at Chuckwalla CW it might be your best move. Run it both ways and compare the data, then decide.

[steved0x]

Originally Posted by Topless

Good conversation.

My basic rule is to always stay above 4k exiting a corner, nail all of the apex, and get on the gas as early as possible to lengthen the straight. I want to be at or near full throttle and unwinding at the apex so this dictates my corner technique. If on a right-hander my wheel marker is still at 3 o'clock and I am hesitating on throttle at the apex, I am doing it wrong.

Trust the data. Run one full session taking the difficult corner in 3rd, and one full session taking it in 2nd. Which method consistently rewarded higher speeds at the end of the next straight? Which method resulted in faster laps? It will almost always be the same session because higher speed at the end of the straight overcomes lower corner speeds.

Take the corner out of the corner. Cars run faster when pointed straight with tires unloaded so spend as little time as possible side loading the tires. "Squaring the corner" or "diamond the corner" mean the same thing and are a double apex method. Come in hot, turn in and brake across the corner, quickly rotate the car for a very straight apex and exit at full throttle. You give up corner speed, usually need to select 2nd, but gain by carrying more speed into and out of a corner. This does not work on most corners but a 180* like 4/5 at AAA Speedway, Star Mazda at Buttonwillow, or the bowl at Chuckwalla CW it might be your best move. Run it both ways and compare the data, then decide.

If you fall below 4,000 RPM then not much is going to happen for a while, that's for sure

For me 4,000 RPM in 3rd is about 52 mph and 2nd gear at about 6,400 is about 62 (I can dig out the gear chart and get better numbers, this is from looking at my AIM data which I think has some smoothing, and the RPM is only read 2-3 times a second), so if I were to try and use that as a guide, then unless I could roll a vMin through a corner of 50 or more, then 2nd gear might be a good option.

Things to think about