"...Not gonna go an faster in this car without taking out your wallet..."

[maytag]

Originally Posted by Topless

Now it's time to look up track records for similar car at the local PCA and NASA websites. ...... If you are 1/2 second off the track record in a similar car, it might be the car. If you are 5 seconds off the track record, it's you.

We're lucky that SteD0x did it for us already, in a post yesterday:

Originally Posted by steved0x

Looks like a 2:18.252 set last year, the lap you shared in the other thread was a 2:22.54, which is (in seconds) 138.252/142.54=97% so by my metrics that is smoking fast!

That's a SPB record, so we can assume a fully-prepared car. Are you suggesting (topless) that I should be able to get within 1/2 second of this record in my 147k mile car without modifications? to me, that seems ambitious. But if you've seen that be the case, I'm all ears. Personally, I think there's still maybe 2 seconds I can find by smoothing some things out. But I don't think there's 4 seconds. Maybe I'm wrong?

Frankly, if you're telling me it's possible to get within a 1/2 second of the lap record without spending $30k to build a SPB, then that would become the MOST EXPENSIVE half-Second in the HISTORY of half-seconds. haha

Originally Posted by The Radium King

understand negative camber. you want lots of it at the track. you can get negative camber by (a) pulling in the strut tops, .... you can get over -1 just in the factory strut tower slots. notch them with a dremmel to get more. get camber plates to get in the -3 neck of the woods ..... for some reason, the cheaper coilovers come with camber plates, while the more expensive do not. i am on $1300 ksport kontrol pros and have had zero problems over 5 hard years of living, can get -3 up front with the built-in camber plates, and have rebound adjustability to move back and forth from street to track. ..... this way you can get coilovers (and ability to corner balance - good good good) and camber adjustment for the cost of just lcas otherwise.

my advice - get as much camber in the front as you can get stock - ..... get good tires - nittos - a..... do the sways - these will dramatically help with roll and maintaining contact patch, ..... do the brakes (motul rbf600, stainless lines, pagid yellow pads, gt3 cooling ducts). do reliability mods (oiling, 2nd gear, water pump, underdrive pully, etc.).

spend a year on that and you will be able to make a more informed decision on the bigger ticket items like coilovers and control arms (specifically, you'll have a better idea of whether you are building a track or compromise setup).

This advice is speaking to me this afternoon, along with some of the others here. maybe because it includes some of the direction I've been going anyway: RBF600, GT3 Cooling ducts, water pump & t-stat, UDP, etc etc.

I'm still seeing conflicting opinions on square vs staggered.

[Topless]

Originally Posted by maytag

We're lucky that SteD0x did it for us already, in a post yesterday:



That's a SPB record, so we can assume a fully-prepared car. Are you suggesting (topless) that I should be able to get within 1/2 second of this record in my 147k mile car without modifications? to me, that seems ambitious. But if you've seen that be the case, I'm all ears. Personally, I think there's still maybe 2 seconds I can find by smoothing some things out. But I don't think there's 4 seconds. Maybe I'm wrong?

Frankly, if you're telling me it's possible to get within a 1/2 second of the lap record without spending $30k to build a SPB, then that would become the MOST EXPENSIVE half-Second in the HISTORY of half-seconds. haha



This advice is speaking to me this afternoon, along with some of the others here. maybe because it includes some of the direction I've been going anyway: RBF600, GT3 Cooling ducts, water pump & t-stat, UDP, etc etc.

I'm still seeing conflicting opinions on square vs staggered.

In "similar cars" Yes you can. That means similar wt/hp, tires, and setup. An 03 Box S should be very close on the same tires and a decent setup with some camber in the front. On a long track where you can stretch your legs the 03 should be faster with higher hp. On a tight track with a lot of corners the SPB will have the edge due to better wt/grip. Right now you not in a similar car. You are camber-challenged and leaving a lot of time on the table while shredding the shoulders of your tires. Using ALL of your contact patch needs to be priority one IMO.

My base Cayman is 261 hp and on the same tires runs well with the SPB guys at Fontana, Laguna Seca, and Buttonwillow. They will get me at Chuckwalla and Streets due to tighter tracks and lighter weight. An 03 Box S and 09 Base Cayman turn very similar laps on the same tires and setup so a very good comparison.
http://fastestlaps.com/comparisons/zemohc1ti88s


I also run the exact same setup street or track. I have alignment checked and corner balanced annually and that is it. Nice even tire wear with no drivability issues at all. I don't know why you would change it unless you were running extreme camber/toe settings.


For reference, the POC historical track record for BSR (SPBOX) at AAA Speedway is Nathan Johnson at 1:55.5 on Toyo RR 40TW tires. Last April I ran a 1:55.2 on RE71r street tires. Boxster Spec track records are well within our reach once we use all of the contact patch.

[MaxD]

Here is a better source of lap records for the various track configurations at UMC. Unfortunately it doesn't tell you the make and model of car in the NASA classes.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1GsONhXO4OCIaT0Q4ecpQk3v4pVk6-_J2vR5fvb86EDQ/edit#gid=165366706[

Mark's record is from last years PCA club race and he was the only Spec Boxster. Other specs have run in GT4 past years. One big thing missing from the ClubRace site is what configuration was run for the time.

I have TTC records in my base Boxster from when the class existed. Adam Heller's GTS2 times are from an S racecar, as are Bill Noblitt's PTB times.

[maytag]

Originally Posted by MaxD

Here is a better source of lap records for the various track configurations at UMC. Unfortunately it doesn't tell you the make and model of car in the NASA classes.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1GsONhXO4OCIaT0Q4ecpQk3v4pVk6-_J2vR5fvb86EDQ/edit#gid=165366706[

Mark's record is from last years PCA club race and he was the only Spec Boxster. Other specs have run in GT4 past years. One big thing missing from the ClubRace site is what configuration was run for the time.

I have TTC records in my base Boxster from when the class existed. Adam Heller's GTS2 times are from an S racecar, as are Bill Noblitt's PTB times.

This great, Max!
So what I'm seeing then, is a LARGE disparity, between SPB (2:19.022) vs the two S racecars you described, GTS2 (2:12.341) and PTB (2:09.677)

I don't know which of those times I'd use as a gauge to compare my own largely-unmodified 'S' to. If I'm comparing my 2:22 to the SPB 2:19, I'm seeing it. If I'm comparing to the 2:12 or 2:09, then I'm gonna throw-in the towel right now.... 'cuz there ain't now way in HELL that -I- (me) can get within a stone's throw of those times with the car I'm driving now, as it is. If somebody else CAN, then yeah.... I'm not so good at this after all, huh? And all 4 of the instructors who've ridden with me this year have simply been blowing up my skirt....

That's a little demoralizing.

[Topless]

Originally Posted by maytag

This great, Max!
So what I'm seeing then, is a LARGE disparity, between SPB (2:19.022) vs the two S racecars you described, GTS2 (2:12.341) and PTB (2:09.677)

I don't know which of those times I'd use as a gauge to compare my own largely-unmodified 'S' to. If I'm comparing my 2:22 to the SPB 2:19, I'm seeing it. If I'm comparing to the 2:12 or 2:09, then I'm gonna throw-in the towel right now.... 'cuz there ain't now way in HELL that -I- (me) can get within a stone's throw of those times with the car I'm driving now, as it is. If somebody else CAN, then yeah.... I'm not so good at this after all, huh? And all 4 of the instructors who've ridden with me this year have simply been blowing up my skirt....

That's a little demoralizing.

I'd say no. Those "S" race cars probably have the same motor but are running R7 tires and are 500lbs lighter. Not a good comparison to a full weight street car on shredded shoulder street tires. From your times I agree with your instructors that you have good driving skill. Now it's time to get your tires and setup in the game.

[thstone]

Originally Posted by maytag

If I'm comparing my 2:22 to the SPB 2:19, I'm seeing it.

Perfect! Now that we have a general idea of where you stand, I agree that its time to improve the car.

I'd suggest (as others have) starting with camber (adj LCA), tires (NT-01), and brake pads (EBC Yellow or similar race/street pad). Those will make the biggest difference for the $$ invested.

If you really want to do something about the shocks, springs, and sways, then M030. Otherwise, they can wait because these are fairly big ticket items.

Also, you'll have to make some hard decisions about street drivability and comfort in regards to a racing or sport seat and harnesses vs the stock seats and seatbelts. A sport/racing seat with a 6pt harness will help keep you in the seat about a million times better than the stock seat and seatbelt, but it comes at a cost.

Its a slippery slope...

[rastta]

Originally Posted by thstone

Its a slippery slope...

Understatement of the year!

[MaxD]

In my own experience this is where data is helpful once you have a platform that doesn't change every event.

My car is basically a Spec Boxster without a cage and hard top. I had hit a wall at ~2:17/18 on Outer. Careful review of my outings showed a few track sectors where I was lifting when I shouldn't, a corners Vmin was not consistent and much higher on some laps, etc. I applied knowledge of that to my next events.

Now my personal best on Outer is 2:12.8 on A7s and I've run lots 2:14s and 15s on RRs. I ran a 2:16 and change on NT01s last Saturday with the 30-60mph gusts that day. (It was not optimal for setting fast times)

Don't be demoralized. You are right on target.