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Old 10-04-2016, 07:42 AM   #1
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Went for a big spin last weekend, unusual ABS interaction

Last weekend I had a big spin at Roebling Road Raceway. After my feeble attempt at catching it, I went both feet in - hard! And I kept them there until the car was stopped. You wouldn't know it from watching the video. I am turning right. The back end steps out and I try to catch it by steering left, but I am too slow. I see it is not going to be saved, so I go both feet in - hard! The car slides across the track backwards, and once the car has rotated enough so that I am going straight backwards, the ABS kicks in like crazy. Since the steering wheel is still turned left, the car takes a leisurely roll back across the track, ABS clicking like crazy before coming to a stop. It looked just like a scene from "You suck at racing" - where the person spins but never locks up the brakes and ends up shooting back across the track in front of everybody. Luckily for me nobody was right behind me...

So I am going to try and add a new step to "In for a spin, both feet in", I am going to try and remember to center the wheel, so if the ABS comes on like that again I won't roll back across the track.




https://youtu.be/ex41Q8B_w8o

Last edited by steved0x; 10-04-2016 at 08:07 AM.
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Old 10-04-2016, 04:08 PM   #2
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Didn't realize that the ABS worked while backing up on the track! I'll have to give it a try!
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Old 10-04-2016, 04:36 PM   #3
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Didn't realize that the ABS worked while backing up on the track! I'll have to give it a try!
It is a good cardiac workout, gets the blood pumping
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Old 10-04-2016, 07:26 PM   #4
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It looked just like a scene from "You suck at racing"...
You're definitely not alone - I have a library full of video with that title...

You are a scholar and a gentleman for posting your learning moments.
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Old 10-05-2016, 05:07 AM   #5
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It looked just like a scene from "You suck at racing" - where the person spins but never locks up the brakes and ends up shooting back across the track in front of everybody.
https://youtu.be/ex41Q8B_w8o
+1 on posting the video. Don't be too hard on yourself. That happened pretty quick, and your turn-in didn't look all that bad.

I'm signed up for the Skip Barber Advanced Car Control Clinic next week at Lime Rock, mostly so when something like this happens to me on track, I'll have some idea of what to do besides wetting my pants.

I'll post my learning moments after the class. So stand by for the videos of me in the starring role of "You Suck At Driving, In General...".

Last edited by Need_for_speed; 10-05-2016 at 05:15 AM.
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Old 10-05-2016, 05:37 AM   #6
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Thanks everybody - I love watching everybody's videos and mine are usually boring but this one had a little excitement

Good luck at the car control clinic, sounds like a lot of fun.

I would like to drive one of the Bertil Roos slide cars one day, they have a custom rear axle that steers opposite to the front wheels to let you feel what it is like when the back end goes out, but it lets you practice it at low speed. I think that would be a lot of fun.
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Old 10-08-2016, 07:28 AM   #7
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What tire setup are you running?
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Old 10-09-2016, 09:54 AM   #8
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What tire setup are you running?
Hankook R-S3, 225/45/17 in front, 255/40/17 in back.

I think it was a car setup issue, those are good tires, I've made some tweaks and going back this weekend, I am confident it is resolved
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Old 10-09-2016, 01:35 PM   #9
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[QUOTE=steved0x;512029]Last weekend I had a big spin at Roebling Road Raceway. After my feeble attempt at catching it, I went both feet in - hard! And I kept them there until the car was stopped. You wouldn't know it from watching the video. I am turning right. The back end steps out and I try to catch it by steering left, but I am too slow. I see it is not going to be saved, so I go both feet in - hard! The car slides across the track backwards, and once the car has rotated enough so that I am going straight backwards, the ABS kicks in like crazy. Since the steering wheel is still turned left, the car takes a leisurely roll back across the track, ABS clicking like crazy before coming to a stop. It looked just like a scene from "You suck at racing" - where the person spins but never locks up the brakes and ends up shooting back across the track in front of everybody. Luckily for me nobody was right behind me...

So I am going to try and add a new step to "In for a spin, both feet in", I am going to try and remember to center the wheel, so if the ABS comes on like that again I won't roll back across the track.

Quickest & best way to recover is to release the steering wheel & allow it to spin thru your hands. Every car is designed to go straight (castor) once the car straightens itself steer in the direction you want to go.
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Old 10-09-2016, 01:43 PM   #10
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Did you drop the right front first or after the car already started to rotate. I've done some dirt driving several times. The good thing is no body work.
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Old 10-09-2016, 01:47 PM   #11
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Right front went off after it rotated away from me

No body work, but (I just found it the other day) it bent up the wheel liner, popped all the plastic rivets out, moved the brake duct on the control arm, and some of the liner popped out from.the bumper. I got it all fixed up.in time for a track day Monday at Roebling that was cancelled
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Old 10-09-2016, 01:55 PM   #12
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Quickest & best way to recover is to release the steering wheel & allow it to spin thru your hands. Every car is designed to go straight (castor) once the car straightens itself steer in the direction you want to go.
That's easy for me to do on this one hairpin at a local track, for fun. At higher speeds i am going to have to work.up to.it
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Old 10-10-2016, 03:28 AM   #13
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Caster will have the opposite effect if you're going backwards. What does a shopping cart wheel do when you back up ? It flips 180, not really what you want.....
When sideways releasing the wheel will allow it to correct, drifters do it all the time.
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Old 10-10-2016, 06:30 AM   #14
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Hi steved0x,

yes, you were much to slow on the steering – think you were surprised. But on the other side: the second reaction of the back in the opposite direction is in general much harder and can be much harder to control. So it also could have ended in the woods on the left.

If the ABS kicks in and you roll backwards you have to totally go off the brake for a very short time and than hit it again. Like in the old days when you had no ABS and the wheels began to block.

Regards, Markus
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Old 10-10-2016, 02:43 PM   #15
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I've had two spins in my illustrious career (I'm still in green). The first was in the rain on mismatched tires, the second time was due to my coolant pissing out of the tube conveniently placed in front of the right rear wheel. Both times it came as a total surprise. At this point, I can hardly imagine being so poised as to " release the wheel, uh, camber, uh, off and on the brakes," uh, can the world please stop spinning?
Well, I'm better than I was. Next year I will be even better and more experienced!
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Old 10-10-2016, 03:30 PM   #16
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Yikes, spinning due to colant or something sounds scary, it would take you totally by surprise!
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Old 10-10-2016, 05:20 PM   #17
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Yeah, I was really puzzled by the spin until I saw the plume of vapour in my mirror!
I was going to make a reference to black ice but of course you wouldn't know about that!
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Last edited by NewArt; 10-10-2016 at 05:23 PM.
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Old 10-10-2016, 05:53 PM   #18
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I had a spin like that once. Similar situation in a right hand sweeper. After review, there was nothing conclusive about my input causing the spin and I was sure it was something wrong with the car.

Some months later my repair shop identified that the right rear shock was bad (leaking). I can't be 100% sure that was the cause for the spin but it seemed possible.
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