Just don't know: why is Non-S Boxster used for spec?

[Kraftwerk]

Thinking to buy a used Boxster and as longtime Porsche fan & owner : 911SC & 914, Just wondering why the "Spec" Boxster's are built from a non-S Boxster? - besides that their more plentiful and a bit less expensive to buy. I am really just wondering: Is it the that the five-speed transmission gearing is more 'fun' than the S's six-speed box? There are seperate classes for each I am guessing but which makes a 'funner' race car? And don't say: a Boxster with an RS engine, GT3 lump etc..

[RedTele58]

Originally Posted by Kraftwerk

- besides that their more plentiful and a bit less expensive to buy.

^^^ this.

By keeping the cars to 2.5L and 5-speeds and limiting the allowable modifications to the car, you get a run group that is affordable and very competitive. As soon as you start to allow modifications, rules get stretched, and the competitiveness between cars goes out the window.

And as for fun, 201 horses and a 5-speed in a Boxster on a twisty road course is about as fun as it gets. Learning how to manage energy and drive the car correctly is much more fun than just blasting down a straightaway. I look forward to the straights just so I can catch my breath and get ready to attack the corners.

[thstone]

Agree - it was because the early 2.5L cars were the first to depreciate to a point where it was economically feasible to add a limited number of modifications to produce a (relatively) affordable race car with more than enough performance to keep the fun factor high and the racing competition stiff.

There is continuing talk of a Super Spec class for the 3.2 Model S cars but it has yet to get much traction. Also in the works is a Cayman Spec class for the "other" Boxster's with a full factory roof ().

[itsnotanova]

I look forward to the day when they add 00-04 to the class. Getting harder to find low mile 97-99 engines and transmissions

[thstone]

Originally Posted by itsnotanova

Getting harder to find low mile 97-99 engines and transmissions

Really? The early 2.5's are a dime a dozen here in Cali. I bought my last long block for $1,800.

[itsnotanova]

Originally Posted by thstone

Really? The early 2.5's are a dime a dozen here in Cali. I bought my last long block for $1,800.

You guys are lucky out there. There's talk out here about somehow incorporating the 2.7's into spec because of the limited supply of 2.5's and future supply. That's part of the reason they're allowing Nikasil motors now is what I've heard.

[thstone]

Originally Posted by itsnotanova

You guys are lucky out there. There's talk out here about somehow incorporating the 2.7's into spec because of the limited supply of 2.5's and future supply. That's part of the reason they're allowing Nikasil motors now is what I've heard.

IMHO, this is being driven by shops who want to get paid $10,000 - $15,000 for a 2.5L rebuild.

In order to justify that price, they HAVE to offer something more than a pure stock rebuild, otherwise drivers will continue to simply use salvage engines. Over 30,000 2.5L cars were built - I can't believe that there aren't enough still around to supply the 200-300 Spec Boxster's in the entire US. The bottom line is that the indy shops are sick and tired of doing $3,000 engine swaps that don't make them any profit.

Thus, there is a major push by the indy repair shops to claim that 2.5's are impossible to find and thus the engines need to be rebuilt AND as long as they are being rebuilt why not modify the engines for "improved reliability".

This will not be good for Spec Boxster racing.

I say that because as soon as the rules allow engine modifications, you can be sure that shops will go just a little further and then everyone will have to run a 210rwhp "stock" engine in order to complete.

This is exactly what happened in Spec Miata.

Check out this story on how the first six finishers at the 2014 Spec Miata Championship were all found to be cheating (because they are allowed to make engine mod's and guess what - the shops "did just a little more than allowed") and the 7th place guy won the Championship. The six guys disqualified all claimed that "everyone else was doing it" and that the rule wasn't precisely clear down to the 0.001".

So Many Spec Miatas Allegedly Cheated That Seventh Place Won

P.S. Is it safe to take my tinfoil hat off now?

[steved0x]

My son is trying to get one of those Miata heads for his (non spec) Miata.... apparently they are becoming available...

[Kraftwerk]

Thanks for all the interesting answers. I suppose I need to drive both S and non-S back to back. To see which would be more suitable for me. I love my lowly 1.7 914 to sometimes power is a bit lacking over 80 mph..It is good to hear Boxster Spec racing started pure, at least, hope the sport can manage to not become a money-race.

[Topless]

Originally Posted by thstone

IMHO, this is being driven by shops who want to get paid $10,000 - $15,000 for a 2.5L rebuild.

In order to justify that price, they HAVE to offer something more than a pure stock rebuild, otherwise drivers will continue to simply use salvage engines. Over 30,000 2.5L cars were built - I can't believe that there aren't enough still around to supply the 200-300 Spec Boxster's in the entire US. The bottom line is that the indy shops are sick and tired of doing $3,000 engine swaps that don't make them any profit.

Thus, there is a major push by the indy repair shops to claim that 2.5's are impossible to find and thus the engines need to be rebuilt AND as long as they are being rebuilt why not modify the engines for "improved reliability".

This will not be good for Spec Boxster racing.

Bingo! Bullseye! You win the prize. Rules creep is the death of spec racing. Keep it simple and stay away from internal rebuild "reliability enhancements". We both know shops that have stretched the rules already and picked up a DSQ or two.

Avoid wallet racing like the plague. We saw this in yacht racing over many years and the only guys who could win consistently had a last name of Disney or Walton.

[thstone]

Originally Posted by Topless

Bingo! Bullseye! You win the prize. Rules creep is the death of spec racing. Keep it simple and stay away from internal rebuild "reliability enhancements". We both know shops that have stretched the rules already and picked up a DSQ or two.

Avoid wallet racing like the plague. We saw this in yacht racing over many years and the only guys who could win consistently had a last name of Disney or Walton.

Thanks Dave. Please help me pass on this message to the PCA. They are on the verge of allowing SPB/BSR engine mod's (cylinder re-sleeving). POC will follow whatever PCA does. Let's keep it simple and affordable.

[itsnotanova]

What do you guys think about allowing 2.7s+lbs into the class? Maybe make them run the 2.7 5 speed too? Might give the 2.5s the advantage on short tracks.

[thstone]

Originally Posted by itsnotanova

What do you guys think about allowing 2.7s+lbs into the class? Maybe make them run the 2.7 5 speed too? Might give the 2.5s the advantage on short tracks.

I like that idea better than engine mod's. The slight power difference can be mitigated by a slightly higher minimum weight so the power/weight ratio's are the same.

This also addresses a common compliant where Spec Boxster owners have trouble getting the car/driver down to min weight. If you had a heavy 2.5 car, you could swap in the 2.7 setup and be more competitive at the 2.7 min weight.