Go Back   986 Forum - for Porsche Boxster & Cayman Owners > Porsche Boxster & Cayman Forums > Boxster Racing Forum

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-23-2013, 07:35 PM   #1
Registered User
 
jb92563's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Riverside, CA
Posts: 1,663
Beginner Racing

I am wondering what is required to get into racing.

What sort of maintenance costs can i expect on a basically stock setup for the weekend PCA type racing events.

I imagine plenty of tires, oil, brake changes are required?

I figure that starting with autocross is a good way to learn and work up to DE track days and eventually the regular racing series?

Any suggestions for getting started.
__________________
"It broke because it wants to be Upgraded "
2012 Porsche Performance Driving School - SanDiego region
2001 Boxster S, Top Speed muffler, (Fred's) Mini Morimotto Projectors, Tarret UDP,
Short Shifter, Touch Screen Dual Din Radio, 03 4 Bow glass Top (DD & Auto-X since May 17,2012)
jb92563 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2013, 08:51 PM   #2
Track rat
 
Topless's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Cucamonga CA
Posts: 3,640
Garage
Hi Ray,

I recommend a combination of AX and DE days for the first season to really develop skills as a driver and working traffic. Once you qualify you can participate in Time Trials (racing against the clock) at a pretty high level without major changes to your car. When you are ready for Club racing it will be time to strip and cage your car, add fire suppression, containment seat, fire suit, add a trailer, tow vehicle, tire rack with multiple sets of wheels and tires, spares and tools etc. Each level up the ladder is significantly more expensive and requires more commitment.

Rough cost estimates based on average participants:

AX- Quality tires and alignment $1k

TT- Track prep suspension, brakes, cooling, reliability mods, safety gear, multiple sets of comp tires and spares. $10K

Club racing- Fully prepared race car with all safety gear, spares, trailer and tow vehicle. $50K

Welcome to the slippery slope.
__________________
2009 Cayman 2.9L PDK (with a few tweaks)
PCA-GPX Chief Driving Instructor
Topless is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2013, 09:06 AM   #3
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Atlanta, Ga
Posts: 112
HA! Well said topless. I'd also suggest contacting a local track and seeing if they could put you in touch with some of the local groups. Local groups sometimes rent the track for a day, and have members who can't make it at the last minute. Good cheap way to get exposed.

If you do autocross, you'll met lots of folks who'll point you in the right direction.

Be prepared - it's about as much fun as you can have with your clothes on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Topless View Post

Welcome to the slippery slope.
01SBox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2013, 11:42 AM   #4
Registered User
 
jb92563's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Riverside, CA
Posts: 1,663
I was wondering also how much your standard Boxster suffers in race induced maintenance.

I suspect the clutch would be on the list as well?

What about engine wear from running like a banshee at high RPMs so much?

Do you blow engines occasionally at the AX and TT level?

I have had the good fortune of meeting Topless and his brother who drove me as an instructor during my Autocross portion of the PCA Performance Driving School.

It was super educational and exciting and I'm planning to do more once I get a couple other projects cleared off the deck later this year.

I'm already thinking of getting another Boxster for Track use, but I'm getting ahead of myself a bit at this point.
__________________
"It broke because it wants to be Upgraded "
2012 Porsche Performance Driving School - SanDiego region
2001 Boxster S, Top Speed muffler, (Fred's) Mini Morimotto Projectors, Tarret UDP,
Short Shifter, Touch Screen Dual Din Radio, 03 4 Bow glass Top (DD & Auto-X since May 17,2012)
jb92563 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2013, 01:15 PM   #5
Track rat
 
Topless's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Cucamonga CA
Posts: 3,640
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by jb92563 View Post
I was wondering also how much your standard Boxster suffers in race induced maintenance.

I suspect the clutch would be on the list as well?

What about engine wear from running like a banshee at high RPMs so much?

Do you blow engines occasionally at the AX and TT level?

I have had the good fortune of meeting Topless and his brother who drove me as an instructor during my Autocross portion of the PCA Performance Driving School.

It was super educational and exciting and I'm planning to do more once I get a couple other projects cleared off the deck later this year.

I'm already thinking of getting another Boxster for Track use, but I'm getting ahead of myself a bit at this point.
Danny says you have natural talent for this game and all you need is seat time.

Wear and tear really depends on the driver. If you do basic reliability mods and use good technique you wont eat clutches, trans, or engines any faster than the average driver. If you do a lot of clutch dumps, over-rev downshifts, and Fast & Furious gear changes your maintenance costs will skyrocket. I know one fast driver who used to be really hard on transmissions. After killing 3 gearboxes in one season he smoothed his shifting out and maintenance costs went way down.

My car has 107K miles, 80 track days, doesn't burn oil and runs like new. I do take good care of it though.
__________________
2009 Cayman 2.9L PDK (with a few tweaks)
PCA-GPX Chief Driving Instructor
Topless is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2013, 09:45 AM   #6
Certified Boxster Addict
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 7,393
I agree with all that has been said above ^. Start out with AX and DE and work up from there. Drive your completely stock car for the first year - the only upgrades you may need are a set of performance street tires and a better set of brake pads - but only after you've worn out the stock ones.

Once you know what you're doing on the track and are near the top of your stock class, then consider moving up to time trials. Once you get there, you may want to consider modifying your car to the Boxster BSX level. This is primarily upgrading the suspension to improve track performance but I also added racing seats and harnesses. You'll also need the Boxster roll bar extension. The car will remain street legal. Then drive your BSX until you are near the top of the BSX class.

The key to all of this is seat time, seat time, seat time. You will find yourself learning about cornering techniques, braking techniques, throttle control, tire management, and just how big your hairy ones are.

And while you're getting that seat time, I found that getting some professional instruction along the way is priceless.

At the BSX level, you may also want to start investing in safety equipment because you'll be driving on high speed tracks and the dangers are there. Something to consider is a 3-layer racing suit, gloves, shoes, undershirt, and a HANS device.

If you go this far and are ready to go wheel to wheel racing, then you'll need to strip the car, install a cage, and add all of the safety equipment. My Spec Boxster will remain street legal so I can drive it to/from events but its not really meant to be a street car (no heat, no a/c, no radio, no side windows, stiff springs, etc). Here is the link to my build:

Spec Boxster Build

The best way to start is to start simple: Get a helmet and start doing a few AX's and DE's. Don't get too far ahead of yourself, it will all become clear as you progress. And before you know it, you'll be selling your furniture to buy new tires.
__________________
1999 996 C2 - sold - bought back - sold for more
1997 Spec Boxster BSR #254
1979 911 SC
POC Licensed DE/TT Instructor
thstone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2013, 06:54 PM   #7
SPB racer
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: San Antonio TX
Posts: 252
Garage
As everybody said work through the ranks.

Racing Specbox for two years and doing 6-8 weekends per year has cost me about $2-3k per weekend including all expenses, travel costs, maintenance, tires and brakes.

5 speed Gearboxes are weak. Every Specbox event at a least one person (and often 2 or 3 people) looses their gearbox. The rest of the car seems pretty much unbreakable (presuming you've done the IMS).

Have fun.
Jittsl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2013, 06:03 AM   #8
Registered User
 
jb92563's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Riverside, CA
Posts: 1,663
Lots of good, input here and that rounds out my thoughts on what to expect and a plan to get there.

Sounds like the Boxster is quite a durable racing machine even in its stock fitment.

I've been thinking of a scissor lift for the garage and it would sure come in handy to keep an eye on things and make adjustments, tire changes, brakes , maintenance etc.

Another set of rims for the race tires might also be nice to have.
__________________
"It broke because it wants to be Upgraded "
2012 Porsche Performance Driving School - SanDiego region
2001 Boxster S, Top Speed muffler, (Fred's) Mini Morimotto Projectors, Tarret UDP,
Short Shifter, Touch Screen Dual Din Radio, 03 4 Bow glass Top (DD & Auto-X since May 17,2012)
jb92563 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2013, 08:53 AM   #9
SPB racer
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: San Antonio TX
Posts: 252
Garage
If your budget is in any way limited think twice about a scissor lift. I can get my car up on four stands in about 3 minutes (quicker than you can sort out your lift) and once up I can do all the routine maintenance (engine/transmission oil, brakes, suspension) without any issues. When I do need a lift is when it's time to drop motor or gearbox and a scissor lift is little (or no) use in those circumstances. For this job you need a 2 or 4 post lift. I prefer a 4 post because I can use it for doing the most common maintenance of all - wheel alignment.

My post track schedule is up on stands for a hour or two while I do most of the maintenance and then on to my friend's 4-poster for alignment, underbody check and replacing the gearbox again.

If however you have an unlimited budget get both a 2 and a 4 - they both have their purposes.

Worry about safety gear and seat time long before your second set of tires. You can go along way into the process with one set of wheels.
Jittsl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2013, 09:01 AM   #10
Certified Boxster Addict
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 7,393
Quote:
Originally Posted by jb92563 View Post
Sounds like the Boxster is quite a durable racing machine even in its stock fitment.
The stock Boxster is not only quite durable, it has an amazing amount of performance in stock form. For the first year, the best place to invest your money is in seat time.

As your driving skills progress, you'll know when you need something more from the car and can upgrade it as you go.

The time to go to racing tires is when your car control skills will allow you to: routinely drive at the limit; overdrive the limit and intentionally slide the car; recover the slide and drive away. Slapping on r-compound race tires too early will waste money and might even make learning these skills harder.

Same thing for brake pads; initially the stock pads will be fine. Then you'll start using the brakes harder. Eventually you'll be going fast enough and braking hard enough that you'll cook the stock pads. Then its time for an upgrade. To do the upgrade earlier just costs more money.
__________________
1999 996 C2 - sold - bought back - sold for more
1997 Spec Boxster BSR #254
1979 911 SC
POC Licensed DE/TT Instructor
thstone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2013, 10:19 AM   #11
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Frederick MD
Posts: 658
Jittsl,

Can you expand on your 3 minute lift procedure? For me, the biggest hassle in working on this car is access. AFAIK there are 4 jack points. Ho do you jack all 4 corners of a box in 3 minutes and place jack stands in the areas where you are using a Jack?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jittsl View Post
If your budget is in any way limited think twice about a scissor lift. I can get my car up on four stands in about 3 minutes (quicker than you can sort out your lift) and once up I can do all the routine maintenance (engine/transmission oil, brakes, suspension) without any issues. When I do need a lift is when it's time to drop motor or gearbox and a scissor lift is little (or no) use in those circumstances. For this job you need a 2 or 4 post lift. I prefer a 4 post because I can use it for doing the most common maintenance of all - wheel alignment.

My post track schedule is up on stands for a hour or two while I do most of the maintenance and then on to my friend's 4-poster for alignment, underbody check and replacing the gearbox again.

If however you have an unlimited budget get both a 2 and a 4 - they both have their purposes.

Worry about safety gear and seat time long before your second set of tires. You can go along way into the process with one set of wheels.
shadrach74 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2013, 11:13 AM   #12
Rennzenn
 
j.fro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Virginia
Posts: 1,355
Garage
For the quick lift procedure, start by lifting at the right rear lift point and get a stand under the right front. Repeat on the left side and the front is in the air. Then I lift at the center rear and place both rear stands either under the lift points in front of the wheels oR under the diagonal crossmembers, depending on where I need to work.

And for the OP, last year I did 20 AX events. Here's the rough budget:
20 entry fees @ $35= $700
20 140 mile round trips = $560
2 sets of tires @ $1000= $2000
2 oil changes @ $100= $200
Incidentals= $250
Total= $3710

Pretty cheap for a solid year of auto racing. Boat racers spend that much on Advil!
j.fro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2013, 03:18 PM   #13
SPB racer
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: San Antonio TX
Posts: 252
Garage
I do almost the same as jfro but my process only requires 2 raises of the jack. Either will be fine. You need I jack and 4 stands.

1) Lift centre rear (i go straight under the aluminum section that supports the rear of the skid plate) and place stand under each rear jack point.
2) Raise left or right side at jack point and place jack stands under front cross members on both sides just inside the rear of the front wheels.

RE $3710 for 20 AXs. The other way of looking at that is costing $3710 for 2 hours of track time (assuming 6 x 1 minute runs per AX). That works out expensive compared to my $2-3k weekends which give as much as 4hrs track time each.


And before you all start I'm joking!!!!!!

Laurie

Last edited by Jittsl; 06-26-2013 at 03:21 PM.
Jittsl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2013, 09:47 PM   #14
Registered User
 
Ashtonraleigh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Rensselaer NY, NY 12144, United States
Posts: 1
I hope the maintenance does not rise up but it should be well maintained...
__________________
http://www.patentsusa.com/softwarepatents.html
Ashtonraleigh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2013, 11:59 AM   #15
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Montreal QC Canada
Posts: 222
I guys!

I read this thread and don't understand all terms like AX DE etc...
Do you have a link to explain what AX and DE means with the car specs ?

Thank you!
__________________
2003 Boxster S
The French Dude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2013, 12:07 PM   #16
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Socal
Posts: 560
Ax = autocross
De = driver education .

Learn more here Porsche Club of America | San Diego Region
On the right hand side above the "log in" section ...
Ian c is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2013, 12:12 PM   #17
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Montreal QC Canada
Posts: 222
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian c View Post
Ax = autocross
De = driver education .

Learn more here Porsche Club of America | San Diego Region
On the right hand side above the "log in" section ...
Thank you !
__________________
2003 Boxster S
The French Dude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2015, 08:48 PM   #18
Outlivin' the Dean.
 
JeremyConnors's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: LA, Ca
Posts: 10
Thumbs up Finally, someone breaks down how to go about racing our Boxsters from the start.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thstone View Post
I agree with all that has been said above ^. Start out with AX and DE and work up from there. Drive your completely stock car for the first year - the only upgrades you may need are a set of performance street tires and a better set of brake pads - but only after you've worn out the stock ones.

Once you know what you're doing on the track and are near the top of your stock class, then consider moving up to time trials. Once you get there, you may want to consider modifying your car to the Boxster BSX level. This is primarily upgrading the suspension to improve track performance but I also added racing seats and harnesses. You'll also need the Boxster roll bar extension. The car will remain street legal. Then drive your BSX until you are near the top of the BSX class.

The key to all of this is seat time, seat time, seat time. You will find yourself learning about cornering techniques, braking techniques, throttle control, tire management, and just how big your hairy ones are.

And while you're getting that seat time, I found that getting some professional instruction along the way is priceless.

At the BSX level, you may also want to start investing in safety equipment because you'll be driving on high speed tracks and the dangers are there. Something to consider is a 3-layer racing suit, gloves, shoes, undershirt, and a HANS device.

If you go this far and are ready to go wheel to wheel racing, then you'll need to strip the car, install a cage, and add all of the safety equipment. My Spec Boxster will remain street legal so I can drive it to/from events but its not really meant to be a street car (no heat, no a/c, no radio, no side windows, stiff springs, etc). Here is the link to my build:

Spec Boxster Build

The best way to start is to start simple: Get a helmet and start doing a few AX's and DE's. Don't get too far ahead of yourself, it will all become clear as you progress. And before you know it, you'll be selling your furniture to buy new tires.
Late to the game, so to speak, and happy to have the "rules" explained so thoroughly.
JeremyConnors is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2015, 12:07 PM   #19
Certified Boxster Addict
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 7,393
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeremyConnors View Post
Late to the game, so to speak, and happy to have the "rules" explained so thoroughly.
Glad that it helped.

If you're in LA, come out and say hi at the PCA Festival of Speed in April at AutoClub Speedway in Fontana. Its a great event with lots of time trials and club racing.
__________________
1999 996 C2 - sold - bought back - sold for more
1997 Spec Boxster BSR #254
1979 911 SC
POC Licensed DE/TT Instructor
thstone is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -8. The time now is 02:38 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2018 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page