Yes, the level of competition in Boxster Spec is continually increasing. Track records continue to be broken running the same equipment spec. Lap times that used to put a driver in the Top 5 are barely middle of the pack now. When I first started racing, Boxster Spec was kind of a "starter" class, now its the class with biggest fields and the most competitive driving. Often GT class drivers will rent a SPB to race with us and they end up 4th-6th. The level of competition is really challenging.
Thanks, I was doing my best! And I assume that all of my competitors are doing the same. Starts are a great opportunity to make up a few positions and sometimes what looks like the perfect opportunity ultimately isn't so perfect. To grow as a driver, you have to try something new. We're all trying to improve our racecraft so I try to cut everyone a lot of slack and hope that they will cut me the same slack when the time comes. Racing is an incredibly humbling experience.
Yeah to me it looks like 318 came down on you and touched while you were constant with your direction, and at 3:30 when you went for the inside pass and got fully beside him? it looked like he came down and chopped you and you had to back out of the pass. Or did you have to slow due to holding the inside tighter line and not getting the full radius?
...and at 3:30 when you went for the inside pass and got fully beside him? it looked like he came down and chopped you and you had to back out of the pass. Or did you have to slow due to holding the inside tighter line and not getting the full radius?
Let me start by saying that competitive racing is pretty aggressive and none of us are professional so most of our moves have good intent but might not be perfectly executed.
With that being said, I don't think that I got quite alongside/door-to-door with the 318; I was still a bit behind him at turn in. Not a lot behind, but enough to matter. It would have been better if I had been able to get truly alongside or just a bit ahead of him at turn in. Regardless, I had a good run on him so I kind of stuffed my nose in there anyway (its aggressive) to see what he would do.
And he did exactly what he should do and that is drive his line and not just give me the inside line. So I don't think that he chopped me at all. He was ahead at turn in and his expected line was to come down aggressively towards the apex. I knew that and he knew that. So, rather than force the issue, after his initial move towards the apex, I backed out to avoid him and he actually opened up his line to avoid me.
Since I was on the inside and momentarily lifted, that killed my momentum whereas he was able to roll through the corner faster on the outside and was a few car lengths ahead of me after corner exit.
Aggression AND cooperation on the part of both drivers goes a long way to create a great racing experience. Without much aggression (or intensity or whatever you want to call it), all you have left is cooperation and that is more like time trialing. Conversely, aggression without cooperation will result in chaos and damaged cars. Put both together and it can be an amazing experience.
Also, I have raced side by side with Branimir in the 318 on many occasions and we both know and trust each other.
Quote:
Originally Posted by steved0x
... That looks intense!
The level of intensity is almost impossible to explain.
It's also one of the most rewarding feelings in the world. On most days, I can't believe that I actually get to do this.
__________________
1999 996 C2 - sold - bought back - sold for more
1997 Spec Boxster BSR #254
1979 911 SC
POC Licensed DE/TT Instructor
@GH - Funny, I inquired w/ thstone last week regarding same. Told me $640 but suspect he'll let go to you now though for $565.
LOL - Nice job insulting the guy then asking for a favor...
There is a 12% group buy discount for everyone here on the forum. I assume that is why the price is lower. Just type in "986forum" into the discount code box at checkout.
__________________
1999 996 C2 - sold - bought back - sold for more
1997 Spec Boxster BSR #254
1979 911 SC
POC Licensed DE/TT Instructor
This thread was started to tell the story of how anyone could go from Boxster owner to Boxster racer. It's been an incredible journey and I really do appreciate all of the support from everyone here at the 986Forum.
I'm writing this from a hotel since I'll be racing at Buttonwillow this weekend!
Racing at Buttonwillow last weekend was great! I ran mid-pack in all three races but there were 20-some Boxsters so lots of competition all over the track. I had some epic battles and posted my best times ever (I still have a lot of work to do on that track but I'm seeing improvement every time I race there).
Here is a short video clip from the good folks at CaliPhotography to give you an idea of what it all looks like as we head into Turn 1...
__________________
1999 996 C2 - sold - bought back - sold for more
1997 Spec Boxster BSR #254
1979 911 SC
POC Licensed DE/TT Instructor
Thanks for sharing Tom. Quick question - I see an early 911 and a 924 or 944 in that otherwise Spec Boxster race. I could see them being allowed to go out on the track but not part of the competition, but couldn't they also disrupt the competition if they are being lapped or multiple cars are trying to pass them? Asking as an ignorant non-racer!
Quote:
Originally Posted by thstone
Racing at Buttonwillow last weekend was great! I ran mid-pack in all three races but there were 20-some Boxsters so lots of competition all over the track. I had some epic battles and posted my best times ever (I still have a lot of work to do on that track but I'm seeing improvement every time I race there).
Here is a short video clip from the good folks at CaliPhotography to give you an idea of what it all looks like as we head into Turn 1...
With that being said, I don't think that I got quite alongside/door-to-door with the 318; I was still a bit behind him at turn in. Not a lot behind, but enough to matter. It would have been better if I had been able to get truly alongside or just a bit ahead of him at turn in. Regardless, I had a good run on him so I kind of stuffed my nose in there anyway (its aggressive) to see what he would do.
And he did exactly what he should do and that is drive his line and not just give me the inside line. So I don't think that he chopped me at all. He was ahead at turn in and his expected line was to come down aggressively towards the apex. I knew that and he knew that. So, rather than force the issue, after his initial move towards the apex, I backed out to avoid him and he actually opened up his line to avoid me.
Since I was on the inside and momentarily lifted, that killed my momentum whereas he was able to roll through the corner faster on the outside and was a few car lengths ahead of me after corner exit.
yessir, as taught in race school - person ahead at turn-in gets to maintain the racing line and other guy has to get out of the way. not sure about where you run, but 'dive bombing' is frowned upon up here (ie, late braking at turn-in to gain position).
Thanks for sharing Tom. Quick question - I see an early 911 and a 924 or 944 in that otherwise Spec Boxster race. I could see them being allowed to go out on the track but not part of the competition, but couldn't they also disrupt the competition if they are being lapped or multiple cars are trying to pass them? Asking as an ignorant non-racer!
Mixed class fields are very common (in fact I have never raced only SPB, even at COTA with 36 SPBs, we had a 65 car field) -- technically you are only racing within your class.
You are gridded based on lap times, which will typically congregate like cars together.
But it is not unusual for the classes to be mixed even at grid. Faster drivers of a slower class are often rear to mid pack of the next class up. This can create some interesting dynamics where
"slower cars" are side by side racing with their class, with faster cars who are also racing. Usually after a few laps, this sorts itself out.
During sprints, lapping typically only occurs with the fastest cars in a run group -- and that can have issues is folks don't play nicely, but you learn how to be lapped (or lap) and without significantly affecting either lap times. However, using traffic to your advantage is just part of the racing tool chest.
Mixed class fields are very common (in fact I have never raced only SPB, even at COTA with 36 SPBs, we had a 65 car field) -- technically you are only racing within your class.
You are gridded based on lap times, which will typically congregate like cars together.
But it is not unusual for the classes to be mixed even at grid. Faster drivers of a slower class are often rear to mid pack of the next class up. This can create some interesting dynamics where
"slower cars" are side by side racing with their class, with faster cars who are also racing. Usually after a few laps, this sorts itself out.
During sprints, lapping typically only occurs with the fastest cars in a run group -- and that can have issues is folks don't play nicely, but you learn how to be lapped (or lap) and without significantly affecting either lap times. However, using traffic to your advantage is just part of the racing tool chest.
(novice PCA racer, joe average endurance chump)
Mike
In fact in my NOLA Sprint 2 race, it was gridded by the Sprint 1 race times. I had some fuel relay issues, so my car would cut in/out at times -- so my gridding was behind some 944s. Somehow, probably same mechanical issues, a GT3 was gridded behind me. He passed me on the start but I tucked behind him through some slower sections knowing that he'd "push" open a path that I could slip stream behind him -- which is what happened -- unfortunately, the point where he broke through, I couldn't accelerate to keep on his bumper, and the door closed before I could get through. So much for good plans...
Thank you. I assumed that the Spec Boxster class was so popular it would always only be a single class race.
Quote:
Originally Posted by seningen
Mixed class fields are very common (in fact I have never raced only SPB, even at COTA with 36 SPBs, we had a 65 car field) -- technically you are only racing within your class.
You are gridded based on lap times, which will typically congregate like cars together.
But it is not unusual for the classes to be mixed even at grid. Faster drivers of a slower class are often rear to mid pack of the next class up. This can create some interesting dynamics where
"slower cars" are side by side racing with their class, with faster cars who are also racing. Usually after a few laps, this sorts itself out.
During sprints, lapping typically only occurs with the fastest cars in a run group -- and that can have issues is folks don't play nicely, but you learn how to be lapped (or lap) and without significantly affecting either lap times. However, using traffic to your advantage is just part of the racing tool chest.
Thanks for sharing Tom. Quick question - I see an early 911 and a 924 or 944 in that otherwise Spec Boxster race. I could see them being allowed to go out on the track but not part of the competition, but couldn't they also disrupt the competition if they are being lapped or multiple cars are trying to pass them? Asking as an ignorant non-racer!
Quote:
Originally Posted by seningen
Mixed class fields are very common (in fact I have never raced only SPB, even at COTA with 36 SPBs, we had a 65 car field) -- technically you are only racing within your class.
You are gridded based on lap times, which will typically congregate like cars together.
But it is not unusual for the classes to be mixed even at grid. Faster drivers of a slower class are often rear to mid pack of the next class up. This can create some interesting dynamics where
"slower cars" are side by side racing with their class, with faster cars who are also racing. Usually after a few laps, this sorts itself out.
During sprints, lapping typically only occurs with the fastest cars in a run group -- and that can have issues is folks don't play nicely, but you learn how to be lapped (or lap) and without significantly affecting either lap times. However, using traffic to your advantage is just part of the racing tool chest.
Mike
Good question!
Mike provided a great response but I'll expand on that further because the POC and PCA do things differently.
As Mike said, the PCA grids the race start based on lap time and not class. Thus, all of the classes are mixed together.
In this format, you "race" who ever is around you regardless of class. This makes for some interesting racing because your car might be faster in certain sections of the track and another car that posts similar overall lap times can be faster in other parts of the track.
I have often been "stuck" behind a higher horsepower car that corners slower so I catch up and get held up in the corners but then lose ground on the straights. Again, as Mike said, learning to deal with this is part of racing and eventually it all kind of works out.
The POC places SCR (Spec Carrera Racer which is like Spec 911), Spec Boxster, and the slower GT5, GT-6, and GT-7 cars into our own race and grids by lap time within each class. This means that the SCR's are all gridded together first, then comes all of the Spec Boxster's, and then GT-5, GT-6, and GT-7 brings up the rear of the field.
But more importantly, the POC does a SPLIT START with the SCR's typically starting first with the Spec Boxster's starting about 1/3 of a lap behind the SCR's. This means that the Starter throws two green flags; one to start the SCR race and a second green flag to start the Spec Boxster/GT5,6,7 race.
Eventually, the fastest SCR's will lap most of the Spec Boxster field but it allows for tight racing within your class for about 3/4 of a race. This makes for very exciting wheel to wheel racing within a class.
Now, in this specific race where the video was shot, the SCR's started at the back of the Spec Boxster field (sort of like inverting the field). That is why you see 911's and 944's behind 986's at the start.
If Spec Boxster continues to grow, I can envision a time when Spec Boxster will have their own dedicated race without any other classes on the track.
Hope this helps.
__________________
1999 996 C2 - sold - bought back - sold for more
1997 Spec Boxster BSR #254
1979 911 SC
POC Licensed DE/TT Instructor
It was a great help Tom, thanks for the explanation. (Especially for a guy like me who has to keep giving others passing signals in HPDE!)
That is a skill that never goes away! I often give cars that are substantially faster (like the SCR cars), a point by so they know to go ahead and take a corner. This helps them get by quickly and helps me to maintain my momentum so I don't lose ground on the other Spec Boxster's. Then I'll get on the SCR's bumper and try to let them drag me along to a couple of fast corners before they pull away.
__________________
1999 996 C2 - sold - bought back - sold for more
1997 Spec Boxster BSR #254
1979 911 SC
POC Licensed DE/TT Instructor
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