Swapping engines

[LoneWolfGal]

Originally Posted by Starter986

I'm curious... and correct me if I'm wrong... but...

Are you considering putting in the OEM bearing... and isn't that the part (OEM) that is subject to failure?

No, I'm not, and yes, it is. I'm probably going to cough up $999 for LN's ceramic-hybrid bearing, which is supposed to be a significant improvement over the OEM steel bearing, although LN has a $100 coupon available to purchasers of their Retrofit bearings, so I can get it for $899.

As an aside... is Sunset ripping people off? The unsuspecting ones?

You be the judge. LN's price for their IMS Solution: $1899. Sunset Porsche Parts' price for LN's IMS Solution: $4412.82

[LoneWolfGal]

Again, when I contacted Sunset, the response came from Porsche Beaverton. However, I've since learned that Sunset is based in Florida, so I'm confused about the relationship. It was my understanding that Porsche offers its own ceramic-hybrid bearing after I read this at LN's site:

"Porsche chose to release their own IMS bearing replacement kit using a sealed 6204 ceramic hybrid ball bearing, with 52100 steel races and sintered silicon nitride balls. This came a full decade after LN Engineering publicly released its first IMS Retrofit kit, using the same ceramic hybrid ball bearing technology Porsche eventually chose to utilize with their own bearing replacement."

Sunset is reputed to sell OEM parts, so that's why I contacted then about the alleged OEM ceramic-hybrid bearing.

Perhaps JFP can shed some light.

[LoneWolfGal]

Originally Posted by elgyqc

Now for we (or some of us) who live in the real world...
https://www.123bearing.com/bearing-housing/deep-groove-bearing/double-row/bd20-17-a-ddua17nx01-nsk#container-tech-schema

Grant, I understand you installed one of these after removing its seals, correct?

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by LoneWolfGal

Again, when I contacted Sunset, the response came from Porsche Beaverton. However, I've since learned that Sunset is based in Florida, so I'm confused about the relationship. It was my understanding that Porsche offers its own ceramic-hybrid bearing after I read this at LN's site:

"Porsche chose to release their own IMS bearing replacement kit using a sealed 6204 ceramic hybrid ball bearing, with 52100 steel races and sintered silicon nitride balls. This came a full decade after LN Engineering publicly released its first IMS Retrofit kit, using the same ceramic hybrid ball bearing technology Porsche eventually chose to utilize with their own bearing replacement."

Sunset is reputed to sell OEM parts, so that's why I contacted then about the alleged OEM ceramic-hybrid bearing.

Perhaps JFP can shed some light.

First of all, you are confusing Sunset Porsche (Beaverton OR) with Suncoast Porsche (Sarasota FL), which are two entirely different businesses.

Originally, Porsche only offered a replacement all steel IMS bearing and shaft assembly that replicated what the car left the factory with, and which was frightfully expensive and no better than what you had to begin with and required complete disassembly of the engine to replace it. When that didn't sell, and some of the dealers started screaming, or simply ignoring PCNA edict that you cannot change the bearing only and some went as far as using the LN products and procedures without the factory's permission, Porsche parts went to the ceramic hybrid bearing that LN was having made to their specifications, resulting in the Porsche NA parts system having to pay a fee to obtain the bearing, which was added to the usual nosebleed markup you find in their parts system. So much like the plethora of VW and Audi parts that are interchangeable and way cheaper than those that come in the Porsche box, Porsche started offering what they saw as the best alternative to the factory parts, but at ridiculous prices.

So, after belittling and denying the R&D development of a former helicopter mechanic working out of a converted chicken coop in the woods of GA, and a very creative machinist with a small machine shop in IL, the almighty elves in the Black Forest came to realize that they both had the optimum IMS bearing fix procedures and parts, now making the elves customers of these two guys. Pure automotive karma............

[LoneWolfGal]

This might be a naive question, but I have yet to come across an answer: Since double-row bearings are much more reliable than their single-row counterparts, can a single-row bearing and spacer be replaced with a double-row bearing?

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by LoneWolfGal

This might be a naive question, but I have yet to come across an answer: Since double-row bearings are much more reliable than their single-row counterparts, can a single-row bearing and spacer be replaced with a double-row bearing?

No, not with the factory width dual row as the two IMS shafts were different and required different size bearings. LN does have a dual row hybrid replacement for the factory single row which uses offset ball placements to keep the overall size the same as the single row so it will fit the shaft correctly. This LN product does require some specialized tooling for the installation however.

[LoneWolfGal]

Originally Posted by JFP in PA

First of all, you are confusing Sunset Porsche (Beaverton OR) with Suncoast Porsche (Sarasota FL), which are two entirely different businesses.

D'OH! Well, at least I got the "Sun" part right. Thanks for the clarification about the bearings.

[LoneWolfGal]

Originally Posted by JFP in PA

This LN product does require some specialized tooling for the installation however.

Double D'OH!

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by LoneWolfGal

Double D'OH!

The tool required for this bearing is called the Faultless Installation Tool, which in reality is simply the best installation tooling for any type of IMS retrofit; but because of the unique design of the dual row LN replacement for the factory single row, it is the ONLY tool that will correctly install it without doing any damage. I literally got rid of my original IMS installation tooling after the Faultless came out, it is simply that good a tool and we use it on everything. LN rents them.

[JFP in PA]

https://youtu.be/f3DPE3epPtQ

[Gilles]

Originally Posted by JFP in PA

The tool required for this bearing is called the Faultless Installation Tool, LN rents them.

JFP, these are great news for the people that would be using the installation tool only once, because the tool looks pricey..

PS: Can't wait to see the pictures that LoneWolfGal will post of her complete and successful journey :-)
.

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by Gilles

JFP, these are great news for the people that would be using the installation tool only once, because the tool looks pricey..

PS: Can't wait to see the pictures that LoneWolfGal will post of her complete and successful journey :-)
.

They are not cheap, the basic tool is nearly $800, but like Porsche's beautiful RMS tooling, this was designed for the professional market and why LN rents them; the average DIYer would never buy one.

[jrj3rd]

Originally Posted by LoneWolfGal

No, I"m not, and yes, it is. I'm probably going to cough up $999 for LN's ceramic-hybrid bearing, which is supposed to be a significant improvement over the OEM steel bearing, although LN has a $100 coupon available to purchasers of their Retrofit bearings, so I can get it for $899.

Go to Ebay and make them the $1700 offer for the Solution. If you are willing to lay out $900 for just a bearing bite the bullet and get a permanent solution. Remember the $900 bearing is a 60K mile part and then calls for replacement. You stated earlier this is a keeper car..... Cry once.

[elgyqc]

Originally Posted by LoneWolfGal

Grant, I understand you installed one of these after removing its seals, correct?

Yes. One only removes the outer (rear) seal. This resolves one of the problems with the original bearing... the seal leaking enough to wash the grease out of the bearing but not enough to allow oil back in. Fuller explanations are available elsewhere.

[piper6909]

Originally Posted by jrj3rd

Go to Ebay and make them the $1700 offer for the Solution. If you are willing to lay out $900 for just a bearing bite the bullet and get a permanent solution. Remember the $900 bearing is a 60K mile part and then calls for replacement. You stated earlier this is a keeper car..... Cry once.

You assume that with the solution these engines are bulletproof. They're not. Like many other engines, they can become a heap of useless metal from several causes, including connecting rod bolt failure, cylinders cracking and D-chunking.

Even at $1700, the "solution" still costs about half of what you would pay for a replacement engine. And if she wants LN to honor their warranty, she'll have to have it installed by a "professional" which makes the total cost even higher.

[LoneWolfGal]

Can't wait to see the pictures that LoneWolfGal will post of her complete and successful journey :-).

You and me both, Gilles. By the way, I just bought a new 1/2" impact wrench, which will be just the ticket for the motor mounts. It's a SPiCiMOMO, the finest name in Chinese impact wrenches owned by me. For $79 the SPiCiMOMO is a spicy mofo.

[Homeoboxter]

Originally Posted by elgyqc

Now for we (or some of us) who live in the real world...
https://www.123bearing.com/bearing-housing/deep-groove-bearing/double-row/bd20-17-a-ddua17nx01-nsk#container-tech-schema

This is a great replacement for the factory dual row, because it's essentially the same, and IMHO is a better design than the hybrid replacements. But it won't work for the IMS that's designed for the single row bearing because simply there's no room for that. So, most of the 2.7 and 3.2 5-chain Boxsters are out. And, you can't swap the IMS either because the chain sprocket is different.

[LoneWolfGal]

Originally Posted by elgyqc

Yes. One only removes the outer (rear) seal. This resolves one of the problems with the original bearing... the seal leaking enough to wash the grease out of the bearing but not enough to allow oil back in. Fuller explanations are available elsewhere.

So it's the outer part of the bearing that's exposed to oil and not the inner part? That's counterintuitive to me, but I have yet to remove the bearing from the new engine.

[Homeoboxter]

Originally Posted by LoneWolfGal

So it's the outer part of the bearing that's exposed to oil and not the inner part? That's counterintuitive to me, but I have yet to remove the bearing from the new engine.

In fact, both sides are exposed, but the inner meets used/trapped oil within the shaft, while the outer side gets relatively fresh oil from the sump. In that sense it's better to remove the outer seal. On the other hand, if you remove both seals (obviously this can only be done if you extract the bearing and install a new one) the oil can go freely through the bearing and won't get trapped in there.

[pilot4fn]

Originally Posted by Homeoboxter

This is a great replacement for the factory dual row, because it's essentially the same, and IMHO is a better design than the hybrid replacements. But it won't work for the IMS that's designed for the single row bearing because simply there's no room for that. So, most of the 2.7 and 3.2 5-chain Boxsters are out. And, you can't swap the IMS either because the chain sprocket is different.

Another that is a challenge on this othervise a very good bearing is, that I have not yet seen anyplace you could order the lockign ring belonging to the bearing groove (pr snapring) to keep the bearing in place - or have I just missed it?
The info I got is that the snapring should not be re-used.