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-   -   Swapping engines (http://986forum.com/forums/boxster-general-discussions/86311-swapping-engines.html)

LoneWolfGal 12-19-2024 06:59 PM

JFP, I wasn't surprised to see cam chain wear pads on your list. I had just watched Jake Raby explain why replacing them is necessary, and he showed exactly how to do it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocntYwozZBY

I hadn't counted on having to do something quite so invasive to this new engine. However, excessive camshaft deviation due to worn wear pads is mega-undesirable, and the new, improved material they're using in modern wear pads sounds like the answer. The procedure requires special tools, to hold the cams in place, etc. Where do you suggest I obtain them?

JFP in PA 12-20-2024 06:33 AM

Baum Tools and LN both sell them; you can also often find used kits on flea bay. With the cam covers off, it is also a good time for new plug tubes and orings.

Gilles 12-20-2024 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoneWolfGal (Post 664930)
JFP, I wasn't surprised to see cam chain wear pads on your list. I had just watched Jake Raby explain why replacing them is necessary, and he showed exactly how to do it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocntYwozZBY

I hadn't counted on having to do something quite so invasive to this new engine, However, excessive camshaft deviation due to worn wear pads is mega-undesirable, and the new, improved material they're using in modern wear pads sounds like the answer. The procedure requires special tools, to hold the cams in place, etc. Where do you suggest I obtain them?

LoneWolfGal, I have the cam locking tool set, I will send it to you if you pay the return shipping after using it, it is a pretty small box (not heavy) :-)

LoneWolfGal 12-20-2024 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gilles (Post 664935)
LoneWolfGal, I have the cam locking tool set, I will send it to you if you pay the return shipping after using it, it is a pretty small box (not heavy) :-)

Glad I checked the forum tonight! Gilles, I gratefully accept your kind offer. I will send you a private message tomorrow to nail down the logistics. Another member has also offered to loan me his IMS extraction kit. I can't find the words to express how much I appreciate such generosity. Getting the new engine updated and ready for the swap will be due in large part to your and his benevolence. Many thanks!

LoneWolfGal 12-27-2024 07:31 PM

Looks like I'll be doing a lot of preventative wrenching on the new engine before I put it in the car. It's now dangling from my cherry-picker hoist, and I can't work on it there (because I'm not nuts). I want the engine to be elevated, accessible, and secure. Naturally, I considered buying an engine stand, which could provide all those qualities. I've used them and they're great. But I've decided a $212 half-ton hydraulic lift table would be a more versatile solution. Besides providing a platform for working on the engine, it might come in handy when dropping the old engine and raising the new one into place. The clincher: It has a Premium Integrated Hydraulic Pump! Top that.

http://986forum.com/forums/uploads02...1735351644.jpg

piper6909 12-28-2024 06:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoneWolfGal (Post 665053)
Looks like I'll be doing a lot of preventative wrenching on the new engine before I put it in the car. It's now dangling from my cherry-picker hoist, and I can't work on it there (because I'm not nuts). I want the engine to be elevated, accessible, and secure. Naturally, I considered buying an engine stand, which could provide all those qualities. I've used them and they're great. But I've decided a $212 half-ton hydraulic lift table would be a more versatile solution. Besides providing a platform for working on the engine, it might come in handy when dropping the old engine and raising the new one into place. The clincher: It has a Premium Integrated Hydraulic Pump! Top that.

Sounds like a solid choice. An engine stand has its advantages, like being able to flip the engine over, but one big disadvantage: no access to the back of the motor (RMS, IMSB, etc.). But if you find a cheap one on Cragslist, they are still nice to have, especially if you think you'll doing other cars. If not, you could always resell it for the same amount you paid, if you get it at the right price. I've seen them sell for $10-$100. At those prices, why not have both? I think it's well-worth it.

LoneWolfGal 12-28-2024 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by piper6909 (Post 665068)
Sounds like a solid choice. An engine stand has its advantages, like being able to flip the engine over, but one big disadvantage: no access to the back of the motor (RMS, IMSB, etc.). But if you find a cheap one on Cragslist, they are still nice to have, especially if you think you'll doing other cars. If not, you could always resell it for the same amount you paid, if you get it at the right price. I've seen them sell for $10-$100. At those prices, why not have both? I think it's well-worth it.

Yes, I'd like to also have an engine stand for this project, but I'm pinching pennies so that I can buy all the parts I'll need to make the new engine run as smoothly and be as trouble free as possible. I haven't totaled up the expenditure yet, but I have a feeling it will make my hair stand on end.

Newsguy 12-28-2024 10:34 PM

The lift table is great, but a little awkward due to the handle. I had to detach it to clear the rear structure while setting the engine.

LoneWolfGal 12-29-2024 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Newsguy (Post 665074)
The lift table is great, but a little awkward due to the handle. I had to detach it to clear the rear structure while setting the engine.

I watched a video in which the handle had to be detached due to the length of the engine and transmission. Not a big deal. The table is 30" long and 19" wide, so there's some overhang for sure.

-30-

LoneWolfGal 01-06-2025 03:20 PM

Waiting for my 1100 lb. hydraulic lift table to arrive. Until then, the engine is dangling from the engine crane. I'm putting the time to good use, studying videos about replacing the IMS bearing, cam chain wear pads, etc. A kind and generous forum member loaned me his official LN Engineering bearing extractor kit, which arrived Friday, so I'm all set in that dept. The machining of the kit's components is impressive and reflects well on LN. I won't be able to buy the IMS bearing itself until next month due to budgetary constraints. I guess buying that Carrera GT will also have to wait.

LoneWolfGal 01-09-2025 06:59 PM

The first order of business after I get the engine on the lift table will be to extract the IMS bearing, since I need to ascertain whether it's single or dual row before I can buy the replacement bearing. Chances are it's dual row, but I want to be sure. And my recent post announcing my decision to buy LN's ceramic-hybrid Retrofit notwithstanding, a change to my finances in a positive direction is shaking up my conviction about that decision, as are Jake Raby's videos about the IMS Solution. A bushing instead of a ball or roller bearing just makes so much sense.

KevinH1990 01-10-2025 08:24 AM

You may be able to determine the type of bearing by looking at the cover to the bearing shaft. Look at picture #13 on this Pelican Parts discussion: https://www.pelicanparts.com/techarticles/Boxster_Tech/14-ENGINE-Intermediate_Shaft_Bearing/14-ENGINE-Intermediate_Shaft_Bearing.htm

I appreciate that it may be difficult to take a good photo until you have the engine on the table. If you can take a photo, someone with more expertise than me may be able to tell you which bearing you have before you remove it.

Good luck with your work.

JFP in PA 01-10-2025 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoneWolfGal (Post 665281)
. A bushing instead of a ball or roller bearing just makes so much sense.

Yup.............

You can easily ascertain which bearing it is by looking at the cover flange and comparing it to the photos on LN's website

https://lnengineering.com/media/wysi...-Do-I-Have.JPG

LoneWolfGal 01-10-2025 06:05 PM

Thanks, JFP. After weeks of kicking, screaming, and rationalizing why I shouldn't, I'm going to heed your advice and order a Solution. I can't deny it; it's technically superior in all respects. Yes, it costs an arm and a leg, but it adds more than twice the cost to the value of the car. On carsandbids.com, Boxsters and 996s with the Solution are selling for five grand more than those without. That realization helped tip the scale. Thank you for your patience during the aforementioned kicking, screaming, and rationalizing phase.

Starter986 01-11-2025 04:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoneWolfGal (Post 665300)
Thanks, JFP. After weeks of kicking, screaming, and rationalizing why I shouldn't, I'm going to follow your advice and order a Solution. I can't deny it; it's technically superior in all respects. Yes, it costs an arm and a leg, but it adds more than twice that to the value of the car. On carsandbids.com, Boxsters and 996s with the Solution are selling for five grand more than those without. That realization helped tip the scale. Thank you for your patience during the aforementioned kicking, screaming, and rationalizing phase.

So... are you building this gem to enjoy... or sell?

LoneWolfGal 01-11-2025 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Starter986 (Post 665301)
So... are you building this gem to enjoy... or sell?

Both. I plan to drive the bejeezus out of it, secure in the knowledge I'll never have to fret about the IMS bearing, and eventually I'll sell it for top dollar to make room for a 959, Carrera GT, or 918. You see, I'm always realistic. Next question?

pilot4fn 01-11-2025 10:19 AM

The IMS Solution does have limited warranty for 5-years... regardless that it is told to be a lifetime soluton for the Porsche engine:

This is from IMS Solution website re: warranty:
"MS Solution LLC warrants that parts purchased from an authorized IMS Solution dealer or distributor, that were installed by a qualified installer and that were installed in compliance with, and precisely following, all guidelines and procedures, to include registration, set forth in the product installation guide, are free from defects in materials and workmanship for five (5) years/unlimited miles from the date of part installation for the single or dual row IMS Solution (106-08.20 & 106-08.40). The Single Row Pro IMS Retrofit is covered for two (2) years/24,000 miles from the date of part installation."

JFP in PA 01-11-2025 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pilot4fn (Post 665312)
The IMS Solution does have limited warranty for 5-years... regardless that it is told to be a lifetime soluton for the Porsche engine:

This is from IMS Solution website re: warranty:
"MS Solution LLC warrants that parts purchased from an authorized IMS Solution dealer or distributor, that were installed by a qualified installer and that were installed in compliance with, and precisely following, all guidelines and procedures, to include registration, set forth in the product installation guide, are free from defects in materials and workmanship for five (5) years/unlimited miles from the date of part installation for the single or dual row IMS Solution (106-08.20 & 106-08.40). The Single Row Pro IMS Retrofit is covered for two (2) years/24,000 miles from the date of part installation."

And to my knowledge, and what I have seen or heard from both LN and Jake Raby, none has ever failed in service. If fact, a some engines equipped with the Solution have suffered other types of failures (rod bolt failure, spun bearings, broken crank, dropped valve, etc.) and the Solution was removed from the failed engine, cleaned up, and installed in the replacement engine; something you cannot do with any other style of IMS retrofits.

Yes, they are more expensive, but "speed costs money; how fast do you want to go?"

Gilles 01-11-2025 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoneWolfGal (Post 665309)
I'll never have to fret about the IMS bearing, and eventually I'll sell it for top dollar to make room for a 959, Carrera GT, or 918. You see, I'm always realistic. Next question?

May your dreams become a reality :)

piper6909 01-11-2025 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JFP in PA (Post 665313)
And to my knowledge, and what I have seen or heard from both LN and Jake Raby, none has ever failed in service. If fact, a some engines equipped with the Solution have suffered other types of failures (rod bolt failure, spun bearings, broken crank, dropped valve, etc.) and the Solution was removed from the failed engine, cleaned up, and installed in the replacement engine; something you cannot do with any other style of IMS retrofits.

Yes, they are more expensive, but "speed costs money; how fast do you want to go?"

Boom. There are numerous events that can grenade an engine besides an IMSB failure. While The Solution may be a solid unit, the cost of the unit plus the cost to have it installed, because otherwise the warranty would be voided, is equal to or more than the cost of a replacement engine. And the engine could still blow up from other things, as you mentioned.

If "speed costs money" and someone wanted to go faster, they probably wouldn't buy a Boxster. :D :cheers:

LoneWolfGal 01-11-2025 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by piper6909 (Post 665316)
Boom. There are numerous events that can grenade an engine besides an IMSB failure. While The Solution may be a solid unit, the cost of the unit plus the cost to have it installed, because otherwise the warranty would be voided, is equal to or more than the cost of a replacement engine. And the engine could still blow up from other things, as you mentioned.

If "speed costs money" and someone wanted to go faster, they probably wouldn't buy a Boxster. :D :cheers:

You have a point, Al. I'm certainly not going to fork over several thousand bucks to have a LN-approved shop install the Solution in order to qualify for the 5-year warranty. However, Jake Raby indicated that DIYers should nevertheless go through the registration procedure, including sending LN the old bearing. It will provide proof that the Solution has been installed. That's really all I care about, because it's unlikely the warranty would be needed anyway.

LoneWolfGal 01-11-2025 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gilles (Post 665315)
May your dreams become a reality :)

Haha, thanks. I watched a video about Doug DeMuro's acquisition of a Carrera GT. Kudos to him, but I believe I derive as much enjoyment from my inexpensive 986 as he does from his million-dollar hypercar. Ditto with Hoovie and his Bugotti Veyron.

LoneWolfGal 01-11-2025 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JFP in PA (Post 665313)
And to my knowledge, and what I have seen or heard from both LN and Jake Raby, none has ever failed in service. If fact, a some engines equipped with the Solution have suffered other types of failures (rod bolt failure, spun bearings, broken crank, dropped valve, etc.) and the Solution was removed from the failed engine, cleaned up, and installed in the replacement engine; something you cannot do with any other style of IMS retrofits.

Yes, they are more expensive, but "speed costs money; how fast do you want to go?"

My guess is that lawyers nixed LN providing a transferrable lifetime warranty with the Solution. Too bad, because a limited warranty on such an expensive item gives potential buyers pause. Not me, though. The product registration is the important thing.

LoneWolfGal 01-11-2025 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pilot4fn (Post 665312)
The IMS Solution does have limited warranty for 5-years... regardless that it is told to be a lifetime soluton for the Porsche engine:

This is from IMS Solution website re: warranty:
"MS Solution LLC warrants that parts purchased from an authorized IMS Solution dealer or distributor, that were installed by a qualified installer and that were installed in compliance with, and precisely following, all guidelines and procedures, to include registration, set forth in the product installation guide, are free from defects in materials and workmanship for five (5) years/unlimited miles from the date of part installation for the single or dual row IMS Solution (106-08.20 & 106-08.40). The Single Row Pro IMS Retrofit is covered for two (2) years/24,000 miles from the date of part installation."

I'll bet LN originally wanted to offer a transferrable lifetime warranty. "That wouldn't be wise," lawyers no doubt advised them. And to think I almost went to law school...

piper6909 01-12-2025 05:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoneWolfGal (Post 665319)
You have a point, Al. I'm certainly not going to fork over several thousand bucks to have a LN-approved shop install the Solution in order to qualify for the 5-year warranty. However, Jake Raby indicated that DIYers should nevertheless go through the registration procedure, including sending LN the old bearing. It will provide proof that the Solution has been installed. That's really all I care about, because it's unlikely the warranty would be needed anyway.

Oh, I totally get it. That's why I do all the servicing on my cars myself. When I had more time, I even swapped and rebuilt engines. But not on the Boxster (yet). The only thing I can't do is rebuild transmissions.

Looking forward to reading up on your progress.

LoneWolfGal 01-12-2025 11:57 AM

The IMS cover flange appears to have a shallow dish, which means it's a dual-row bearing. Oddly, the flange is secured with hex-head bolts. Every other one I've seen used Torx. Ees a puzzlement. Perhaps I should replace them with Torx? In any case, after the lift table arrives I'm going to pull the bearing and eyeball it before I order the new one.


http://986forum.com/forums/uploads02...1736715066.jpg


I also drained the oil from the new engine and removed the filter and inspected it. It was clean as whistle, of course.

JFP in PA 01-12-2025 01:31 PM

The bolts came both ways, most were hex headed.

Your IMS Solution kit will include new bolts.

LoneWolfGal 01-12-2025 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by piper6909 (Post 665327)
The only thing I can't do is rebuild transmissions.

I've watched it done. Seems pretty straightforward, a step at a time. If your transmission went south I bet you'd roll up your sleeves, as would I.

Edit: Upon reflection, it's more likely that I would pay a visit to eBay and find a replacement transmission, and you'd probably do the same. But it would be interesting to rebuild one. They're like a big metal puzzle.

piper6909 01-12-2025 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoneWolfGal (Post 665334)
I've watched it done. Seems pretty straightforward, a step at a time. If your transmission went south I bet you'd roll up your sleeves, as would I.

Edit: Upon reflection, it's more likely that I would pay a visit to eBay and find a replacement transmission, and you'd probably do the same. But it would be interesting to rebuild one. They're like a big metal puzzle.

The closest I came to rebuilding a transmission was replacing the tail housing on a 2011 Outback. I found a 29K mile one that was wrecked and the rear mount broke the tail housing. For that reason it was very cheap and I had a bad transmission with a good housing so I went for it. When I took it apart little parts started falling out. Luckily, I was able to put it all back together. That was about 6 years ago and my friend's son has the car now.

I've watched many youtube videos of people rebuilding transmissions. It seems straightforward, but those guys can do it in their sleep. They know what to look for and what clearences should be and stuff like that. Not my wheelhouse. I use Dodge Caravans as my work vehicles and they drop transmissions all the time. It doesn't help that I log 50-60k miles a year. I always paid someone to do them. Less downtime, mainly.

Maybe after I retire and have more free time I might venture into tearing one down. But I'll have to have the right mindset for it, and right now it doesn't interest me that much.

Gilles 01-13-2025 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoneWolfGal (Post 665330)
In any case, after the lift table arrives I'm going to pull the bearing and eyeball it before I order the new one.

Just remember to lock the cams and remove the chain tensioners 'before' you remove the flange cover, and of course that dual row bearing that you will be removing will be in great condition.. :p

LoneWolfGal 01-13-2025 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gilles (Post 665343)
Just remember to lock the cams and remove the chain tensioners 'before' you remove the flange cover, and of course that dual row bearing that you will be removing will be in great condition.. :p

Agree completely. I understand a few folks have gotten away with it without locking the cams, and I also read that 5-chain engines are less susceptible to jumping a tooth during the process, but I don't like taking chances. I borrowed LN's official toolkit, which includes the cam-locking widget. BTW, I read the tensioners can be simply loosened instead of removed. What's your thinking about that?

JFP in PA 01-13-2025 10:45 AM

Remove them, that way you know they are fully released; and be sure to mark where they came from because they are not all the same and you will need to replace their seals as well.

elgyqc 01-13-2025 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoneWolfGal (Post 665344)
Agree completely. I understand a few folks have gotten away with it without locking the cams, and I also read that 5-chain engines are less susceptible to jumping a tooth during the process, but I don't like taking chances. I borrowed LN's official toolkit, which includes the cam-locking widget. BTW, I read the tensioners can be simply loosened instead of removed. What's your thinking about that?

If I remember rightly the tension of the chains pulls the IMS off center making the reinstallation of the flange a challenge. If you are going to change the chain tensioner pads in the heads you have to remover the tensioners, so do the IMSB at the same time. By the way, in the PET they are called chain adjusters, which is handy to not confuse them with other parts that are tensioners... but I'm a minority of one who would like to adopt the Porsche nomenclature.

elgyqc 01-13-2025 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JFP in PA (Post 665345)
... be sure to mark where they came from because they are not all the same and you will need to replace their seals as well.

Or remember that the number of circles on the head of the adjuster (tensioner) is the same as the guide on the block right beside the hole where the adjuster goes.

JFP in PA 01-13-2025 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elgyqc (Post 665348)
Or remember that the number of circles on the head of the adjuster (tensioner) is the same as the guide on the block right beside the hole where the adjuster goes.

Not everyone notices that, judging from the number of ones we find switched..............

LoneWolfGal 01-13-2025 07:11 PM

The clutch, pressure plate, flywheel, etc. on the old engine are original, with155,293 miles on them. I might have to replace the whole works, which would cost around a thousand bucks for a quality aftermarket setup. Yikes!. Installing the new engine is like yanking a piece of yarn on a sweater. Well, in for a penny, in for a pound...

piper6909 01-14-2025 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoneWolfGal (Post 665351)
The clutch, pressure plate, flywheel, etc. on the old engine are original, with155,293 miles on them. I might have to replace the whole works, which would cost around a thousand bucks for a quality aftermarket setup. Yikes!. Installing the new engine is like yanking a piece of yarn on a sweater. Well, in for a penny, in for a pound...

Original clutch and pressure plate? Then I'm guessing the imsb is original too. 155K miles. Not too bad.

LoneWolfGal 01-14-2025 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by piper6909 (Post 665359)
Original clutch and pressure plate? Then I'm guessing the imsb is original too. 155K miles. Not too bad.

I agree, Al. The guy I bought it from was the third owner, and as far as he knew nothing had been done to the car other than oil changes. The dual-row bearings have a 1% failure rate (compared to 8% for the single), so I guess that accounts for its longevity. However, Jake Raby said the best thing you can say about a ball-bearing unit is it hasn't failed yet, but it's only a matter of time. Something else beat it to the punch, and I'm glad it did. Otherwise, I would have missed the low-mileage engine, which are rare as white whales.

My lift table hasn't arrived yet. I was hoping it would be delivered yesterday, as I'm about to leave for Eugene for three days.

LoneWolfGal 01-15-2025 02:28 PM

Received this shipping notice today for my lift table:

"Sorry! Due to the severe snowstorm along the way, the delivery of your package has been delayed and may take longer to arrive. We will urge the courier to resume delivery as soon as possible."

D'OH! Don't they realize I can't work on that engine until I get the table?! Why, I oughta...

LoneWolfGal 01-18-2025 11:58 AM

The lift table just arrived. Now I need to assemble it. Like the engine crane, it's a heavy beast.


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