Screwed up. Need advice

[Sand blister]

Long story short, I had to remove one of the chain tensioners because it appeared that I didn’t put on a crush gasket on during the last job. It was seeping a bit of oil. Enough to be annoying.

Locked crank in top dead center, and I lock the cams.

I go to remove the chain tensioner and at the same time the tensioner comes out my cam lock falls out.

I go to put the tensioner back in and it’s a no go. Looks like the cams rotated.

Can cams be timed with out removing the engine is the question.

I think I know the answer here but someone hopefully has better news/ideas.

Any thoughts are appreciated.

[Homeoboxter]

I`m pretty sure you don`t have to pull the engine. Which tensioner did you remove? Is it a 3 or 5 chain engine?

[Sand blister]

5 chain in 1999.

Bank two on passenger side the one the faces down towards the ground.

[elgyqc]

TTgator's videos should help you. The first of two detailed videos is here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O037gHuapCI&list=PL8ogZBhXvNyZTsvWKpnljSlzT1zeECtqx&index=123
There is also a condensed version.

[Stl-986]

You shouldn't have to drop the engine, but...you will then ask yourself...why didnt I? It is far easier to do with the engine down then in the car. Bank 1 is easiest..bank 2 is the exact opposite.

[Homeoboxter]

Originally Posted by Sand blister

5 chain in 1999.

Bank two on passenger side the one the faces down towards the ground.

That`s good, that means only one bank is affected, not both. What I would do is to remove all the green plugs (both banks) and check the timing of the camshafts with respect to the crankshaft while it`s at TDC. If they are off, or you can`t reinstall the tensioner, pull the scavange pump and loosen the four bolts on the sprocket. Mark them before you do this to have a reference. This will give you some room to to get everything in time. If you can`t get it timed with the tensioner in, you indeed jumped one or two teeth.

If that`s the case, you need to pull the sprocket completely, remove the tensioner, hold the chain with something to prevent its falling into the crankcase and lock the camshafts at TDC. Before doing this, to avoid piston to valve contact, I`d rotate the crankshaft a few degrees off TDC such that none of the pistons can contact the valves. Then I`d time the camshaft first, followed by rotating the crankshaft to TDC. Then try to reinstall the sprocket and the tensioner. I`m not sure this is doable if you remove the scavanging pump only, but the worst case scenario is that you need to pull the valve cover to get access. There are DIYs on how to do this with clamping down the camshafts, etc. This is what I`d do, maybe there`s a better way though. Obviously you need to rotate the camshafts very gently so you need some tool to do that. Note also that the timing marks on the camshaft on bank one and two have to be 180 degrees off relative to each other. Note also that the intake and exhaust camshaft are moving together driven by the small chain. Watch videos and inspect pictures of the camshaft assembly carefully before you proceed. Hope all this make sense. Good luck!

[Stl-986]

Think he is well past pulling the cam plugs. He was replacing the tensioner which means the plugs & came cover are off.

[Homeoboxter]

Originally Posted by Stl-986

Think he is well past pulling the cam plugs. He was replacing the tensioner which means the plugs & came cover are off.

The point is that all the green caps need to be off so he can see where the camshaft is at on the other bank that he didn`t mess with. And the cam cover does not have to be off to replace the tensioner.

[Stl-986]

Originally Posted by Homeoboxter

And the cam cover does not have to be off to replace the tensioner.

Would like to see how you can replace the tensioner without taking the cam cover off. You can't even replace the solenoid without taking the cover off.

[Homeoboxter]

Originally Posted by Stl-986

Would like to see how you can replace the tensioner without taking the cam cover off. You can't even replace the solenoid without taking the cover off.

OK, I went back and reread the original post. My understanding is that the PO talks about the timing chain tensioner, which is a spring and oil loaded hydraulic thing that provides tension on the timing chain rails. There are 3 of them in this car, 1 for the crank-to-IMS chain and 2 for the IMS-to-camshaft chains. He clarified that he meant the one that`s on bank two, facing down. He`d like to replace the crush washer behind it because it`s leaking. All three of these tensioners are bolted onto the engine from outside, you don`t have to take anything off, but it`s recommended to lock the shafts.

I think you are talking about the cam chain adjuster/variocam, which is a completely different thing. If the PO talks about the variocam as well then my post is to be disregarded. But I don`t think so, because the variocam has no crush washer, it`s not facing down and it`s not a tensioner.

[Starter986]

Originally Posted by Homeoboxter

OK, I went back and reread the original post. My understanding is that the PO talks about the timing chain tensioner, which is a spring and oil loaded hydraulic thing that provides tension on the timing chain rails. There are 3 of them in this car, 1 for the crank-to-IMS chain and 2 for the IMS-to-camshaft chains. He clarified that he meant the one that`s on bank two, facing down. He`d like to replace the crush washer behind it because it`s leaking. All three of these tensioners are bolted onto the engine from outside, you don`t have to take anything off, but it`s recommended to lock the shafts.

I think you are talking about the cam chain adjuster/variocam, which is a completely different thing. If the PO talks about the variocam as well then my post is to be disregarded. But I don`t think so, because the variocam has no crush washer, it`s not facing down and it`s not a tensioner.

That's how I understand the procedure.

[Stl-986]

You are right. I went through and re-read it again.

If I remember right the only painful one to do is the upper one on bank 2 (drivers side). Think you have to move the AC out of the way for that one.

[Sand blister]

So here we go. Update on the original post....

This took a long time to get done/fixed and was not pretty.

I ended up towing the car to a reputable "race" shop. Always great cars in the lot getting worked on. This was my first experience with them.

I explained the situation. Because they couldn't get a clear view to set timing, they highly recommend an engine out service. Bummer, but I trusted them and went with it.

This is where things went south. Upon inspection and attempting to reinstall the chain tensioner, it would not go in. They noticed the threads where stripped mid way through.

Two possible scenarios:
- during my initial attempt at re-install (tensioner did not want to go in) after removal I crossed threaded the tensioner and stripped the internal threads on the head. If any one has ever done this job it's a pain.
- as I was removing the tensioner, It sprung out and stripped the threads.

Both are possible and this is entirely my fault.

Either way, I was looking at a VERY expensive bill as this is way beyond my knowledge or comfort level.

As I was in the shop talking to the tech he got on the phone with LN engineering and flat six innovations offices to gauge options. Both said the head needs to be replaced in order to properly secure the tensioner. A thread chaser was not recommended.

After hearing the two pros from each office speak I figured the shop the car is in is in good hands.

So... they found a refurbished for $1500.

At this point I was in no mans land. Engine is out, car is in pieces. Not like I can pick everything up and take it home to figure this out.

Again, great communication from the shop about this process. Every call I received was essentially worse case scenario.

The head came in and got installed. Engine went back in and car is back.

Total was $6700. A total disaster, nightmare and worse case scenario.

This all started because I wanted to change a 3 dollar washer.

I have been working on cars most of my life. This "oh oh" mistake takes the cake.

Always double check and triple check when working on important items. Cause I do not wish this on anyone.

[Starter986]

Originally Posted by Sand blister

So here we go. Update on the original post....

This took a long time to get done/fixed and was not pretty.

I ended up towing the car to a reputable "race" shop. Always great cars in the lot getting worked on. This was my first experience with them.

I explained the situation. Because they couldn't get a clear view to set timing, they highly recommend an engine out service. Bummer, but I trusted them and went with it.

This is where things went south. Upon inspection and attempting to reinstall the chain tensioner, it would not go in. They noticed the threads where stripped mid way through.

Two possible scenarios:
- during my initial attempt at re-install (tensioner did not want to go in) after removal I crossed threaded the tensioner and stripped the internal threads on the head. If any one has ever done this job it's a pain.
- as I was removing the tensioner, It sprung out and stripped the threads.

Both are possible and this is entirely my fault.

Either way, I was looking at a VERY expensive bill as this is way beyond my knowledge or comfort level.

As I was in the shop talking to the tech he got on the phone with LN engineering and flat six innovations offices to gauge options. Both said the head needs to be replaced in order to properly secure the tensioner. A thread chaser was not recommended.

After hearing the two pros from each office speak I figured the shop the car is in is in good hands.

So... they found a refurbished for $1500.

At this point I was in no mans land. Engine is out, car is in pieces. Not like I can pick everything up and take it home to figure this out.

Again, great communication from the shop about this process. Every call I received was essentially worse case scenario.

The head came in and got installed. Engine went back in and car is back.

Total was $6700. A total disaster, nightmare and worse case scenario.

This all started because I wanted to change a 3 dollar washer.

I have been working on cars most of my life. This "oh oh" mistake takes the cake.

Always double check and triple check when working on important items. Cause I do not wish this on anyone.

Ouch.

Car is now a keeper.

Your tragedy should be bookmarked for those attempting the same thing.

Glad to hear it's going to back on the road!

[Homeoboxter]

Ugh. Sorry to hear your story and thanks for getting back here and sharing it. It`s great that you saved the car, cars with such problems can easily end up in the junkyard.

[pilot4fn]

Sorry to hear that happen to you

Same token, thank you for sharing this, since I took the engine & tranny out last weekend and will be replacing all tensioners and all chain ramps... Got to be extra careful on re-install of the tensioners.