How much for oil change?

[z12358]

bmussatti:
"You must maintain your Porsche according to the Maintenance Schedule in the Maintenance Booklet and the Car Care Instructions in the Owner's Manual and keep the receipts as proof of maintenance"

Thanks bmuss. I'm just worried that somewhere there in the fine print there isn't something like: "All service has to be performed by a Porsche Certified shop, blah, blah...". If I was the one offering the warranty I'd probably want to have something there that would ensure a certain standard of quality for the work done on the warrantied car.

Originally Posted by z12358

bmussatti:
"You must maintain your Porsche according to the Maintenance Schedule in the Maintenance Booklet and the Car Care Instructions in the Owner's Manual and keep the receipts as proof of maintenance"

Thanks bmuss. I'm just worried that somewhere there in the fine print there isn't something like: "All service has to be performed by a Porsche Certified shop, blah, blah...". If I was the one offering the warranty I'd probably want to have something there that would ensure a certain standard of quality for the work done on the warrantied car.

Yeah, it's a slippery slope!

[blue2000s]

It takes about fifteen minutes to actually warm up and wrench on the car. The other 15 minutes is waiting for the oil to drain. I'm at home the whole time so I can hang out with my family too. Win-win really.

Originally Posted by bmussatti

Blue2000s (and others), don't forget to include the "value of your time" in this equation! I don't want to get too philosophical, but it truly has "value" and should be part of your "value proposition".

For round numbers, someone making $100K/year equates to about $50/hour. I think for even an experienced DIY it take at least an hour to do an oil change on our cars. Especially if you include the time to get out your tools, do the work, clean-up and then drive your oil to a proper reclamation center.

And I am sure there are members on this Forum who earn north of $300-500/hour. So, that DIY oil change becomes very expensive in true value terms.

Sure, you can say that you have the time anyways. And I would agree. It is just a matter of how you want to "invest" the very limited time that we all have after a full work-week and the added pressures of family life, staying in shape, helping a sick family member, or any of the other potential hundreds of demands against our personal time.

And for others still, it is the personal enjoyment they gain from doing a high quality repair or maintenance to their beloved Boxsters. And I get that too.

For me, I could change my own oil, but I rather drive my car an extra hour, or play at the park with my young daughters or share a cup of coffee with my wife at the local java house.

It's all about personal choice. But never under estimate the value of your time!

OK, I am off my soap-box and the door bell keeps ringing. Trick or Treat!!

[MNBoxster]

Hi,

I have seen some case law concerning auto warranties. I'm not an Attorney, but to sum it up the finding was that a warranty isn't completely void if non-authorized maintenance or repair is done to the vehicle. But, the warranty covering that specific work may be. If AAA repairs a flat this could be considered unauthorized work, but Porsche could not void the warranty unless some subsequent failure could be directly linked to the repair that AAA did.

How much they will cover is anyone's guess. For instance, changing your Oil isn't technically working on the engine, it is working on the Lubrication System. Should another engine part, not related to the Lubrication system fail, Porsche would be bound by the case law to honor the warranty in this instance.

But, of course, this is the Legal perpsective and the only way to bring that to the forefront is to actually litigate it. I suspect that Porsche would deny a claim to the example I cited above and it would be up to the owner to argue with them until some understanding was reached or a suit begun.

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

[blue2000s]

Originally Posted by z12358

"Low profile oil pan (no jack required),"

I thought you have to lift the car to be able to access the engine from below. Please explain.

Z.

P.S. Is there a Bentley (or similar) manual for 987 yet ?

It's a bit of a reach, but I guess I have long arms.

[MNBoxster]

Originally Posted by z12358

bmussatti:
"You must maintain your Porsche according to the Maintenance Schedule in the Maintenance Booklet and the Car Care Instructions in the Owner's Manual and keep the receipts as proof of maintenance"

Thanks bmuss. I'm just worried that somewhere there in the fine print there isn't something like: "All service has to be performed by a Porsche Certified shop, blah, blah...". If I was the one offering the warranty I'd probably want to have something there that would ensure a certain standard of quality for the work done on the warrantied car.

Hi,

Why? Porsche can (and does) deny a warranty claim initially on a lot of issues. Only when an owner is persistent do they become more accommodating. The reasoning goes something like this "I can dig into my own pocket to fix something which shouldn't have failed (which is my fault to begin with), or, I can simply say NO and have the Customer hand over even more of their money to me..."

Look at Sammy with his RMS issue (http://www.986forum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7298&page=1 ). Porsche denies the claim (doesn't even call him back), only his persistence got them to cough up 66% of the cost. And, let's look at that for a moment. Sammy ends up paying 33% of the Shop Charge, while Porsche only have to pay the actual cost. Porsche and the Dealer ends up making money 2 ways; Sammy pays for a third of it including the Mark-up (retail), while Porsche and the dealer probably only pay actual costs equal to maybe 40% of the retail warranty claim, so they profit 2-ways. They may even write-off the Labor as Training Expense or some such thing.

My point is, Porsche doesn't need all the fine print when they can simply deny the repair and probably have 50% or more claimants leave it at that and shell out for the repair on their own. It's a Dealer's game; they have the deck stacked in their favor.

There are two kinds of Automobile warranties offered by manufacturers; Those to keep Customers (Lexus, Jaguar, Kia, and others), and those to get Customers (Porsche, GM, Chrysler, and others). Porsche needed to offer a warranty in order to attract buyers, so they did. From a lot of the reports we see & hear, once they get the sale, they try to dodge and weave as best they can on warranty issues to preserve their profit, not their customer. I look at the Porsche Warranty with great skepticism, not any feeling of security, like a Blanket full of holes...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

[z12358]

Now I remember how we didn't conclude anything on the warranty thing before. Let's assume that the prohibition of outside service is not there until someone actually reads it.

Assumming that I bring my own oil, filter, ring, etc, do most oil change places (such as Jiffy Lube) have the tools (wrench, etc.) to do an oil change on the Boxster? This may not be a bad idea, as I can probably find such a place closer to my storage and the drive will be shorter before I store the car with the new oil. Of course, if I do it I'll be standing right there watching like a hawk.

Z.

[MNBoxster]

Originally Posted by z12358

Now I remember how we didn't conclude anything on the warranty thing before. Let's assume that the prohibition of outside service is not there until someone actually reads it.

Assumming that I bring my own oil, filter, ring, etc, do most oil change places (such as Jiffy Lube) have the tools (wrench, etc.) to do an oil change on the Boxster? This may not be a bad idea, as I can probably find such a place closer to my storage and the drive will be shorter before I store the car with the new oil. Of course, if I do it I'll be standing right there watching like a hawk.

Z.

Hi,

The drain plug wrench is common enough, 8mm Allen bit. But, the Oil Filter wrench (74mm, 14 flutes) isn't that common, so I wouldn't expect Jiffy Lube to have one.

Besides needing to torque the Plug and Filter Cannister (37 ft.lbs. and 19 ft.lbs. respectively) could also be a problem, they may not have a torque wrench, let alone an accurate one.

Also, by the book, the Oil needs to drain for at least 20 min. to get the most old oil out and I cannot imaging Jiffy Lube holding a Bay out of service for that long.

But, the biggest concern I would have would be having their guys waving open quarts of Oil around my trunk!...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

[Brucelee]

My experience would support Jim's observations on warranty coverage. Lexus has always been VERY accomodating with me on warranty issues.

Porsche has been the opposite. Fortunately, I have some very good service folks here in Carlsbad who fight the good fight. I have seen them haggling with "the factory" on issues.

It is too bad. If the car fails under warranty, lets keep the customer satisfied.

[ukchris]

$20 Filter, About $50 for oil and $12 of culled 2"x12" from Home Depot. Drive on, drain, wait, fill, drive off!

Originally Posted by ukchris

$20 Filter, About $50 for oil and $12 of culled 2"x12" from Home Depot. Drive on, drain, wait, fill, drive off!

Ukchris, pretty slick! I like the low-tech approach to a higher-tech issue! Good work. Now, how do you keep the blocks from sliding/slipping?

[ukchris]

Originally Posted by bmussatti

Ukchris, pretty slick! I like the low-tech approach to a higher-tech issue! Good work. Now, how do you keep the blocks from sliding/slipping?

I guess the short answer is... I didn't. The floor is epoxy, I just park the car, push the ramps up snug to the tires and pull forward, they didn't move an inch. I've actually got another piece to add to make them a little higher as it's a tight fit for my noggin as it is in the picture but it's nice as the car is level and access is good.

[z12358]

MNBoxster:
"The drain plug wrench is common enough, 8mm Allen bit. But, the Oil Filter wrench (74mm, 14 flutes) isn't that common, so I wouldn't expect Jiffy Lube to have one.

Besides needing to torque the Plug and Filter Cannister (37 ft.lbs. and 19 ft.lbs. respectively) could also be a problem, they may not have a torque wrench, let alone an accurate one.

Also, by the book, the Oil needs to drain for at least 20 min. to get the most old oil out and I cannot imaging Jiffy Lube holding a Bay out of service for that long.

But, the biggest concern I would have would be having their guys waving open quarts of Oil around my trunk!..."

Thx Jim. All very good points. I'm scratching the idea. It's either going to be by myself, Porsche dealer, or a non-dealer shop specializing in Porsche. The "by myself" is a problem as I have no light and power in the storage garage.

ukchris, great idea with the Home Depo stairs! Btw, what kind of oil pans do you guys use that are so flat and yet can handle up to 10 qts of oil? And where do you take the old oil? I'm also going to need some pics with exact instructions (hence, the Bentely manual question -- any for the 987 out yet?) including torque levels.

Thanks for all the responses!

Z.

[ukchris]

Where are you located? If you ask you might be suprised how willing people are to help those who are eager to learn, for the price of a few beers someone may share their garage for an hour.

You can get an oil pan at Walmart or Home Depot, just make sure it will hold 10 quarts and is reasonably slim. Remember to open the breather hole on the oil pan too or you'll have a mess on your hands, trust me!!

For disposal Autozone will take your old oil, I think they supposedly only do so if you buy your oil there but I don't think they ever check.

Check the quantity of oil required in the book before filling too, I think mine takes 8.75 quarts and I nearly had 9 in before I checked!

Chris.

[z12358]

ukchris:
"Where are you located? If you ask you might be suprised how willing people are to help those who are eager to learn, for the price of a few beers someone may share their garage for an hour."

Thx for the thought. The car's in northwestern CT (Litchfield county) right now where I spend most of my weekends and where I plan storing it. Kind of a long drive to Boston for an oil change. I'll try some friends in the area but if anyone here is in the area and likes beer...

Did Home Depo have those stairs already made or you culled them yourself?

Would the same set of wrenches do the job on 986, 987, 996, and 997?

Z.

[ukchris]

I just kept checking the cullrd lumber rack as it's cheap, you could just as easily buy a 2 x 12 I suppose. I cut them up, a couple of 45 degree cuts with a circular saw then screw them together. Lots of people do an oil change with the back end on rhino ramps, another popular way is to find a slope, put the ramps a little down hill then back on to them such that the car ends up roughly level.

I don't know of anyone in NW CT, there was a Boxster tech session in SE CT a couple of weeks ago which might have been ideal for this.

I think the tools would be similar across cars, they aren't expensive anyway, you're only looking at a few dollars with the exception of the torque wrench.

Chris.

[z12358]

MNBoxster:
"My point is, Porsche doesn't need all the fine print when they can simply deny the repair and probably have 50% or more claimants leave it at that and shell out for the repair on their own. It's a Dealer's game; they have the deck stacked in their favor."

In postings from new (warrantied) owners that I've read on forums it doesn't look like there are a lot denials of warranty. If anything, I was amazed what claims the dealers actually did service under warranty (console scratches, etc.). Sammy's case had a twist as the claim was made just outside of warranty (for something that the dealer failed to fix in waranty) so perhaps a little "convincing" should have been expected (of course, shouldn't have taken that long!). I haven't read about a case where RMS was not repaired under warranty.

Same as with insurance companies, it is in the interest of the ones who offer the insurance/warranty to service as little claims as they can get away with. The deck is always stacked in the favor of the ones who got your money first with an obligation for a conditional service in the future. That's why rules are important, especially written ones. So if the rules of the contract speciffically prohibit something that I've done, my bargaining power during the claim negotiations will be diminished. That's why I wanted to know for sure if anything like that is written in the rules.

And I agree that how claims are handled ultumately rests on the customer satisfaction policy of each company.

Z.

[blue2000s]

Originally Posted by z12358

MNBoxster:
"The drain plug wrench is common enough, 8mm Allen bit. But, the Oil Filter wrench (74mm, 14 flutes) isn't that common, so I wouldn't expect Jiffy Lube to have one.

Besides needing to torque the Plug and Filter Cannister (37 ft.lbs. and 19 ft.lbs. respectively) could also be a problem, they may not have a torque wrench, let alone an accurate one.

Also, by the book, the Oil needs to drain for at least 20 min. to get the most old oil out and I cannot imaging Jiffy Lube holding a Bay out of service for that long.

But, the biggest concern I would have would be having their guys waving open quarts of Oil around my trunk!..."

Thx Jim. All very good points. I'm scratching the idea. It's either going to be by myself, Porsche dealer, or a non-dealer shop specializing in Porsche. The "by myself" is a problem as I have no light and power in the storage garage.

ukchris, great idea with the Home Depo stairs! Btw, what kind of oil pans do you guys use that are so flat and yet can handle up to 10 qts of oil? And where do you take the old oil? I'm also going to need some pics with exact instructions (hence, the Bentely manual question -- any for the 987 out yet?) including torque levels.

Thanks for all the responses!

Z.

Actually, any auto parts store that sells oil should take your old oil, not questions, although you might need to empty it into a big tank yourself.

The procedure isn't different from any other car. Search the forum under "oil change" and you'll find pictures of the drain plug and filter cannister so you'll immediately know what you're looking at. The torques are probably the same but you might want to call on your local dealers service departments and see if they're nice enough to confirm. Sometimes they are.

[Brucelee]

In CA, if you sell oil, you must take oil back for recycling.

It is one thing I like about CA laws.

One thing!

[jeffsquire]

$100. Give or take a few. Lansing, Michigan.