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Old 08-02-2020, 11:11 AM   #81
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Originally Posted by 10/10ths View Post
....When you invest in the LN magnetic drain plug, it comes with instructions. And the instructions are on their web site.

Read the instructions when you buy a new product. Read the owner’s manual in your car. Engineers spent a lot of time and money and blood, sweat, and tears to engineer these things and then write up detailed instructions for their customers to make sure everything works as engineered.

But people are lazy and don’t want to take five minutes to READ.

People will drop $100,000 on a car, and then not take five minutes to read how to care for that car.

Forgive my rant, but I work in the automotive industry, my specialty is technical instruction.

I always ask folks, “If you bought a private jet, would you make sure you knew how to change the oil properly before you flew across the ocean?”

If you can’t take five minutes to read the owner’s manual, and make sure your car doesn’t dump out all its oil on a drive across Montana, then you shouldn’t buy the car.

Harsh? No. Reality? Hell yes.

RTFM.

I’m done. Thanks for your time. Return to your normal programming.
Here's the problem: The owner's manual is useless to those who have an LN plug, because LN specs much lower torques.

So if someone buys a used Box that came with the LN plug, then changes the oil and torques, as you said, to spec in the owner's manual, they will most likely damage the plug. Likewise, if they took it to an indy or quick oil change place that may not necessarily know that LN specs a different torque. Even if they use a torque wrench, they probably would torque it to the spec that their computer tells them, which is derived from the manufacturer's specs, not aftermarket products.

So instead of just blaming the user, you would think LN would have just developed a plug that used similar torque specs as the OE plug.

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Old 08-02-2020, 11:39 AM   #82
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Oh, I see, it is always LN’s fault that people do not read or pay attention ................
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Old 08-02-2020, 11:55 AM   #83
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Oh, I see, it is always LN’s fault that people do not read or pay attention ................
Relax, JFP. I never said that.

I was just offering scenarios where the operator/installer, who may be well-intentioned, gets bad torque specs from the Porsche manual because unbeknownst to them, the aftermarket plug uses a much lower spec. And to eliminate that possibility, LN could probably have made a plug with similar torque specs.

And I'm also offering a counter-narrative to your prior assertion that it's always "operator failure".

So maybe the real answer is somewhere in between and the fault is shared by both LN and the operator. Happy?



EDIT: Here is an example of a magnetic oil plug with similar torque specs to OE. So it can be done:
https://www.fvd.net/us-en/FVD10717601/magnetic-drain-plug-996-997-986-987.html
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Old 08-02-2020, 12:11 PM   #84
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I don't think these posts should get lost in the fray. After re-reading this thread I change my recommendation. Their plug may not be broken like mine was. Unless the OP is 100% sure they got it right the first time, maybe they can go back underneath and confirm the proper torque value and units were used. Let us know how it goes.
Oops, I did mean 19 ft.pounds not NM. I have since loosened the plug and retorqued to 19 ft.lbs.
I have had 3 of these plugs so I know how to use them and what torque is required. I will keep an eye on it!
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Old 08-02-2020, 01:10 PM   #85
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Relax, JFP. I never said that.

I was just offering scenarios where the operator/installer, who may be well-intentioned, gets bad torque specs from the Porsche manual because unbeknownst to them, the aftermarket plug uses a much lower spec. And to eliminate that possibility, LN could probably have made a plug with similar torque specs.

And I'm also offering a counter-narrative to your prior assertion that it's always "operator failure".

So maybe the real answer is somewhere in between and the fault is shared by both LN and the operator. Happy?



EDIT: Here is an example of a magnetic oil plug with similar torque specs to OE. So it can be done:
https://www.fvd.net/us-en/FVD10717601/magnetic-drain-plug-996-997-986-987.html
No, because all sorts of aftermarket companies make stuff for these cars that use different specs than factory; ARP for instance uses different specs for several of their fastener products because they work better at the ARP specs.

If you are going to use aftermarket parts, the operator needs to understand how they are different and act accordingly.
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Old 08-02-2020, 01:22 PM   #86
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No, because all sorts of aftermarket companies make stuff for these cars that use different specs than factory; ARP for instance uses different specs for several of their fastener products because they work better at the ARP specs.

If you are going to use aftermarket parts, the operator needs to understand how they are different and act accordingly.
So John, do you just “recognize” when there are different fasteners in place and adjust accordingly? Keeping in mind that it may not be obvious whose fastener it is? Just seems like a lot to keep track of. (I’m talking especially the second time around, when you’re not the one tightening that new fastener, when it’s now greasy and grungy and hard to id.)

Do most mechanics recognize LN drain plugs and know to back off on the torque applied?

And…do you use a torque wrench when you do them?

And…if not, are you gonna start?
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Old 08-02-2020, 01:41 PM   #87
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So John, do you just “recognize” when there are different fasteners in place and adjust accordingly? Keeping in mind that it may not be obvious whose fastener it is? Just seems like a lot to keep track of. (I’m talking especially the second time around, when you’re not the one tightening that new fastener, when it’s now greasy and grungy and hard to id.)

Do most mechanics recognize LN drain plugs and know to back off on the torque applied?

And…do you use a torque wrench when you do them?

And…if not, are you gonna start?
With fasteners, they are visually different, so it is obvious. As for the drain plugs, LN’s are not marked, while others are, so again it is obvious to an experienced tech.

In my shop, if you are not using an appropriate torque wrench, you won’t be working here very long. Every fastener and drain plug is torqued to specs, period.
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Old 08-02-2020, 01:48 PM   #88
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With fasteners, they are visually different, so it is obvious. As for the drain plugs, LN’s are not marked, while others are, so again it is obvious to an experienced tech.

In my shop, if you are not using an appropriate torque wrench, you won’t be working here very long. Every fastener and drain plug is torqued to specs, period.
Well okay then. I may re-think my approach on these..

On the drain plugs...do you have a different set of torque values depending on new crush washer vs old crush washer?

NO NEED TO RESPOND ON THAT ONE!
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Old 08-02-2020, 02:00 PM   #89
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For those who are interested in purchasing one, LN is selling the latest revision which has the torque spec and their logo laser etch(not grooved) into their magnetic oil drain plug. It should help solve the problem for you; until the etching eventually wears off . The same one NJbray used.

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Old 08-02-2020, 02:56 PM   #90
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Just installed my LN magnetic plug today. It had the torque specs marked right in the plug in NMs
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Old 08-02-2020, 03:47 PM   #91
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For those who are interested in purchasing one, LN is selling the latest revision which has the torque spec and their logo laser etch(not grooved) into their magnetic oil drain plug. It should help solve the problem for you; until the etching eventually wears off . The same one NJbray used.
Or you can buy the one that uses the same torque as the OE plug and eliminate any chance of someone getting it wrong.
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Old 08-02-2020, 03:57 PM   #92
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... As for the drain plugs, LN’s are not marked, while others are,...
And there lied the problem. Now they are marked so obviously they realized an improvement was needed. Even so, when the plug is covered in grime, you can't expect a tech to try to look for markings to see if it's an LN plug or OE so he can torque it accordingly. In a perfect world, maybe. It's best to just make a plug that matches the OE torque specs.

Also, one can't expect every tech or DIYer to identify every aftermarket bolt and know its torque spec. Not in the real world. Specialists, maybe.
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Old 08-02-2020, 04:09 PM   #93
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And now the really important question..........


What oil are you using?
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Old 08-02-2020, 04:20 PM   #94
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And now the really important question..........


What oil are you using?
We're 93 posts into this...who's ready for 93 more?
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Old 08-02-2020, 04:21 PM   #95
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And now the really important question..........


What oil are you using?
It doesn't matter, 'cause if you torque the plug to the wrong spec you'll lose it all anyway!
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Old 08-02-2020, 04:33 PM   #96
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Or you can buy the one that uses the same torque as the OE plug and eliminate any chance of someone getting it wrong.

I know you're playing devil's advocate here, good job, but in the real world it's 19 ft-lbs to torque the magnetic plugs from LN .

I have never used my magnetic drain plug and the OEM one I use requires 37 ft-lbs still. I've been fortunate to use Frodo's free new crush washers I offered for all my oil changes. I made sure that guy who guarantees the warranty to the work torques down correctly and knows the bolt/screw to use because I hate to go back into a job after I patted myself well done .

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Old 08-02-2020, 05:25 PM   #97
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I know you're playing devil's advocate here, good job, but in the real world it's 19 ft-lbs to torque the magnetic plugs from LN .
I guess you can call it that, but I had to respond when someone automatically lays the entire blame the operator. When in reality the operator may have had no way of knowing that there was an aftermarket plug and broke it when using OE torque specs. Simplest solution? Make the plug withstand the same torque as the OE.

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I have never used my magnetic drain plug and the OEM one I use requires 37 ft-lbs still. I've been fortunate to use Frodo's free new crush washers I offered for all my oil changes. I made sure that guy who guarantees the warranty to the work torques down correctly and knows the bolt/screw to use because I hate to go back into a job after I patted myself well done .
Haha! I get that totally! I hate doing a job twice.
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Old 08-02-2020, 05:47 PM   #98
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Geeeeeez, I wish I’d never stumbled into this thread.

After 11 years of virtually trouble-free oil changing experiences with my magnetic plug (sans torque wrench!) I’m just sure it’s all gonna go to hell in a handbasket from here on out.

You and me both...

All this for a magnetic drain plug on an aluminum engine block. Most people on here when they get all concerned about metal shavings in their filters the metal shavings are bronze/brass in nature (guide failure??? IDK I've never been inside a flat 6 engine).

I mean you pull your drain plug out and its covered with iron shavings; you've already had problems. Like doing 5 laps WOT and then seeing your oil pressure is 0.
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Old 08-02-2020, 05:51 PM   #99
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Well okay then. I may re-think my approach on these..

On the drain plugs...do you have a different set of torque values depending on new crush washer vs old crush washer?

NO NEED TO RESPOND ON THAT ONE!
Yes, a simple one: We don’t reuse crush washers.
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Old 08-02-2020, 05:53 PM   #100
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And there lied the problem. Now they are marked so obviously they realized an improvement was needed. Even so, when the plug is covered in grime, you can't expect a tech to try to look for markings to see if it's an LN plug or OE so he can torque it accordingly. In a perfect world, maybe. It's best to just make a plug that matches the OE torque specs.

Also, one can't expect every tech or DIYer to identify every aftermarket bolt and know its torque spec. Not in the real world. Specialists, maybe.
Which is the world I live in.

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