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Old 07-27-2020, 10:03 AM   #41
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watch how quietly and with little drama he goes about helping the forum members.
I guess implying that those who don't think the way he does fall out of bed head-first is 'little drama" in your opinion?

Or maybe it just wasn't one if his better moments?

Either way, I was joking in my response and I hope he understands that.

By the way, it was also aimed at 10/10ths, who implied that re-using a crush washer puts your engine at risk. A 2-fer, if you will. I'm extending a peace offering to him as well.

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Old 07-27-2020, 10:47 AM   #42
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Honestly I am not a hard core washerist; I do have a couple baggies of them in various sizes, but I also may have on occasion picked a used one off the garage floor and stuck it on a plug before tightening it with Vice-Grips.

The discussion was getting a little polarized, so I just thought it would be fun to give it a push.
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Old 07-27-2020, 11:09 AM   #43
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The discussion was getting a little polarized, so I just thought it would be fun to give it a push.
Been known to do that on occasion myself!
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Old 07-27-2020, 11:12 AM   #44
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This will be too funny if the source of njbray's leaking oil problem is not the LN magnetic plug as suspected but the re-use of the crush washer that has taken over this thread. No that will not prove anything but stir up the discussion.

To torque or not to torque? To new or to re-use? Those are the questions.
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Old 07-27-2020, 12:01 PM   #45
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I get it that it's soft metal, but when I think crush washers I think rolled metal ones that are hollow inside and flatten as you tighten them.

I guess aluminum is more like the cheap version of brass washers.
I can't remember the last time I saw a crush washer of the type you're describing. I HAVE seen them, so I know what you're talking about, but all I've ever seen used over the last 30 years (including factory parts for Porsche & Ferrari) is the Flat Washer of (usually) aluminum, but occasionally copper. (Never brass. Alu and Cu are MUCH more malleable than brass).

Here's the Porsche Brand washer for the referenced application, you'll note it is a flat, alu washer.
https://www.pelicanparts.com/More_Info/90012310630OEM.htm?pn=900-123-106-30-OEM&bt=Y&fs=0&SVSVSI=1052

Where do YOU buy a crush-washer of the type you're describing?
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Old 07-27-2020, 12:35 PM   #46
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Now, a crush-washer-under-pressure, like on a banjo-bolt or other similar installation, yeah, I'm MUCH more finicky about those. Many years ago, I bought an assortment and stuck it on the shelf. I Literally have a lifetime supply of crush-washers on the shelf, but I still reuse the crush-washer on the oil-pan.... until it gets lost.

Pressure and no pressure (head pressure of less than 15cm is no pressure) 100% different scenarios. I agree.

I ALWAYS use new flat copper or aluminum washers on brake fittings. Oil fittings... sometimes.

I heard an old hillbillie tell me one time you can anneal the copper back into shape and re-use a copper washer. But copper washers like cotter pins are so cheap and plentiful why not just buy a new one. I guess if I was stranded in a desert I could use that information???
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Old 07-27-2020, 02:14 PM   #47
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Pressure and no pressure (head pressure of less than 15cm is no pressure) 100% different scenarios. I agree.

I ALWAYS use new flat copper or aluminum washers on brake fittings. Oil fittings... sometimes.

I heard an old hillbillie tell me one time you can anneal the copper back into shape and re-use a copper washer. But copper washers like cotter pins are so cheap and plentiful why not just buy a new one. I guess if I was stranded in a desert I could use that information???
Yes you can anneal copper washers.
Heat to cherry read and quench in water.

You can anneal aluminum washers.
blacken with a magic marker.
heat just until the magic marker burns off.
Air cool room temp.

Working copper or aluminum work hardens both.
To the point where they become brittle and crack.
Annealing them takes both back to there normal malleable state

There are times when you just can't buy what your looking for.
maybe a washer of a certain size and thickness.

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Old 07-27-2020, 02:19 PM   #48
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I can't remember the last time I saw a crush washer of the type you're describing. I HAVE seen them, so I know what you're talking about...

Where do YOU buy a crush-washer of the type you're describing?
Subaru still uses them. In fact, IIRC, that's the first time I heard the term 'crush washer' so naturally that's what I think of when I hear it.

https://www.amazon.com/Genuine-Subaru-803916010-Gasket-Pack/dp/B00IW33NRO/ref=asc_df_B00IW33NRO/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=241948264947&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=4423746194248373463&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9005888&hvtargid=pla-449381752974&psc=1

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...Never brass. Alu and Cu are MUCH more malleable than brass...
I always thought they used brass washers on banjo bolts and the like. Maybe it was copper, or a copper alloy that had a brass color.
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Old 07-27-2020, 02:50 PM   #49
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Peace....

....My point was only that LN lists a torque spec in their instructions.

The torque spec is there for a reason. The reason being that if you OVER torque their magnetic drain plug, the magnetic insert will “spin” inside the plug body and you will develop an oil leak.

That is why you SHOULD use a torque wrench EVERY time on the LN magnetic drain plug. The other issue is that their drain plug has a LOWER torque spec than the OEM drain plug.

So, you have a tool that can tell you exactly what the torque is. It just seems logical that you would want to ensure your car doesn’t develop an oil leak.

As far as the crush washer, well....yeah, you should use a new one every time. The idea is that they CRUSH upon use. So logically, you want one that has not been crushed when you replace it.

Crush washers are less than a dollar each. When you order an oil filter, order a dozen crush washers and you are set for years.

It’s really simple.

My point was that if you invested in a Porsche, invest a few bucks on crush washers and a torque wrench and keep her happy.

That was all.

The cost of ownership includes service.

It’s like guys who buy Mustangs and complain that the rear tires cost $200.

Buying a “cheap” old Boxster gets real expensive if you don’t properly maintain her.

That is what my “washers are cheap and engines are expensive” comment was all about.

Cheers, everyone.

Enjoy the drive.
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Old 07-27-2020, 03:17 PM   #50
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As this thread has demonstrated, we don't fully agree here—I have had/used the LN magnetic plug since Aug, 2009, and have never once used a torque wrench on it. And I do think I've kept my machine "happy," notwithstanding having recycled a few crush rings.

That said, I do understand, and respect, what you're saying.

Cheers as well. I will enjoy the drive, have been for 14 years...what's not to enjoy??
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Old 07-27-2020, 03:19 PM   #51
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Awesome!

Watch out for the cops.

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Old 07-27-2020, 03:27 PM   #52
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As this thread has demonstrated, we don't fully agree here
And that's not necessarily a bad thing. Can you imagine how boring that would be?

I respect everyone's input here, whether I agree with it or not. And I can take (and throw) friendly jabs here and there. But I have no personal animus towards anyone.

Right back atcha: Cheers all!
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Old 07-27-2020, 03:43 PM   #53
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Maytag!

A few rousing verses of Kumbaya, please!
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Old 07-27-2020, 05:45 PM   #54
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Old 07-28-2020, 04:30 AM   #55
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It’s ALL good....

.....we DO get along.

No animosity here.

Every once in a while somebody loses their mind. But that is really not very often.

I have learned soooooo much from this forum. I just try to pay it forward when I see a post that I have personal knowledge about.

Cheers!
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Old 07-28-2020, 07:37 AM   #56
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I can't remember the last time I saw a crush washer of the type you're describing. I HAVE seen them, so I know what you're talking about, but all I've ever seen used over the last 30 years (including factory parts for Porsche & Ferrari) is the Flat Washer of (usually) aluminum, but occasionally copper. (Never brass. Alu and Cu are MUCH more malleable than brass).

Here's the Porsche Brand washer for the referenced application, you'll note it is a flat, alu washer.
https://www.pelicanparts.com/More_Info/90012310630OEM.htm?pn=900-123-106-30-OEM&bt=Y&fs=0&SVSVSI=1052

Where do YOU buy a crush-washer of the type you're describing?
When I changed out the oil on my Toyota FJ Cruiser diffs and transfer case, a couple of the Toyota washers were like this (and a couple weren't...) I thought it was odd that they all weren't the same, but with the rolled edge you could really see and feel it crush down when you tightened it.
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Old 07-28-2020, 08:22 AM   #57
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When I changed out the oil on my Toyota FJ Cruiser diffs and transfer case, a couple of the Toyota washers were like this (and a couple weren't...) I thought it was odd that they all weren't the same, but with the rolled edge you could really see and feel it crush down when you tightened it.
yeah, probably like most items, they source from the cheapest mfr with the same spec.

I honestly can't remember the last time I saw a crush-washer like that though. (I've never owned a toyota, believe it or not! I might need to rectify that soon!)
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Old 07-28-2020, 10:35 AM   #58
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Wink

Maytag,

Look at the washer on a spark plug.
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Old 07-28-2020, 11:19 AM   #59
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Maytag,



Look at the washer on a spark plug.
Yeah, but that's an entirely different situation. And, while I get that it IS, I've certainly never referred to that as a crush washer. ;-)

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Old 07-28-2020, 04:32 PM   #60
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Not related to this reuse-not-to-reuse debate, but maybe helpful for the OP: I struggled a lot with the oil lines on my motorcycle where I fitted a pressure gauge with banjos. I tried copper and aluminum flat washers, but they all leaked, because the pressure is high at those lines and the thread at the banjo bolt didn`t withstand high torque. So I found these aluminum crush washers with a rubber insert and they worked perfectly. It creates a very good seal even when tightened to a low torque. Newer Japanese bikes use it for brake lines. For example:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Oil-Drain-Plug-Metal-Rubber-MR21-Crush-Seal-Washer-Set-of-10-for-Toyota-Lexus/273351435154?hash=item3fa503e392:g:LmkAAOSwSixbRtm 6

Definitely not reusable.

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