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Old 09-19-2018, 10:58 AM   #1
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About to pull trigger on IMS job - can I get some opinions?

Hey guys -

So my indy (Bay Area, CA) quoted me $3,340 for the IMS bearing from LN, clutch kit, and the miscellaneous parts.
Break Down:
- Clutch Kit - $831
- LN IMS Bearing - $849
- Labor - 9.7hrs @150/hr = $1,470

A - Does this seem like a fair estimate? Is the Sachs clutch kit of comparable quality?
B - Is there anything else I should have him look at / do while he's in there?
C - I've replaced basically everything on my front and rear suspension DIY - how challenging would this be to do myself? Obviously I don't want to f-up my car, but it would be rewarding and I could save about $2k by doing it myself.
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Old 09-19-2018, 11:24 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speedyspaghetti View Post
Hey guys -

So my indy (Bay Area, CA) quoted me $3,340 for the IMS bearing from LN, clutch kit, and the miscellaneous parts.
Break Down:
- Clutch Kit - $831
- LN IMS Bearing - $849
- Labor - 9.7hrs @150/hr = $1,470

A - Does this seem like a fair estimate? Is the Sachs clutch kit of comparable quality?
B - Is there anything else I should have him look at / do while he's in there?
C - I've replaced basically everything on my front and rear suspension DIY - how challenging would this be to do myself? Obviously I don't want to f-up my car, but it would be rewarding and I could save about $2k by doing it myself.
The RMS is a no brainer and I'm not sure if the kit includes the release bearing or not. Also, scrutize the flywheel. Not every mechanic does but while you are in there . . . . Pricy but while you are in there . . .

I had the whole works done plus a brake/clutch fluid change 2 years ago and it came to ~$5K CDN so using today's exchange rate that is ~$3,800 USD. So considering the flywheel your $3,349 doesn't sound too bad.

PS Mine has the Sachs and it works beautifully.
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Old 09-19-2018, 12:02 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by speedyspaghetti View Post
C - I've replaced basically everything on my front and rear suspension DIY - how challenging would this be to do myself? Obviously I don't want to f-up my car, but it would be rewarding and I could save about $2k by doing it myself.
I think that looks like a fair estimate. Based on the time I know it took me, yeah that seems about right.

Can you do it? hmmm.... tougher question. I tend to think EVERYONE can do the same stuff I can. But the weird thing is that I would NEVER assume that I can do everything YOU can..... so clearly my logic is flawed, haha.

Suspension is relatively simple, compared to transaxle removal / clutch /IMSB/ replacement. But the Pelican book is very thorough in the step-by step instructions. I would go read through the procedure they've outlined, including each step of the "other required" processes they point you to. If you have the tools to do each of those steps, and you can be patient enough to do them all correctly, you'll probably do just fine on it.

That's my opinion only. And you know what those are worth, right?

Also: the sachs clutch is just great. But I agree with Paulofto: be sure they check your flywheel. It's a dual-mass unit and is known to wear-out the interface between the two "masses". Mine was shot, and that was all the excuse I needed to do the LWFW (which then necessitated a MUCH more expensive clutch... dangit).
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Old 09-19-2018, 12:03 PM   #4
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Not sure if yours have been done, but the AOS & coolant tank are easier to swap out with transmission removed.
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Old 09-19-2018, 12:05 PM   #5
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Looks about the right cost.
I would also add the RMS and a Waterpump & maybe a low temp Thermostat whilst he's under there!
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Old 09-19-2018, 12:11 PM   #6
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Sachs clutch kit is $300-$350. Unless that part quote includes a flywheel, it is very high.
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Old 09-19-2018, 02:06 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paulofto View Post
The RMS is a no brainer and I'm not sure if the kit includes the release bearing or not. Also, scrutize the flywheel. Not every mechanic does but while you are in there . . . . Pricy but while you are in there . . .

I had the whole works done plus a brake/clutch fluid change 2 years ago and it came to ~$5K CDN so using today's exchange rate that is ~$3,800 USD. So considering the flywheel your $3,349 doesn't sound too bad.

PS Mine has the Sachs and it works beautifully.
He said the RMS is no problem, but also suggested the EPS RMS solution kit - does anyone have experience with this? Is it worth the cost over just replacing with an oem RMS?
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Old 09-19-2018, 02:08 PM   #8
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Looks about the right cost.
I would also add the RMS and a Waterpump & maybe a low temp Thermostat whilst he's under there!
Isn't there something with the tensioners / variocam that should be addressed while you're down there?
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Old 09-19-2018, 02:43 PM   #9
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He said the RMS is no problem, but also suggested the EPS RMS solution kit - does anyone have experience with this? Is it worth the cost over just replacing with an oem RMS?
Don't do it. This system requires machining the engine cases which is both risky and totally unnecessary, and locks you into using their seal only. The $20 factory PTFE seal will work just fine.
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Old 09-19-2018, 04:44 PM   #10
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I just did one on my buddy's 2005 987 S also using the LN bearing and if the clutch kit includes the flywheel, clutch disc, and replacing the throw out bearing and ball pin I would say the labor time is fair.

We also replaced the seals/o-ring behind the throw out assembly. Also, remind your indy about the triple square housing fastener to make sure he has the right tool.
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Old 09-19-2018, 05:20 PM   #11
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I would read from the Pelican book for a general idea but I would strongly suggest following the instructions that match the bearing you are going to use. LNs instructions have gone through multiple revisions based on user suggestions. I'd feel good using those.

The Porsche or LN RMS seal is an improved part. Cheap.

Agree AOS if you don't know the age of the one you have. And maybe the engine mounts.
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Old 09-20-2018, 06:41 AM   #12
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All the stuff you need to do can be accessed with the engine still in the car. Just need to drop the transmission. I guess I"d do the research and see if this matches your mechanical ability and confidence level. You'll need to jack the car up pretty high to get room under there to work, jacks and jackstands are required. You'll need a jack to lower and raise the transmission, this isn't something you can just muscle up in there. Lining up the input shaft into the clutch can be difficult, but pilot tool and guide pins can make this possible.

I'm a senior, 66 years, and I would do it. Lots of muscle aches and plays up my arthritis. But I did my engine last winter (complete swap) and it was almost fun. Lots of puzzles. Here's what you should plan to replace while you're in there: Do the axle cv boots, motor mount, water pump, rms. The money you save can buy a new flywheel, and underdrive pulley, & a spin on oil filter adaptor. Coils and plugs, too.
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Old 09-20-2018, 06:44 AM   #13
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Isn't there something with the tensioners / variocam that should be addressed while you're down there?
NO! Don't open up the engine unless it's broke--it really opens a can of worms when you do.
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Old 09-20-2018, 08:38 AM   #14
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Couple of thoughts

1. Drop the sump and check to see if you have debris from the internal timing chain rails. If so, fixing the IMS will be a short term preventative. A failed chain rail will destroy the engine

2. Variocam chain pads are a wear item that can be replaced by taking off the valve covers - no need to open up the engine. The parts are cheap.
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Old 09-20-2018, 08:44 AM   #15
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I had the IMSB, Clutch and RMS replaced by my indy mechanic several years ago for around $2,200.00 all in. Just providing as a data point.
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Old 09-21-2018, 10:11 AM   #16
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Estimate from Union Line Garage in NJ earlier this year was $2,995 for the RMS and IMS using the LN part so if you are at $3,300 with a clutch job, it sounds fair.
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Old 09-21-2018, 10:39 AM   #17
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I had a dealer do mine (with LN) and clutch about 3 years ago...I think it was abou $3500.

As far as other things to do, any shop knowledgable with Porsche should be able to give you the laundry list. Have them beak it down to "must do", "should do", "while we're there" and "you could also" and you can select what you like. If you go crazy with the "full meal deal", they might offer some price incentives...or at least I would if someone came to me with the instruction of "fix anything you can think of, and take as long as you like".
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Old 09-21-2018, 02:32 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speedyspaghetti View Post
Hey guys -

So my indy (Bay Area, CA) quoted me $3,340 for the IMS bearing from LN, clutch kit, and the miscellaneous parts.
Break Down:
- Clutch Kit - $831
- LN IMS Bearing - $849
- Labor - 9.7hrs @150/hr = $1,470

A - Does this seem like a fair estimate? Is the Sachs clutch kit of comparable quality?
B - Is there anything else I should have him look at / do while he's in there?
C - I've replaced basically everything on my front and rear suspension DIY - how challenging would this be to do myself? Obviously I don't want to f-up my car, but it would be rewarding and I could save about $2k by doing it myself.

I'm also in the Bay Area and will be needing a clutch/IMS job soon.
I'd be curious to hear about how it goes for you.
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Old 09-22-2018, 04:25 PM   #19
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Question - did you check the cam deviations with the durametic tool before changing the ims? If yes we're the steady or all over the place? Rick
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Old 09-22-2018, 05:46 PM   #20
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I had my IMS, RMS, clutch, water pump and general check up done by these guys four years ago - around $3400.
Not exactly Bay Area but they had looked after the car for about 10 years.

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