GT3 LCA Build - 986 Forum - The Community for Porsche Boxster & Cayman Owners

P_Carfahrer · 09-13-2018, 12:24 AM

I have been looking at GT3 style LCAs for some time and have wanted to model some up but have not had a part to look at until recently. Attached pictures are modeled using a stock GT3 inner and outer but with 14mm spherical bearings (monoballs) at both ends and Tarett style solid thrust bushings. I will build sets for both front and rear out of 7075 for the inner and outer arms and thrust bushings and 4340 for the monoball spacers.
Ideas, comments, corrections from the wealth of knowledge of the board would be great.
I look to do this over the next months for this winter’s project and will document the design, build, and install with you all.

jaykay · 09-13-2018, 10:33 AM

Nice work man! Don't forget the Litronic linkage.....some may want that.

For something like this, folks will want to see loads of testing..

thstone · 09-13-2018, 12:05 PM

Very cool! I love innovation and someone trying do something new.

With that being said, have you done a cost breakdown yet? Materials + machining setup & hours + quality checks/inspection + assy + etc, etc.

I would send out the drawings to machine shops to get formal quotes (not estimates or ROM's, but real quotations) before investing much more time into anything. In my experience, I am always surprised at the (high cost) quotes that I get back.

The Radium King · 09-13-2018, 12:21 PM

something like this might be less complicated to fabricate - no cnc, just welding ...

https://www.tarett.com/items/986-987-981-718-products/986-987-981-718-suspension/986-987-981-718-control-arms/pro-series-control-arm-kit-erp-lca-detail.htm

P_Carfahrer · 09-13-2018, 02:23 PM

A more custom or radical LCA design for the build was something I was not prepared to do from a time and testing perspective. Maybe after successfully building these a tube syle could be possible.

For this reason the inner/outer are modeled directly from the stock GT3 LCA dimensions to leverage Porsche factory engineering with the only difference being a larger 14mm spherical bearing in both ends. Fasteners will be 12.9 grade. 4340 spacers will be hardened.

From a cost view I am designer, machinist for the simpler parts (thrust bushing/monoball spacers), and assembler. Both my next door neighbor and my best friend's brother both own local machining shops where we will build the inners/outers for a few cases of beer and pizza.

I will also model different thickness spacers when I get my hands on a stock one to get the profile dimensions. Do any of you have knowledge of what the most useful thicknesses would be?

Jay, to incorporate a Litronic sensor, wouldn't one just need to get the a Litronic spacer?

Quadcammer · 09-13-2018, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Radium King

something like this might be less complicated to fabricate - no cnc, just welding ...

https://www.tarett.com/items/986-987-981-718-products/986-987-981-718-suspension/986-987-981-718-control-arms/pro-series-control-arm-kit-erp-lca-detail.htm

Im installing a set of these right now. Nice pieces with endless adjustment

P_Carfahrer · 09-19-2018, 05:27 PM

I have cleaned some stuff up to facilitate cutting, (chamfers instead of outside fillets and purely cosmetic profiles for example), and modeled the spacer and got the mating geometry good.

I added four ¼” cuts 90 degrees from each other in the thrust bushing as I wondered how I would rotate the screwed together bushings to adjust caster without some tool. I imagined four because as the bushing rotates having more could be good as the tension arm might rotate over the cut if I only had one. In checking other bushing pictures, as far as I can determine only Elephant has a hex key cutout for what I think would be used for this purpose. I do not have any experience with adjusting caster bushings and don’t know if a cut for a tool to help rotate the bushing is really needed. I circled one of the four cuts in red in one picture. Anybody have any thoughts on whether the cuts could be useful or are they unnecessary?

P_Carfahrer · 12-05-2018, 08:09 PM

Finally getting some parts built. 1mm, 2mm, and 3mm shims waterjetted and now needs deburring and anodizing. 10mm and 15mm sheets going on next week with 5mm, 7mm, and 8mm to follow.

I sourced decent sized metric sheets to cut and have quite a few shims after anodizing if anyone needs some cheap.

P_Carfahrer · 12-17-2018, 06:48 PM

More shims...

15mm, 10mm, and 8mm...

Spherical bearing insert adapter bushings starting next week..

Robert986 · 12-18-2018, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quadcammer

Im installing a set of these right now. Nice pieces with endless adjustment

Nice stuff, but what the heck do they mean by: " this no compromise design the center geometry can also be adjusted to correct for lower ride heights."

On McPherson, when ride hight is lowered beyond the point where the LCA are vertical you will get a positiv (not good) effect on camber, also the roll center will become higher.
How will those Tarrett control arms compensate for that, Idon´t see that it is possible.

Educate me..

The Radium King · 12-18-2018, 11:01 AM

not sure, but if your camber is controlled by extending/retracting the control arm, then you can use the inner eccentric to raise/lower the control arm inboard attachment point to compensate for changes in coil over length.

Quadcammer · 12-18-2018, 02:27 PM

they may also be referring to the use of shims to control anti-dive/squat on the diagonal control arms. perhaps some marketing fluff in there

jaykay · 12-18-2018, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert986

Nice stuff, but what the heck do they mean by: " this no compromise design the center geometry can also be adjusted to correct for lower ride heights."

On McPherson, when ride hight is lowered beyond the point where the LCA are vertical you will get a positiv (not good) effect on camber, also the roll center will become higher.
How will those Tarrett control arms compensate for that, Idon´t see that it is possible.

Educate me..

I believe they are referring to roll centre. I have not reviewed the component or its adjustments but you would have to be able to change the position pivot (up or down) points to affect roll centre position.

No one ever talks about this adjustment but theoretically it will have a massive influence on a vehicles handling during cornering as it is essentially the roll axis of the vehicle. Its position relative to the CG is what is critical. You want to aim the arm such that the roll centre is closer to the CG. This will yield a reduced roll moment.

Edit: I just had a look and they do mention roll centre at the very end of the description; I cant quite see but I would think the pivot position adjustment would some how be incorporated at the outboard end with a spacer of some sort

P_Carfahrer · 10-25-2019, 02:41 PM

I am getting close. Everything is done but the inner bearing housing. Starting to cut them this weekend hopefully.

Outers/Inners are 7075-T651 with FK Com12T-F1 spherical bearings. All bushings are 4340 which along with fasteners I will nickel/cobalt plate and relief bake. The outers are modeled directly from stock 996 GT3 arms incorporating spherical bearings with one additional stiffening rib on the under side between the thrust bushing and bearing bore. Outers will be hard anodized black with the inners hard anodized red and blue.

Outers incorporate 14mm hardware.

Shims are hard anodized 6061 aluminum.

Thrust bushings are hard anodized red/blue and have 1/4" drive holes to use to rotate the bushings for caster adjustment.

Some pics.

Gilles · 10-25-2019, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P_Carfahrer

I am getting close. Everything is done but the inner bearing housing. Starting to cut them this weekend hopefully.

Outers/Inners are 7075-T651 with FK Com12T-F1 spherical bearings. All bushings are 4340 which along with fasteners I will nickel/cobalt plate and relief bake. The outers are modeled directly from stock 996 GT3 arms incorporating spherical bearings with one additional stiffening rib on the under side between the thrust bushing and bearing bore. Outers will be hard anodized black with the inners hard anodized red and blue.

Outers incorporate 14mm hardware.

Shims are hard anodized 6061 aluminum.

Thrust bushings are hard anodized red/blue and have 1/4" drive holes to use to rotate the bushings for caster adjustment.

Wow, these control arms look beautiful, exotic, and expensive..

How is their weight compared to the GT3 arms?

P_Carfahrer · 10-26-2019, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gilles

Wow, these control arms look beautiful, exotic, and expensive..

How is their weight compared to the GT3 arms?

Machined aluminum like this is to me what diamonds are to women. I can't stop looking at it.

Cost has been a few hundred bucks for material and pizza and beer money while with my friend at his machine shop over some nights/weekends with plating in my garage and for you Gilles half price.

Weight should be comparable to stock but I don't have the stock arm anymore as I borrowed it to make the models and can't find where I noted how much they weighed. It might be a little more with the bottom outer misalignment spacer.

Next builds after LCAs are done and ready to go.

P_Carfahrer · 11-02-2020, 03:14 PM

Look what Halloween raised from the dead....

I was able to get to the last NASA event at Utah Motorsports Campus a few weeks ago and it was awesome to see cars and hang with great people.

It has now been a year since I was really on the forum. Winter projects and skiing with the kids consumed my time until mid March. Since then dealing with Covid in my business has been a like adding a second job to my work and I essentially put everything on the shelf from then on.

Well, attending the last day at the track this year has served as a bit of a renewal of sorts to get everything done and on the track next year. Covid be damned...

Before Covid hit I finished the LCAs and they have sat on my shop shelf.

I also finished the toe-control arms and caster arm forks. Tie-rods are almost done.

Here are some pics of the finished LCAs. As soon as the snow flies here, the car is going up on stands and the tear down and rebuild begins. Blue and red represents a sample of the sets I built. The blue has a 10mm spacer and the red has a 15mm spacer.