Bloody boxster falling apart

[blue2000s]

Originally Posted by MNBoxster

Hi,

I have had no problems to-date (hard as that may be to believe with a Car with only 25k mi. on the Odo), but this car is seriously flawed from a design and engineering standpoint. I have owned everything from Morgans, TR3s, XKEs, 240Zs, 328s, 2002Tiis, Elans, Europas, Esprits, MGs, Fiats, Healeys, Minis (real not BMW), and a couple other Porsches. If you have late-model Boxster money, I would seriously consider any number of alternatives before settling on the Boxster. It's a GREAT car to drive, but IMHO, it carries too much baggage to make ownership worthwhile for all but the shortest time...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

Are you saying that you fear that the Boxster is less reliable than a Lotus, Morgan, old Ferrari Triumph or Healey? I'd be very surpised if you say that none of them had an oil leak or questionable electronics. Was the maintanence of the Ferrari actually less costly than the Boxster? Please share more.

[MNBoxster]

Originally Posted by blue2000s

Are you saying that you fear that the Boxster is less reliable than a Lotus, Morgan, old Ferrari Triumph or Healey? I'd be very surpised if you say that none of them had an oil leak or questionable electronics. Was the maintanence of the Ferrari actually less costly than the Boxster? Please share more.

Hi,

That is not what I'm saying exactly. The issues with the Brit Cars were annoying, not life-threatening. And, remember, these cars were of a technology that was essentially from the 1940's and '50's where Metallurgy, Machining and Production techniques were not nearly so advanced as today. And, the Brit Cars were both easy and cheap to fix.

With today's available technology and the price tag of the Boxster, the issues with this car are inexcusable, even more inexcusable for a company with the engineering legacy of Porsche.

So far as my own cars are concerned, I have never had one of them fail to start or strand me. Maintenance has always been performed properly and timely. I was knowledgeable enough to cull the Dogs from the Cremepuffs when I bought them, but with the Boxster, there isn't really any way to do this.

A seemingly perfect car can lose the RMS or Intermediate shaft with no advance warning, neither easy or cheap to fix. The worst thing which ever happened to one of my cars was an intake leak caused a lean condition in my Esprit and the #4 Piston melted. But, I was able to totally rebuild the engine myself in 3 weeks (due to turnaround time at the Machine and Turbo Shops) for under $1,500. 28k mi. later, the car is as reliable as ever and has not experienced even a 1PSI drop in compression on any cylinder. I put slightly over 20k mi. on my Ferrari without a single issue aside from routine maintenance (this model and engine are known as the most reliable though). My 240Z I still own and have owned since new (every available option for '71 with a Sticker Price of $3,045.00), 23k mi. on the ODO and not a speck of rust on it, though I concede that it isn't driven in rain or snow, ever. And, that to make weight (for the SCCA Classes they expected to compete in), Datsun used a lighter weight and lighter gauge Steel making them prone to corrosion.

Some are surprised that I have praised the Boxster while condemning it at the same time. Well, it's quite simple; the Boxster is a Great Driver, but not a good car to own unless you have deep pockets and some mechanical skill to keep it on the road.

Many cars which can hit the edge of the envelope are less robust, often because this is how they derive their exceptional performance. But, the Boxster doesn't reach those heights (many cars available today will outperform it), but it is less robust than it should be. And, we're not talking about faulty power windows here, but serious design flaws in the engine which have remained unaddressed for a decade.

Many cars have flaws, the Datsun is prone to overheating and the Esprit had a tendency for it's Cast Iron Exhaust Manifold to crack, but these issues can be eliminated with aftermarket or upgraded parts such as switching to a Turbo Oil pump and 4-core radiator on the Z and a SS Tubular header for the Esprit (designed, built, and sold by Neil Mickelwright- GM of Forsythe Racing, and a fellow Esprit owner and personal friend). But, the flaws in the Boxster cannot be eliminated, only fixed each time they fail.

And, there's little logic in the statements of some noting flaws in other cars. These may well exist, but the fact that these cars are also flawed, maybe even more flawed, does not alleviate the flaws in the Boxster. It's of little comfort to a Boxster owner to know that the Bimmer, Audi or Vette suffer from some deficiency when they have a $3000 bill for a failed RMS in their hand.

I do not concede that the newer cars are any better. The same engine is used fundamentally unchanged. If the newer cars haven't failed, I say they haven't failed yet. As a whole, they will have accumulated fewer miles than the earlier models. I recently spoke with both the area PCNA Service Rep and the Gen'l. Mgr. of one of the local dealerships at a local event, and the Service Rep said RMS failure is in the 20-22% range depending upon model year, and that it affects all models. The Gen'l. Mgr. said that the quality issues are starting to affect sales as well.

Of the 4 local Boxster owners whom I know personally, three of the four cars have had RMS Failure. One required engine replacement, another failed twice and the third (mine), had the seal replaced at 4k mi. and it's still holding (knock on wood). But, that's a 75% failure rate. I realize that this is far from a statistically relevant sample, but even so, it's too high to be insignificant.

I believe that this is one of the reasons for the rapid depreciation of the Boxster and why so many people can pick them up cheap. But people need to know that a $20k Boxster can become a $30k Boxster with no warning, and for $30k, there are a lot more reliable Sports Cars to be had.

Porsche is living on borrowed time and a past reputation (I do not count the RS Spyder in ALMS or the Race-Bred 911s because they bear no resemblance to the street Porsches at all). These do not even use the M96 engine - I wonder what Porsche knows that we don't?

I don't believe that burying one's head in the sand or putting a Pollyanna face on it does any service to potential owners. Many will still be willing to risk the downside to gain the upside, but they need to be informed of these real and potential problems. I care NOTHING for the Bling Factor or Prestige of owning a Porsche, I've owned cars from most of the prestigeous marques out there in my time, most good, some not so good. I want a fun car with some performance, style, and reliability which isn't going to put me on Prozac or in the Poor House and the Boxster simply isn't the one. It gives outstanding performance, but so far as reliability, it simply fails to deliver.

Those of you on the board for some time can attest that we see a failed Ignition lock, maybe monthly, a failed MAF sensor maybe every other month and a failed RMS at least once every 3 mos. Many may disagree with me now, condemning me for stating that the Emperor has no clothes, but I suspect that in time, I'll gain a few converts...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

[eslai]

I don't know, I keep thinking about my friend's GranSport that keeps frying $12,000 hydraulic clutches. It seems to me that any of the nicer, newer sports cars tend to fall to pieces.

BUt yes, for $60,000 I'd expect it to be a little more resilient. Then again, my girlfriend bought a 2006 Civic and the difference between her car and mine is palpable--I didn't think the 987 was very well-engineered until I saw the little annoyances in the Civic.

[rteichman]

Well after yesterday's experience I feel I must chime in on this subject. I was out enjoying driving my car when I pulled into a restaurant for a bite. Noticing the sudden appearance of dark clouds I parked, pulled the parking brake and pressed the top close button.... nothing happened!! After a frantic check of everything I noticed that the "PARK" light was not comming on. Thus the top would not operate... I look at the sky and its getting darker. So I race out of the place and head for home as fast as possible, but alas the rain started before I made it back to my garage and I got quite wet. After I calmed down I had the ash tray out and was mucking about with the wires to the brake switch and it started to work again so I got the top up.

I am ready to sell the car! Why you ask? It was such a minor thing. Well it reminds me too much of my 68 MGB. Like this car, any time I want to take it out it has a problem that needs to be addressed. I can't stand that. Especially after comming from a Miata which in 140,000 miles and 14 years of age never had a single problem. With this car:

A couple weeks after buying the car I decide to take it out on a Saturday night and show it off to my friends in Philly. On my way down I stop for gas only to notice that its low on oil. It was fine when I got the car a few weeks ago. It turned out to be nothing but my evening was wrecked worrying about the possible RMS problem.

Next I am driving for a weekend getaway when my brak wear indicator light goes on. When I bought the car I knew the brakes were low, but the mechanic assured me I had a good 6 months of wear left before the light would come one, and a year before it would be below state limits. I had only put maybe 500 miles on the car at this point, so I was not expecting the issue. My weekend was ruined by worries about the brakes.

Another Friday night and I am about to go down to Philly for the evening when my I notice my water light was flashing. I go back home, pop the trunk, check the level only to find that its OK. I restart the car and the light never comes on. But my evening is now wrecked worrying about what could be wrong. The next day the light flashes again. I check the level...its the same, I check for leaked fluid but don't find anything so I add some fluid and the flashing light problem stops... However the damage has been done, and why did it flash in the first place (the level was midway between low and max)

Then yesterday's fiasco with the rain. I am now terrified of taking the car out. What will happen next? With my Miata there was nothing ever to fix. Even my Audi (which must be one of the least reliable cars around) hasn't let me down to this extent. I am sorry, but there is no excuse for loose wiring/connection on a brake switch. Especially on a car with only 46,000 miles.

Rob

[Brucelee]

Those Miatas are bullet proof I understand. I can relate, I had a couple of Lexus' that ruined me for all cars German.

Yet, I still have a Porsche and BMW in the garage.

Go figure.

just to get back to the original post, i had the serpentine belt broken too, either it snapped the water pump or vice versa, water pump shaft broke and tore the belt, the belt drives everything on the car it seems, so if you have a problem with it surely something else will break.

i understand all your opinions about the Porsches in general, but there is a bigger amount of cars without problems to ones with, so far i can say no major problem on my S, the belt story was on a 97 2.5L, and of course on a forum we do talk about problems that need sorted out rather than just happy motoring!

[mikefocke]

Sounds to me like you bought a clapped-out car, got a PPI that was less then thorough, tried to skimp on maintenance and now are paying the price.

I bought a 2001 S with 42k miles, now 8k miles later my per month maintenance costs (not counting scheduled maintenance and wear and tear items like tires and brakes (which I did a week after purchase even though I could have gotten away with waiting) AVERAGES $7 PER MONTH.

Sorry your experience is not more positive.

[RandallNeighbour]

Originally Posted by MNBoxster

I believe that this is one of the reasons for the rapid depreciation of the Boxster and why so many people can pick them up cheap. But people need to know that a $20k Boxster can become a $30k Boxster with no warning, and for $30k, there are a lot more reliable Sports Cars to be had.

Well, I gotta chime in and say Amen! to this statement. Paid $15,500 for mine and I've put $10k into it thus far and just last night I heard some loud squeaking from the front end... it's probably a control arm or something else in the suspension. I'll drop no less than $500 getting it repaired.

I'm so deep into this car money-wise I can't see bailing on it now. However, if I have another $3k repair year after another and another, the car will be sold to the highest bidder on Ebay!

I'm not giving up on Porsches though. I just bought one that was too old.

[MikenOH]

"It's really too bad because I expected more of Porsche. My 912 and 914 2.0 of years gone by were much more robust, and frankly I am disappointed that Porsche actually seems to have gone backwards in terms of reliability than they were 25 years ago."

This is one point that has not been discussed enough. Are there any other Porsche models (911/944/928) that have the same type of weak points in engine design that the boxster seems to have that takes the engine with it when it fails (inter. shaft/ sleeved engine/porous block)?

I haven't owned an earlier 911 (993 and earlier) or a 944, but most of the owners in our club that bring their cars to track events have put lots of miles (+75K) on them without major rebuilds or , more importantly, engine failures.

The comment about a $20K Boxster becoming a $30K Boxster without warning seems spot on.

[Iatros]

My question to all of you is...

Are these problems more prevalent in the older ones? I expect out of any car that's 7 years old to have maintenance requirements, but out of.. say, a 2003?

[Perfectlap]

I'm coming from a bullet proof Miata with lots and lots of tweaks.

After 20,000 miles I have needed only one reapair: new throttle body.

The Boxster WILL NEVER be up to Japanese standards of reliability.
They just make tooooo many cars, the more you make the better it becomes.

Although they have their issues as well. The 1.8 Miata engine had the
most irritating lifter tap that no tinkering with oil could cure. It was enough
to make me want to sell the car that very same day to the first guy who
would offer me Ferrari 355 for it.

If you decide to get a Boxster(s) get at least a 2000. It sounds to me like most of these rants come from people who bought 97-99 Boxsters. Lots of changes were made begining in 2000 but the typical Porsche problems that effect even the 911's are still there. Try and find a car that has an extended warranty from Porsche or a related company and concentrate on finding a model with the lowest possible miles.

I can say that no other material object has done more to enhance my lifestyle.
I've made friends through Porsche Club, particpated in great events and generally taken for granted what many people have descirbed as their dream car.
To me its just a roadster that has excellent feedback and throttle response.
There are few alternatives of this quality.

[eslai]

Originally Posted by Perfectlap

Although they have their issues as well. The 1.8 Miata engine had the
most irritating lifter tap that no tinkering with oil could cure. It was enough
to make me want to sell the car that very same day to the first guy who
would offer me Ferrari 355 for it.

Don't forget about their thrust bearing problem back in 1999. But they at least took care of that one!

http://www.miata.net/solo/99miatathrustbearingfailure.html

[Ronzi]

If you dig hard enough you will find that every Porsche has weak points. Probably every CAR has weak points.
There is a whole book by Paul Zimmerman concerning the weak points of each variation of the 911. I think it is called "The Used 911 Story", and is invaluable if you are looking for one of those.

Basically what you've got here is a bunch of Toyota drivers who haven't yet adjusted to the fact that a Porsche is a whole 'nother ball game.

Oh, one other thing. If I remember Randall's story, he bought a Box for fifteen five when the going rate for his car was about twenty-five. What's the Pennzoil slogan, "Pay me now, or pay me later"?

[Brucelee]

"The Boxster WILL NEVER be up to Japanese standards of reliability.
They just make tooooo many cars, the more you make the better it becomes."

Sorry, that logic is NOT borne out my experience.

To wit:

The original Lexus ls400 was reliable from the get. Blame a great corporate culture, ie Toyota simply gets it right or fixes it right.

Porsche has made many thousands of Boxster engines over the 10 year run.

It is the culture that allows for the engine defects to go uncorrected, not the volume. It is simply an aspect of the German auto culture that blames picky customers rather than their engineers.

[Perfectlap]

yes you are right the Japanese are very demmanding when it comes to things working as close to 100%, 100% of the time. But they've also got some cars on the list of lemons. So maybe the German/American idiference is starting to creep in. And the prices of those Accords is getting weird.

I guess with the Japanese approach and the fact that a company like Toyota makes sooooo many cars, it has a trickle down effect to all their model lines. They have solutions for every conceivable gremlin that can surface which they can apply not only to their Lexus line but to their tercel as well.

Porsche building so few cars and insistent on manufacturing so much of it on their own even with a Japanese level committment to quality, will simply never meet the same end result if low cost maintenace and reliability is a paramount concern. The budgets just are too out of proportion. For what Porsche has done on such a limited scale compared to Honda's S2000 is not bad at all.

But of course if I have an RMS leak I will surely be singing a different tune.