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Old 04-12-2017, 01:15 PM   #1
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IMS Bearing -- Be careful when specifying a replacement

Specifying "LN" is not enough!

Make sure that when you have an IMS replacement bearing installed that your shop installs the updated bearing from LN Engineering. The "Classic Single Row," which I was surprised to learn is still sold, has a 4 year, 50k mile service life. The newer upgraded part, the "Single Row Pro" has a 6 year, 75k mileservice life. The "Pro" was introduced circa 2013-14. They both have the same retail price.

According to LN, the reason they continue to sell the Classic is that some (many?) shops want to continue using their existing installation tools and not make the outlay on new tools.

I knew enough to specify that i wanted an LN bearing installed. I didn't know that two versions of that bearing that fit my engine were being sold and installed, and that one was markedly inferior to the other.

The "Classic" that fits my engine has a part number of 100124200
The Single Row Pro has a part number of 106-08.2.2

If you go to the LN web site you come away with the impression that all you need to do is decide whether or not to spend the $ for their "Solution" product or just decide on LN and have your shop decide on the right part for your specific engine. Single or Dual row bearing, notably. Not a mention on that page that the "Classic" is still being sold and installed. In fact, if you go to the LN site and search for "Classic Single Row" the only hit you get is for a tool to install that product. You get no hits when searcing for the classic product by part number either (although that could be a function of how they format it). But its as if LN doesn't want consumers to know the old product exists and is still being sold.

Not a happy camper -- with either the shop that installed it or the company that made it.

Carlos

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Last edited by Cbonilla; 04-12-2017 at 02:02 PM.
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Old 04-12-2017, 03:16 PM   #2
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Specifying "LN" is not enough!


Not a happy camper -- with either the shop that installed it or the company that made it.

You may be correct to be unhappy that you did not ask the correct questions of the shop that did the installation, but LN sells what their customer's (primarily installers) want and ask for. Yes, a lot of shops do not want to pop for the Faultless Tools, which is to their and their customer's detriment as the Faultless Tool make every install quicker and less problem prone, particularly on single row cars. We have both tool sets, and the one everyone in the shop reaches for is the Faultless Tool, it is that much better.
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Old 04-12-2017, 03:33 PM   #3
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In a partial defense, I thought I had done my homework. From the LN site it seemed that there was just one bearing that would fit my car (other than the "Solution"). It was either a single row or a double row LN bearing, depending on my engine. Little did I know that LN was building the Classic on special order and had no mention of them on their website. Thus I felt safe in just specifyng "LN"

On a related question, in a conversation with LN I learned that I should have had a sticker applied attesting to the install having been performed. It's nowhere on my car. What should I ask of my installer? Would you view this as a concern?

Carlos

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Old 04-12-2017, 05:24 PM   #4
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...On a related question, in a conversation with LN I learned that I should have had a sticker applied attesting to the install having been performed. It's nowhere on my car. What should I ask of my installer? Would you view this as a concern?
Carlos
I have heard of the stickers being put in several different locations. Call and ask the shop. Mine is on the driver's door. It was also clearly/fully documented on my invoice.

If there is no sticker, do you really have any proof of what was (or wasn't) installed? Do you have a legitimate warranty?
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Old 04-12-2017, 05:44 PM   #5
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It doesn't help that Porsche has multiple generations nor that LN has multiple products for some generations and with similar names. SKU is the identifier you are looking to ask for, the stock keeping unit or product number.

A shop that has invested hundreds of dollars in tools is reluctant to replace them. No kidding.

But this thread is a useful reminder that you have to be very specific when asking for something. Reminds me I owe my landscaper a written specification before he does his work so we both know what we expect.
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Old 04-12-2017, 05:49 PM   #6
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At the time it was installed as part of an engine replacement my shop said that since it was just a 30 day warranty it wasn't worth the trouble of registering the warranty To the best of my knowledge all I have is a receipt from my shop with the part number written in as part of the invoice. Clearly I need to talk to my shop, but was curious as to how the community views my lack of documentation. I sent them an email at the end of the day and will call them tomorrow

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Old 04-12-2017, 05:53 PM   #7
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In the OPs defence, every Porsche enthusiast is aware of the imsb issue. Most even know that LN is the go-to brand for a replacement. Some know that there are different flavors of imsb, pro, solution, etc. Not too many are aware that there is still the single row "classic" bearing still offered by LN ( and apparently sold by Pelican?) which may be installed by your shop. Not that there is anything wrong with that bearing actually. But, as always, it's a case of caveat emptor.
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Old 04-12-2017, 06:14 PM   #8
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In a partial defense, I thought I had done my homework. From the LN site it seemed that there was just one bearing that would fit my car (other than the "Solution"). It was either a single row or a double row LN bearing, depending on my engine. Little did I know that LN was building the Classic on special order and had no mention of them on their website. Thus I felt safe in just specifyng "LN"

On a related question, in a conversation with LN I learned that I should have had a sticker applied attesting to the install having been performed. It's nowhere on my car. What should I ask of my installer? Would you view this as a concern?

Carlos
It is the only visible confirmation of the install on the car, I would say it is very important.
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Old 04-12-2017, 06:15 PM   #9
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Not that there is anything wrong with that bearing actually. But, as always, it's a case of caveat emptor.
Except that its service life is only2/3 that of the comparably priced Pro version.

And I've already stated that I thought I had covered my bases by only specifying LN when their web site made no mention of the classic still being sold

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Old 04-12-2017, 08:25 PM   #10
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. . . On a related question, in a conversation with LN I learned that I should have had a sticker applied attesting to the install having been performed. It's nowhere on my car. What should I ask of my installer? Would you view this as a concern?. . .
My LN sticker is on the drivers door. LN sends a sticker set to the installer along with the IMSB. One of the stickers is returned to LN with the install info and the other is placed on the car.

Prior to purchase, I confirmed with LN that my PO had a LN single row classic installed on my 2004 986 in 2016 per the LN serial number on my door sticker (I also have the shop invoice - $799 for the classic IMSB). Many shops that don't want to spend the money for the faultless tool opt to install the LN ceramic single row. I'm perfectly comfortable with the fact that I have the classic single row. If I decide to keep the 986 for the long term, I'll probably have 'the solution' installed at the next clutch change, but I'm not worried about the longevity of the classic single row in the least. I knew of the LN 'pro' and 'classic' offerings due to my research prior to purchase. The only reason I will go with the 'solution' the next time around (if I still have the car in 4 years) is because it is a 550 Anniversary Edition in excellent condition.

I would definitely demand proof of install and the LN serial number from your installer. It's SOP to supply this info to the client after the install and IMHO it is suspect that your car does not have the sticker w/serial number.

Your situation appears to stem from a lack of information / feedback / guidance provided to you by your installer rather than any misdirection by LN. LN is very clear in their literature regarding the Classic vs Pro (or at least they were when I did my research in Jan 2017).
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Old 04-12-2017, 10:23 PM   #11
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I have the LN sticker on the edge of my drivers door (similar to 78F350's photo) and also there should be a sticker on the shop/installers invoice. It seems very strange if you do not have them - LN make this a very important part of the IMS replacement process.
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Old 04-13-2017, 04:38 AM   #12
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Your situation appears to stem from a lack of information / feedback / guidance provided to you by your installer rather than any misdirection by LN. LN is very clear in their literature regarding the Classic vs Pro (or at least they were when I did my research in Jan 2017).
I'm not disputing that LN was very clear in their instructions to the installer regarding the IMS bearings. But I still disagree with LN holding themselves out as the brand name to ask for while not making it clear to the ultimate consumer that simply asking for an LN bearing was not necessarily going to get them the advertised product.
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Old 04-13-2017, 04:39 AM   #13
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I have the LN sticker on the edge of my drivers door (similar to 78F350's photo) and also there should be a sticker on the shop/installers invoice. It seems very strange if you do not have them - LN make this a very important part of the IMS replacement process.
That will be part of my discussion with the shop today
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Old 04-13-2017, 06:45 AM   #14
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I'm not disputing that LN was very clear in their instructions to the installer regarding the IMS bearings. But I still disagree with LN holding themselves out as the brand name to ask for while not making it clear to the ultimate consumer that simply asking for an LN bearing was not necessarily going to get them the advertised product.
Hi Carlos, I understand your frustration. Out of curiosity I just checked the LN website and current product PDF. While the LN product page and PDF no longer have a picture of the classic IMSB or show it in the products for sale as they did in January 2017, it is still listed on both their website and in the PDF - "Also available (not shown) Classic Single Row IMS and 06-08 IMS upgrade".

Good luck with your discussion with the shop that did the install, I hope they can at least assure you have a real LN bearing and that it can still be registered with LN.
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Old 04-13-2017, 07:03 AM   #15
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I have the LN sticker on the edge of my drivers door (similar to 78F350's photo) and also there should be a sticker on the shop/installers invoice. It seems very strange if you do not have them - LN make this a very important part of the IMS replacement process.
+1 My sticker is on the inside of the rear trunk lid and one on the actual shop invoice.
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Old 04-13-2017, 08:02 AM   #16
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Specifying "LN" is not enough!
If I were is your position I would feel the same way. IMHO, this falls on your shop. Based on what your posting, I am guessing it is not on the approved list of installers. Thanks for posting this.
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Old 04-13-2017, 08:11 AM   #17
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Specifying "LN" is not enough!......has a 4 year, 50k mile service life.
Seriously?
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Old 04-13-2017, 08:18 AM   #18
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These intervals that they put on those parts are interesting. Guess my factory original IMS on my 01 has the longer service interval IMS installed. Cool!
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Old 04-13-2017, 08:20 AM   #19
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Seriously?
Only relevant compared to the 6 year 75k service life of the bearing that could have been installed
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Old 04-13-2017, 08:24 AM   #20
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If I were is your position I would feel the same way. IMHO, this falls on your shop. Based on what your posting, I am guessing it is not on the approved list of installers. Thanks for posting this.
I disagree. The shop did as they were told - they installed an LN bearing just like the customer asked.
In the vast majority of shops, clients go in and ask them to replace the brakes, or change the oil. No where does the shop ever check into what oil the client wants or what pads to use....most just use the oem recommended.
If you want something specific, you have to ask for it.

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