04-12-2017, 12:15 PM
|
#1
|
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: MD
Posts: 268
|
IMS Bearing -- Be careful when specifying a replacement
Specifying "LN" is not enough!
Make sure that when you have an IMS replacement bearing installed that your shop installs the updated bearing from LN Engineering. The "Classic Single Row," which I was surprised to learn is still sold, has a 4 year, 50k mile service life. The newer upgraded part, the "Single Row Pro" has a 6 year, 75k mileservice life. The "Pro" was introduced circa 2013-14. They both have the same retail price.
According to LN, the reason they continue to sell the Classic is that some (many?) shops want to continue using their existing installation tools and not make the outlay on new tools.
I knew enough to specify that i wanted an LN bearing installed. I didn't know that two versions of that bearing that fit my engine were being sold and installed, and that one was markedly inferior to the other.
The "Classic" that fits my engine has a part number of 100124200
The Single Row Pro has a part number of 106-08.2.2
If you go to the LN web site you come away with the impression that all you need to do is decide whether or not to spend the $ for their "Solution" product or just decide on LN and have your shop decide on the right part for your specific engine. Single or Dual row bearing, notably. Not a mention on that page that the "Classic" is still being sold and installed. In fact, if you go to the LN site and search for "Classic Single Row" the only hit you get is for a tool to install that product. You get no hits when searcing for the classic product by part number either (although that could be a function of how they format it). But its as if LN doesn't want consumers to know the old product exists and is still being sold.
Not a happy camper -- with either the shop that installed it or the company that made it.
Carlos
2003 Boxster S
Last edited by Cbonilla; 04-12-2017 at 01:02 PM.
|
|
|
04-12-2017, 02:16 PM
|
#2
|
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: It's a kind of magic.....
Posts: 6,539
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cbonilla
Specifying "LN" is not enough!
Not a happy camper -- with either the shop that installed it or the company that made it.
|
You may be correct to be unhappy that you did not ask the correct questions of the shop that did the installation, but LN sells what their customer's (primarily installers) want and ask for. Yes, a lot of shops do not want to pop for the Faultless Tools, which is to their and their customer's detriment as the Faultless Tool make every install quicker and less problem prone, particularly on single row cars. We have both tool sets, and the one everyone in the shop reaches for is the Faultless Tool, it is that much better.
__________________
“Anything really new is invented only in one’s youth. Later, one becomes more experienced, more famous – and more stupid.” - Albert Einstein
|
|
|
04-12-2017, 02:33 PM
|
#3
|
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: MD
Posts: 268
|
In a partial defense, I thought I had done my homework. From the LN site it seemed that there was just one bearing that would fit my car (other than the "Solution"). It was either a single row or a double row LN bearing, depending on my engine. Little did I know that LN was building the Classic on special order and had no mention of them on their website. Thus I felt safe in just specifyng "LN"
On a related question, in a conversation with LN I learned that I should have had a sticker applied attesting to the install having been performed. It's nowhere on my car. What should I ask of my installer? Would you view this as a concern?
Carlos
Last edited by Cbonilla; 04-12-2017 at 02:58 PM.
|
|
|
04-12-2017, 04:24 PM
|
#4
|
Motorist & Coffee Drinker
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 3,880
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cbonilla
...On a related question, in a conversation with LN I learned that I should have had a sticker applied attesting to the install having been performed. It's nowhere on my car. What should I ask of my installer? Would you view this as a concern?
Carlos
|
I have heard of the stickers being put in several different locations. Call and ask the shop. Mine is on the driver's door. It was also clearly/fully documented on my invoice.
If there is no sticker, do you really have any proof of what was (or wasn't) installed? Do you have a legitimate warranty?
__________________
I am not an attorney, mechanic, or member of the clergy. Following any advice given in my posts is done at your own peril.
|
|
|
04-12-2017, 05:14 PM
|
#5
|
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: It's a kind of magic.....
Posts: 6,539
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cbonilla
In a partial defense, I thought I had done my homework. From the LN site it seemed that there was just one bearing that would fit my car (other than the "Solution"). It was either a single row or a double row LN bearing, depending on my engine. Little did I know that LN was building the Classic on special order and had no mention of them on their website. Thus I felt safe in just specifyng "LN"
On a related question, in a conversation with LN I learned that I should have had a sticker applied attesting to the install having been performed. It's nowhere on my car. What should I ask of my installer? Would you view this as a concern?
Carlos
|
It is the only visible confirmation of the install on the car, I would say it is very important.
__________________
“Anything really new is invented only in one’s youth. Later, one becomes more experienced, more famous – and more stupid.” - Albert Einstein
|
|
|
04-12-2017, 07:25 PM
|
#6
|
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: North Eastern US
Posts: 646
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cbonilla
. . . On a related question, in a conversation with LN I learned that I should have had a sticker applied attesting to the install having been performed. It's nowhere on my car. What should I ask of my installer? Would you view this as a concern?. . .
|
My LN sticker is on the drivers door. LN sends a sticker set to the installer along with the IMSB. One of the stickers is returned to LN with the install info and the other is placed on the car.
Prior to purchase, I confirmed with LN that my PO had a LN single row classic installed on my 2004 986 in 2016 per the LN serial number on my door sticker (I also have the shop invoice - $799 for the classic IMSB). Many shops that don't want to spend the money for the faultless tool opt to install the LN ceramic single row. I'm perfectly comfortable with the fact that I have the classic single row. If I decide to keep the 986 for the long term, I'll probably have 'the solution' installed at the next clutch change, but I'm not worried about the longevity of the classic single row in the least. I knew of the LN 'pro' and 'classic' offerings due to my research prior to purchase. The only reason I will go with the 'solution' the next time around (if I still have the car in 4 years) is because it is a 550 Anniversary Edition in excellent condition.
I would definitely demand proof of install and the LN serial number from your installer. It's SOP to supply this info to the client after the install and IMHO it is suspect that your car does not have the sticker w/serial number.
Your situation appears to stem from a lack of information / feedback / guidance provided to you by your installer rather than any misdirection by LN. LN is very clear in their literature regarding the Classic vs Pro (or at least they were when I did my research in Jan 2017).
__________________
Rgds, Fred
#317 550 Spyder Anniversary Edition 2004 Boxster S, 3.8L Flat Six Innovations engine, PSS9s, etc, etc . . .
The contents of my posts are for entertainment only. As confirmed by my many motor sports fails, I am not qualified to give product endorsements or mechanical advice
Last edited by Oldcarguy; 04-12-2017 at 08:33 PM.
|
|
|
04-12-2017, 09:23 PM
|
#7
|
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: santa barbara, CA & Devon, UK
Posts: 316
|
I have the LN sticker on the edge of my drivers door (similar to 78F350's photo) and also there should be a sticker on the shop/installers invoice. It seems very strange if you do not have them - LN make this a very important part of the IMS replacement process.
|
|
|
04-13-2017, 03:39 AM
|
#8
|
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: MD
Posts: 268
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by njbray
I have the LN sticker on the edge of my drivers door (similar to 78F350's photo) and also there should be a sticker on the shop/installers invoice. It seems very strange if you do not have them - LN make this a very important part of the IMS replacement process.
|
That will be part of my discussion with the shop today
|
|
|
04-13-2017, 06:03 AM
|
#9
|
2003 S, Arctic Silver, M6
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Winnipeg, MB, Canada
Posts: 1,346
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by njbray
I have the LN sticker on the edge of my drivers door (similar to 78F350's photo) and also there should be a sticker on the shop/installers invoice. It seems very strange if you do not have them - LN make this a very important part of the IMS replacement process.
|
+1 My sticker is on the inside of the rear trunk lid and one on the actual shop invoice.
|
|
|
04-13-2017, 03:38 AM
|
#10
|
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: MD
Posts: 268
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldcarguy
Your situation appears to stem from a lack of information / feedback / guidance provided to you by your installer rather than any misdirection by LN. LN is very clear in their literature regarding the Classic vs Pro (or at least they were when I did my research in Jan 2017).
|
I'm not disputing that LN was very clear in their instructions to the installer regarding the IMS bearings. But I still disagree with LN holding themselves out as the brand name to ask for while not making it clear to the ultimate consumer that simply asking for an LN bearing was not necessarily going to get them the advertised product.
|
|
|
04-13-2017, 05:45 AM
|
#11
|
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: North Eastern US
Posts: 646
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cbonilla
I'm not disputing that LN was very clear in their instructions to the installer regarding the IMS bearings. But I still disagree with LN holding themselves out as the brand name to ask for while not making it clear to the ultimate consumer that simply asking for an LN bearing was not necessarily going to get them the advertised product.
|
Hi Carlos, I understand your frustration. Out of curiosity I just checked the LN website and current product PDF. While the LN product page and PDF no longer have a picture of the classic IMSB or show it in the products for sale as they did in January 2017, it is still listed on both their website and in the PDF - "Also available (not shown) Classic Single Row IMS and 06-08 IMS upgrade".
Good luck with your discussion with the shop that did the install, I hope they can at least assure you have a real LN bearing and that it can still be registered with LN.
__________________
Rgds, Fred
#317 550 Spyder Anniversary Edition 2004 Boxster S, 3.8L Flat Six Innovations engine, PSS9s, etc, etc . . .
The contents of my posts are for entertainment only. As confirmed by my many motor sports fails, I am not qualified to give product endorsements or mechanical advice
Last edited by Oldcarguy; 04-13-2017 at 05:55 AM.
|
|
|
04-12-2017, 04:44 PM
|
#12
|
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Sanford NC
Posts: 2,567
|
It doesn't help that Porsche has multiple generations nor that LN has multiple products for some generations and with similar names. SKU is the identifier you are looking to ask for, the stock keeping unit or product number.
A shop that has invested hundreds of dollars in tools is reluctant to replace them. No kidding.
But this thread is a useful reminder that you have to be very specific when asking for something. Reminds me I owe my landscaper a written specification before he does his work so we both know what we expect.
|
|
|
04-12-2017, 04:49 PM
|
#13
|
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: MD
Posts: 268
|
At the time it was installed as part of an engine replacement my shop said that since it was just a 30 day warranty it wasn't worth the trouble of registering the warranty To the best of my knowledge all I have is a receipt from my shop with the part number written in as part of the invoice. Clearly I need to talk to my shop, but was curious as to how the community views my lack of documentation. I sent them an email at the end of the day and will call them tomorrow
Last edited by Cbonilla; 04-12-2017 at 04:59 PM.
|
|
|
04-12-2017, 04:53 PM
|
#14
|
Artist, 986S tinkerer
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Montreal, Canada
Posts: 1,821
|
In the OPs defence, every Porsche enthusiast is aware of the imsb issue. Most even know that LN is the go-to brand for a replacement. Some know that there are different flavors of imsb, pro, solution, etc. Not too many are aware that there is still the single row "classic" bearing still offered by LN ( and apparently sold by Pelican?) which may be installed by your shop. Not that there is anything wrong with that bearing actually. But, as always, it's a case of caveat emptor.
__________________
James now has: 2008 987S 6 speed
Crashed: 2010 987.2 pdk in speed yellow! 
Sold to a cool racer chick: 2004 986 S
YouTube channel: the PORSCHE as seen by NewArt
www.youtube.com/channel/UCohdrH2xHTklM1thxk0KKOQ?
|
|
|
04-12-2017, 05:15 PM
|
#15
|
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: MD
Posts: 268
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewArt
Not that there is anything wrong with that bearing actually. But, as always, it's a case of caveat emptor.
|
Except that its service life is only2/3 that of the comparably priced Pro version.
And I've already stated that I thought I had covered my bases by only specifying LN when their web site made no mention of the classic still being sold
Last edited by Cbonilla; 04-12-2017 at 05:31 PM.
|
|
|
04-13-2017, 07:02 AM
|
#16
|
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Agoura Hills (LA) So.Cal.
Posts: 1,574
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cbonilla
Specifying "LN" is not enough!
|
If I were is your position I would feel the same way. IMHO, this falls on your shop. Based on what your posting, I am guessing it is not on the approved list of installers. Thanks for posting this.
__________________
1995 Porsche C4 Cab
2016 BMW M2, 6 Speed LBB - ED 7/2016
1997 993 Cab - Sold; 1997 993 Turbo - Sold
2001 Boxster S - Original Owner - 30K Miles -SOLD
|
|
|
04-13-2017, 07:24 AM
|
#17
|
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Listowel, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1,120
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck W.
If I were is your position I would feel the same way. IMHO, this falls on your shop. Based on what your posting, I am guessing it is not on the approved list of installers. Thanks for posting this.
|
I disagree. The shop did as they were told - they installed an LN bearing just like the customer asked.
In the vast majority of shops, clients go in and ask them to replace the brakes, or change the oil. No where does the shop ever check into what oil the client wants or what pads to use....most just use the oem recommended.
If you want something specific, you have to ask for it.
__________________
2011 Boxster 987.2 Arctic silver / Black leather, PDK with Sports Chrono Package Plus
|
|
|
04-13-2017, 09:09 AM
|
#18
|
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: MD
Posts: 268
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Giller
I disagree. The shop did as they were told - they installed an LN bearing just like the customer asked.
In the vast majority of shops, clients go in and ask them to replace the brakes, or change the oil. No where does the shop ever check into what oil the client wants or what pads to use....most just use the oem recommended.
If you want something specific, you have to ask for it.
|
Disagree. I go to a shop to get advice. When I specified an LN bearing they, who have more experience and information, could easily have taken the time to lay out my options. They did this when I asked about a water pump with a metal impeller.
|
|
|
04-13-2017, 06:20 PM
|
#19
|
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Listowel, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1,120
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cbonilla
Disagree. I go to a shop to get advice. When I specified an LN bearing they, who have more experience and information, could easily have taken the time to lay out my options. They did this when I asked about a water pump with a metal impeller.
|
Yes, when you ASKED them about a water pump, they discussed it with you. In this case though, it sounds like you went to the shop and said hey, install an LN bearing. So they did. Not much to discuss - maybe they didn't even know there were multiple options themselves? You didn't know, maybe they didn't either.
__________________
2011 Boxster 987.2 Arctic silver / Black leather, PDK with Sports Chrono Package Plus
|
|
|
04-13-2017, 07:11 AM
|
#20
|
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: St. Petersburg, Florida
Posts: 343
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cbonilla
Specifying "LN" is not enough!......has a 4 year, 50k mile service life.
|
Seriously?
__________________
1998 Porsche Boxster - Ocean Jade Metallic
1985 Porsche Carrera Targa - Guards Red
1978 Porsche 911SC Euro Non-Sunroof - Grand Prix White
|
|
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is On
|
|
|
All times are GMT -8. The time now is 03:23 PM.
| |